Anonymous wrote:
That may well be (Basis Arizona is different from Basis DC) but a quick perusal of these stats shows clearly that many students at MoCo magnets and local private schools take the tests at their school. So not all are taking the tests at RSM or AoPS. DCPS does offer the test at a central site (at UDC in the past years, for instance). Even if DCPS kids were taking these tests at AoPS and/or RSM, it would imply that their home school does not offer the tests or if they do, the kids don't do well. Doesn't speak too well for math enrichment (at the extreme tail) in DCPS.

Anyway, your first point is what I am trying to make.

Yep. I would imagine that a 130-ish IQ kid would be fine in any higher performing DCPS or charter. There is enough of a peer group of kids in the bright-moderately gifted range. People with highly gifted kids (145+ IQ) are generally not going to find that their kids are well served in regular public schools. Those kids will end up in public magnet programs or elite privates. Arizona doesn't have many elite privates nor does it have as many strong magnet programs, so the highly gifted kids there still often attend charters.

I can answer this honestly. The answer isn't great though.

Our child thrived in our neighborhood school - a low-SES, Title 1 DCPS - until age 6. Our kid was recognized as having different needs, worked individually with multiple teachers, sent to special classes for certain subjects (for example went up to K while in PK4 for math/reading), and had their needs met academically and emotionally and socially every step of the way by virtue of being surrounded by excellent teachers and a bunch of great kids. ECE in DCPS for us was a heartwarming and valuable experience, and we do not regret sticking with our "underperforming" neighborhood elementary school.

When "real school" started (1st grade) the situation began to change. It was no longer possible to do "special" things to keep our child engaged, motivated, and learning on par with their abilities, and this was complicated by widening divides in the needs of other kids. Skipping a grade didn't sound good to us, and not sure it would have solved all the issues.

When a school focuses on teaching to a test, the bar for what schools want to accomplish moves, and making kids/families feel good and be their best in whatever way is right for them falls far behind making sure all kids can do A, B, and C tasks when it comes time to fill in those bubbles on a scantron. This isn't the teachers' fault: it's just the nature of most public schools today, and when schools serve populations that are going to have trouble with those tested objectives, the target objectives in the classroom necessarily become less advanced and there is not room for structured enrichment. High SES fancy schools don't have to worry about that stuff as much, so yeah, of course, they can serve gifted kids better because there is time/money for all that stuff.

We moved to MD. It felt like a personal failure to leave what had been such a terrific school experience for our kid. It felt like a slap in the face to those educators, and even though many of them told me privately we were doing the right thing, I felt pretty bad. I still do.

Now it's 5 years later and our child has thrived. They've been selected for magnets at each step of the way, and thrived within them, and that's made us feel like we made the best decision for our child in our situation. Was it the best decision for our old community? Nope. It wasn't.

I guess it depends on if your child has a similar cohort and a school that can provide what your kid needs consistently so they don't stagnate and lose interest in school. If they can't do that, and you can afford to move, moving to a school that can do that is ultimately what's best for your kid. But it is pretty bad for communities. That sucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And yet, Basis or any of DCPS or Charter schools has had not a single kid place in the honor rolls etc of any of the AMC competitions. As noted upthread, school environments appear to be important in influencing whether students will reach this very high level. One might argue that kids do not want to take this test. But the really high achieving ones find a way to do so. So it is more than likely that children (at least at this level) do not have access to the types of math needed.

There are plenty of Basis kids in Arizona who are placing on the AMC honor rolls, so it's not the curriculum or access to math that is the deciding factor. I would guess that most people in DC with highly gifted children place them in elite privates, whereas people elsewhere with highly gifted kids might still stick with publics or charters.

One other thing to keep in mind is that children who place on the honor rolls are listed under the school in which they were registered for AMC tests and not the school they attend. If a kid attends a DCPS, but then takes AMC at say RSM or AoPS, that kid's school will be listed on the AMC honor rolls as RSM or AoPS.

That may well be (Basis Arizona is different from Basis DC) but a quick perusal of these stats shows clearly that many students at MoCo magnets and local private schools take the tests at their school. So not all are taking the tests at RSM or AoPS. DCPS does offer the test at a central site (at UDC in the past years, for instance). Even if DCPS kids were taking these tests at AoPS and/or RSM, it would imply that their home school does not offer the tests or if they do, the kids don't do well. Doesn't speak too well for math enrichment (at the extreme tail) in DCPS.

Anyway, your first point is what I am trying to make.

Anonymous wrote:
And yet, Basis or any of DCPS or Charter schools has had not a single kid place in the honor rolls etc of any of the AMC competitions. As noted upthread, school environments appear to be important in influencing whether students will reach this very high level. One might argue that kids do not want to take this test. But the really high achieving ones find a way to do so. So it is more than likely that children (at least at this level) do not have access to the types of math needed.

There are plenty of Basis kids in Arizona who are placing on the AMC honor rolls, so it's not the curriculum or access to math that is the deciding factor. I would guess that most people in DC with highly gifted children place them in elite privates, whereas people elsewhere with highly gifted kids might still stick with publics or charters.

One other thing to keep in mind is that children who place on the honor rolls are listed under the school in which they were registered for AMC tests and not the school they attend. If a kid attends a DCPS, but then takes AMC at say RSM or AoPS, that kid's school will be listed on the AMC honor rolls as RSM or AoPS.

I used the term gifted to describe my child with the 130 IQ because it’s the term the neuropsychologist used to describe her based on comprehensive testing. (Her verbal comprehension score was actually much higher, but some learning weaknesses in other areas brought down her full scale IQ.)

But I agree that in a city like DC she merely comes across as “smart.” Lots of kids like her.

Anonymous wrote:I agree there is a difference between smart and "gifted". For better or for worse "gifted" kids are out there, and it is valid for parents to wonder if their educational needs are being met. While many more parents think of their kids as "gifted" when they may be "smart", the question of what to do with the "gifted" ones is still valid. "Gifted" is indeed an unfortunate word, because every child is gifted in their own way, and every child can succeed. At Basis, for example, all children have access to the type of math you describe.

And yet, Basis or any of DCPS or Charter schools has had not a single kid place in the honor rolls etc of any of the AMC competitions. As noted upthread, school environments appear to be important in influencing whether students will reach this very high level. One might argue that kids do not want to take this test. But the really high achieving ones find a way to do so. So it is more than likely that children (at least at this level) do not have access to the types of math needed.

I agree there is a difference between smart and "gifted". For better or for worse "gifted" kids are out there, and it is valid for parents to wonder if their educational needs are being met. While many more parents think of their kids as "gifted" when they may be "smart", the question of what to do with the "gifted" ones is still valid. "Gifted" is indeed an unfortunate word, because every child is gifted in their own way, and every child can succeed. At Basis, for example, all children have access to the type of math you describe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is so interesting. Gifted children only exist in high performing schools.

No. Gifted kids are in struggling schools too. But a peer group with lots of gifted kids will be at high performing schools. One’s cohort matters.

Then are they really gifted?

Yes. DC has lots of kids with IQs in the 130 range clustered in high-performing schools. That’s because there are so many parents educated at elite schools in this city.

My child with the 130 IQ (based on a test while in 3rd grade) has always done well relative to most peers, but has also never been something “that special” because she’s always gone to school with other bright kids. It doesn’t mean she’s not gifted. She’s just not profoundly so.

As it happens my husband and I both have grad degrees from HYP, which is also not super unusual among the parent group.

Not all kids are as bright as their parents but there’s a correlation.

I’m sure if I move to many other parts of the country my child would stick out more. In DC she’s just one on many gifted kids. (Her grades are fabulous at Basis, but she actually has to work for them.)

Unless OP has a profoundly gifted child, DC’s high-performing public schools will be fine.

I don't know that I would agree that anyone is gifted "because" they went to elite schools, but I would say that I think DC is Lake Woebegoneish in having a very high proportion of gifted students because so many people who have high IQs end up here for their jobs and their children's IQs are correlated with theirs.

I also appreciate that the poster called out that there are different levels and varieties of "gifted". It is something of a technical term (commonly scores at or above 130 on an IQ test), and there are many possible permutations in terms of strengths, weaknesses, and degrees. I believe IQ tests aren't considered particularly valid until the age of 8-9 or so, so it can be difficult to tell with the PK and K set.

One of my kids has done neuropsych testing because of learning difficulties. Her scores are on the cusp of "gifted" with a lot of variability due to a learning disability. But she had many, many peers at her EOTP school who seemed as bright or much more so.

Anonymous wrote:My "gifted" child was fine in elementary school. Elementary school is very basic wherever you go. I think language immersion would have been a good option for her. Yes sometimes she complained of boredom, but teachers made little adjustments. Parts of the class read more advanced books and she got exempt from spelling. One family I know advanced their child one grade and appreciate this approach. In Middle School it is more complicated. A lot of children struggle with math, and the accelerated math class where she goes is overkill with hours of boring repetitive apps. Their rationale is that if you have the privilege of accelerated math you have to work extra hard, but the result is that she is still bored, but now also hates math from doing the same thing over and over again. For the moment the middle school is not a great fit. When it works well the classes are engaging and encourage her to put out more effort.

My smart kid is being challenged in math at Deal. The school tests placement tests kids each year and my kid was able to take Algebra 1 in 6th and is currently in Algebra 2 in 8th with an outstanding teacher. Kid is going on to a private high school and was admitted to Sidwell, GDS etc. This is another kid who
scored 99% in the city on the PARCC each year and 98%+ at their JKLM school and Deal. But there's no way I would say this kid is "gifted". To me, gifted is taking pre-calc in 4th grade. This kid is smart and articulate but no more so than 100 other DC kids I know.

My "gifted" child was fine in elementary school. Elementary school is very basic wherever you go. I think language immersion would have been a good option for her. Yes sometimes she complained of boredom, but teachers made little adjustments. Parts of the class read more advanced books and she got exempt from spelling. One family I know advanced their child one grade and appreciate this approach. In Middle School it is more complicated. A lot of children struggle with math, and the accelerated math class where she goes is overkill with hours of boring repetitive apps. Their rationale is that if you have the privilege of accelerated math you have to work extra hard, but the result is that she is still bored, but now also hates math from doing the same thing over and over again. For the moment the middle school is not a great fit. When it works well the classes are engaging and encourage her to put out more effort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is so interesting. Gifted children only exist in high performing schools.

No. Gifted kids are in struggling schools too. But a peer group with lots of gifted kids will be at high performing schools. One’s cohort matters.

Then are they really gifted?

Yes. DC has lots of kids with IQs in the 130 range clustered in high-performing schools. That’s because there are so many parents educated at elite schools in this city.

My child with the 130 IQ (based on a test while in 3rd grade) has always done well relative to most peers, but has also never been something “that special” because she’s always gone to school with other bright kids. It doesn’t mean she’s not gifted. She’s just not profoundly so.

As it happens my husband and I both have grad degrees from HYP, which is also not super unusual among the parent group.

Not all kids are as bright as their parents but there’s a correlation.

I’m sure if I move to many other parts of the country my child would stick out more. In DC she’s just one on many gifted kids. (Her grades are fabulous at Basis, but she actually has to work for them.)

Unless OP has a profoundly gifted child, DC’s high-performing public schools will be fine.

I have been pushing reading HP w my DC because I want to read it again and enjoy it with them. I know they are years away but was hoping to push some interest.

A friend has a gifted child (really gifted) and she finished HP and understood it. She spent all her time watching the movie and complaining where they got it wrong and showing her tired parents in the text. She goes to a regular PS. As the child loves to read and is way above grade level they got her a kindle and library card. They wouldn’t have done or other than for the pandemic and daily trips to the library are hard

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is so interesting. Gifted children only exist in high performing schools.

No. Gifted kids are in struggling schools too. But a peer group with lots of gifted kids will be at high performing schools. One’s cohort matters.

Then are they really gifted?

Anonymous wrote:DC is so interesting. Gifted children only exist in high performing schools.

No. Gifted kids are in struggling schools too. But a peer group with lots of gifted kids will be at high performing schools. One’s cohort matters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a teacher in DCPS for 15 years. I teach at the JKLM (this is for the racists out there who believe only smart kids exist at a JKLM). I've taught lots of bright kids. Kids reading several levels above grade expectation; can do "challenging math", were probably early talkers as infants and have great vocabulary. Out of all of those students, I've had exactly one truly gifted student- the kind of kid you remember 13 years later. Could beat adults in chess and was a classical pianist at the age of 5. Could decode any college level text I put in front of him. The parents didn't worry about challenging him academically- they wanted him to have a normal childhood and to have friends his age.

The point in mentioning this kid? Every year I get parents who want to talk about their exceptional child because the kid can read Harry Potter in 1st grade and are bored with Zearn. If your child is freakishly exceptional- the teacher will say something about it like suggest testing (RARELY HAPPENS- again, one kid in my entire career). Also, most parents who think their kid is exceptional don't realize their child has other deficits- usually social/emotional stuff .

NP. Your example is nice, and your point is well taken, that kids with an FSIQ of 130 might not be 'that' kind of gifted, but those kids DO need that their parents worry about challenging them academically, more so than the chess genius example you described. They need to keep learning, and not learn to be bored in class.
Other than wishing those parents would realize their kid who reads Harry Potter in 1st and is bored with Zearn isn't a truly gifted child, do you give them reading and math at a level they will benefit from, or do you just shrug that they'll be fine? If there truly are that many kids reading HP in 1st, why don't you teach those kids at their level, instead of insisting on picture books with 10 words a page, and some more Zearn, until they check out? I hear of differentiation, I have heard teachers say "differentiation is what we do" year after year, but on the ground, what they do is shutting up the parents, and not differentiating anything.

NP. Why are parents giving HP to their 1st grader? Why the need to rush things? They only have so many days when they will read picture books and the rest of their whole tween-teen years when they can read HP. I think parents are losing the chance to foster kids' imagination by skipping over "easier" books. So many people I know boast about how their kids zoom through math workbooks ahead of their grade. Why do that? If they are willing to do the work, why don't you give your kids depth of knowledge and teach them logic or some such other math subject? I think parents who think their kids are gifted because they read or do math 2 grades above their current class are bonkers. Like PP said, a teacher will contact you if there truly is something going on.

I absolutely agree with this. Kids who are pushed this way in early elementary often end up rebelling later in life.

Some kids just really like to read without being pushed. If you have older cousins you will get hand-me-down books and your kids will naturally take an interest in their cousins' possessions.