Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

+2 And my 33 ACT sits on a WL at Syracuse

For which college?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

She is white and her parents went to college. Is no one listening to VT admissions when they say they are trying to fill their school with 1st gen & URM students?

I understand. I was responding to the PP that said VT was a safety if your kid has a high test score.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

She is white and her parents went to college. Is no one listening to VT admissions when they say they are trying to fill their school with 1st gen & URM students?

people didn't take them seriously until this year

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

+2 And my 33 ACT sits on a WL at Syracuse

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

She is white and her parents went to college. Is no one listening to VT admissions when they say they are trying to fill their school with 1st gen & URM students?

Anonymous wrote:2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

Great, can you explain why my daughter with a 35 ACT (99th percentile) currently sits on the VT waitlist?

PP really knows nothing about admissions.

2.2 million HS class of 2020 students took the SAT: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

A 1500 puts you in the 98 percentile: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf

Even if the top 15-20 universities (us news university rankings) accepted only those with 1500 or higher there are simply not enough enrollment slots to accommodate everyone based on that score alone.

The seemingly random nature of admissions for top students with high scores occurs because often those same students tend to have similarly high GPAs. If you can’t just rely on SATs and GPAs to fill out every enrollment slot at the top schools then you are left muddling through soft factors and other random activities that might catch and admissions counselors eye.

The top 10 elite universities should be considered reaches for all but a select few. Most DCUM DC are probably not one of these select few no matter how great we think they are. A “safety” school for someone with the stats that are generally competitive for HYS isn’t Penn, Brown, Duke, Williams or even Amherst. Those are elite schools that draw a large pool of elite applicants.

And you can’t simply go down the list to the 3rd or 4th top ranked liberal arts schools and say that is a “safety” based on SAT alone. That is because you aren’t the first genius to think of that and because they are so tiny. Colby has a first year enrollment of only 500! They have a vested interest and the time to try to create a class of admits who will actually attend and achieve the perfect harmony of interests they envision for that year.

A true safety (guaranteed admit) for someone in DMV would be a school like VT or College Park. Schools where they really should get in are those with bigger class sizes like UVA or a Georgetown.

It’s not rocket science if you are realistic in your expectations.

A school that yield protects is not a safety. Put it in the low match category instead and hope for an early acceptance, if they offer EA or rolling admission.

I think it's easier to consider this as yield management. The problem this year is that the yield algorithms really went out the window. If a college thinks a high-stats student is too unlikely to attend, that calculation in most cases was based on data from prior years - unfair to the applicant and a mistake by the enrollment management consultant, but I think this has happened all over the place this year. It's unfortunate the extent to which an algorithmic yield plays a role in an individual applicant's admission decision.

My kid got lucky, admitted EA to a school that could have yield protected him, with his stats being way over their 75th percentile - its acceptance rate is in the 40s (or was) if I recall, prime area for yield protection. He is leaning toward choosing this school for a bunch of different reasons, including the nice merit discount, and the fact that he doesn't expect to get off the waitlists for some higher-ranked options. Some of those waitlists are where his grades were not-quite-good-enough and some of them are yield protection, though the yield protection ones kinda shot themselves in the foot for killing the enthusiasm - he would have probably attended one of those but at this point, getting attached to this other school, he might remove himself from those waitlists.

[quote=Anonymous][quote]Your kidding right. EVERY university has large groups of that caliber of kid? Really? Your kidding yourself. My kid is in and done at her top choice, and I didn’t post specifically about her. But it IS about high stats focused kids and what they are looking for in a college. I’m sorry your kid ain’t one of them. But a high achieving focused child aiming for HYP [b]ain’t ever gonna find a satisfactory group of peers at Monmouth University.[/b] Your N of a few proves absolutely nothing and your assertion is delusional.[/quote]

Define “satisfactory”. If you mean large in number, you may be right. If you mean intelligent, motivated, capable of high caliber work, then you’re misinformed. They may be harder to find but those kids are absolutely at Monmouth, and many other schools you’d probably consider “inferior” for a “high stats” student. I can also tell you that they know the difference between “your” and “you’re, they proofread their work for errors including autocorrections, and they don’t use “ain’t” when trying to make an effective argument.

- former professor (at Monmouth University, among other places)[/quote]

And yet the argument was effective enough to draw you in to respond. Satisfactory = numerous, several, teeming with options, more than just a few, surrounded by peers of the same drive and caliber. The Data set for Monmouth indicates that only 2percent of the 1200 kids score 700-800 in math and reading portions of sat. So that’s like what 44 kids? Out of 1200??? The majority of the students- over 50 percent, scored between 500-600. That’s a stark difference in student profile dontcha think? So make your point, a HYP child should seriously look at Monmouth. Why? So they can hang out with the same 40 people? And that would be enriching .....why exactly?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turning this into a waitlist game of chicken will at sone point backfire on these schools.

This - 100%!

Something has to give. When you have top students (yes, top grades, SAT, extracurriculars, research, internships, etc.) get shut out of all matches and reaches and sit on 5-7 waitlists, it is going to backfire on these schools.

The reality is that all of us have - to some degree - bought into the racket that is the college process. We've encouraged our kids to work their asses off for years, do all the right things, be leaders, excellent in sports, in the classroom and in their communities (all great things by the way). We've encouraged ourselves to save ridiculous amounts of money to fund their educations. The expectation was clear: do these things and you will have qualified for admission to an elite institution (and you'll have the opportunity to pay 80k/year for the experience). This year, that expectation was blown up.

If the schools want to upend that process and set new expectations, fine, but they should be prepared for it to backfire. Maybe upper middle class families who have saved for decades to pay for the dream of elite schools decide it isn't worth 80k /year to be jerked around like this. Maybe more will decide that the state school is just fine for undergrad.(It's one thing to pay the 80k for a top school, quite another for a safety.)

I have been reading this forum for years. And every year there are kids who are "shut out." Usually they were ill-advised or stubborn and made bad lists (no true safeties or did not show interest in their safeties, had an outdated idea of admissions standards, etc). Occasionally there is a fluke of bad luck. But the private school parents always post in terror, because they did not know this was possible. It really does happen every year people. (But admittedly, COVID had impacted the past two admissions seasons.)

I can only tell you the parents of younger kids to encourage your child to build a good list. Help them find a school that admits most students that they would be happy to attend. There really are many strong ones, but you have to let go of being so status-driven. Find places that offer a solid education and where your kid will thrive as they go through their last stage of growing up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turning this into a waitlist game of chicken will at sone point backfire on these schools.

This - 100%!

Something has to give. When you have top students (yes, top grades, SAT, extracurriculars, research, internships, etc.) get shut out of all matches and reaches and sit on 5-7 waitlists, it is going to backfire on these schools.

The reality is that all of us have - to some degree - bought into the racket that is the college process. We've encouraged our kids to work their asses off for years, do all the right things, be leaders, excellent in sports, in the classroom and in their communities (all great things by the way). We've encouraged ourselves to save ridiculous amounts of money to fund their educations. The expectation was clear: do these things and you will have qualified for admission to an elite institution (and you'll have the opportunity to pay 80k/year for the experience). This year, that expectation was blown up.

If the schools want to upend that process and set new expectations, fine, but they should be prepared for it to backfire. Maybe upper middle class families who have saved for decades to pay for the dream of elite schools decide it isn't worth 80k /year to be jerked around like this. Maybe more will decide that the state school is just fine for undergrad.(It's one thing to pay the 80k for a top school, quite another for a safety.)

There are only so many spots at the ivies, and that will never change.

Expectation? Where did you get that from? That mindset is your problem. There are not enough spots at “elite institutions” and it has been that way for a long time. If you set the expectation with your child that they would get in, you messed up. By the way, safeties are supposed to be schools your child could be happy at, not schools to notch your belt with and turn down. It sounds like your child did not pick true safeties because you had a false expectation.

+1

Your kidding right. EVERY university has large groups of that caliber of kid? Really? Your kidding yourself. My kid is in and done at her top choice, and I didn’t post specifically about her. But it IS about high stats focused kids and what they are looking for in a college. I’m sorry your kid ain’t one of them. But a high achieving focused child aiming for HYP ain’t ever gonna find a satisfactory group of peers at Monmouth University. Your N of a few proves absolutely nothing and your assertion is delusional.

Define “satisfactory”. If you mean large in number, you may be right. If you mean intelligent, motivated, capable of high caliber work, then you’re misinformed. They may be harder to find but those kids are absolutely at Monmouth, and many other schools you’d probably consider “inferior” for a “high stats” student. I can also tell you that they know the difference between “your” and “you’re, they proofread their work for errors including autocorrections, and they don’t use “ain’t” when trying to make an effective argument.

- former professor (at Monmouth University, among other places)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turning this into a waitlist game of chicken will at sone point backfire on these schools.

This - 100%!

Something has to give. When you have top students (yes, top grades, SAT, extracurriculars, research, internships, etc.) get shut out of all matches and reaches and sit on 5-7 waitlists, it is going to backfire on these schools.

The reality is that all of us have - to some degree - bought into the racket that is the college process. We've encouraged our kids to work their asses off for years, do all the right things, be leaders, excellent in sports, in the classroom and in their communities (all great things by the way). We've encouraged ourselves to save ridiculous amounts of money to fund their educations. The expectation was clear: do these things and you will have qualified for admission to an elite institution (and you'll have the opportunity to pay 80k/year for the experience). This year, that expectation was blown up.

If the schools want to upend that process and set new expectations, fine, but they should be prepared for it to backfire. Maybe upper middle class families who have saved for decades to pay for the dream of elite schools decide it isn't worth 80k /year to be jerked around like this. Maybe more will decide that the state school is just fine for undergrad.(It's one thing to pay the 80k for a top school, quite another for a safety.)

There are only so many spots at the ivies, and that will never change.

Expectation? Where did you get that from? That mindset is your problem. There are not enough spots at “elite institutions” and it has been that way for a long time. If you set the expectation with your child that they would get in, you messed up. By the way, safeties are supposed to be schools your child could be happy at, not schools to notch your belt with and turn down. It sounds like your child did not pick true safeties because you had a false expectation.

Counselors can’t work the WL for every single student this year. So how do they decide? So many kids barely got into their safeties as OP pointed out.