Anonymous wrote:Elections need to _look_ secure, as well as to actually _be_ secure. Many would feel more comfortable in accepting election outcomes if minimal efforts were made to provide for election security. Requiring identification from voters is one such step that could be taken. It makes sense to me.

It is my understanding that very few people do not have some form of government-issued identification. As noted above, it is virtually necessary for one to exist in modern society. That said, we should provide valid voter identification cards for free to those who do not have some other form of government-issued identification and give those people some time to obtain such identification before it is actually required.

What would be the objection to this?

The entire motive here is racist. Very simple!!

Anonymous wrote:You need ID to cash a check.
You need ID to buy alcohol.
You need ID to buy tobacco.
You need ID to buy a gun.
You need ID to get into many govt buildings.
You need ID to get onto secure federal property.
You need ID to rent or buy an apartment or home.
You need ID to get on a plane.
You need ID to get a library card.
You need ID to buy a fishing license.
You need ID to open a bank account.
You need ID to receive govt benefits like WIC and EBT.
You need ID to apply for a job.
You need ID to buy or rent a car.
You need ID to go into any school building in the country.
You need ID to get medical treatment.
You need ID to apply to colleges.
You need ID to get into a many bars/clubs.
You need ID to get into many community centers / pools


But voting doesn’t require an ID.




If you oppose a law requiring showing an ID in order to vote, then you are for voter fraud. There is no other plausible reason.

BS. If you need a license to drive, then you need a license to buy and own a gun.

Anonymous wrote:

There is NO PROOF that people are voting illegally en masse. It's not happening.

Does not matter, 40% don't believe in logic or scientific reasoning

Get the FEDERAL government behind issuing and paying all costs to get everyone a valid photo ID. It could be the US passport which is a federal document and is recognized everywhere.
How much could this cost? Say that 11% of eligible voters don't have ID. That's about 25 million persons. Assume a maximum cost of $1000 per person (probably much less since public employees would be doing all the work and no private attorneys)

So, at most 25 billion dollars and this is settled once and for all. A trifle amount given what's at stake and the trillions that are being spent now because of COVID.

Because they’ve been fed lies by Trump and his bootlickers...

Anonymous wrote:You need ID to cash a check.
You need ID to buy alcohol.
You need ID to buy tobacco.
You need ID to buy a gun.
You need ID to get into many govt buildings.
You need ID to get onto secure federal property.
You need ID to rent or buy an apartment or home.
You need ID to get on a plane.
You need ID to get a library card.
You need ID to buy a fishing license.
You need ID to open a bank account.
You need ID to receive govt benefits like WIC and EBT.
You need ID to apply for a job.
You need ID to buy or rent a car.
You need ID to go into any school building in the country.
You need ID to get medical treatment.
You need ID to apply to colleges.
You need ID to get into a many bars/clubs.
You need ID to get into many community centers / pools


But voting doesn’t require an ID.




If you oppose a law requiring showing an ID in order to vote, then you are for voter fraud. There is no other plausible reason.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that many people do very few of those things.
I just went to the dentist. They know me by name, sight, and even by my voice. No ID needed. I don’t drink, smoke or own a gun — that cuts your list down considerably. I’ve had one of my bank accounts since I was six, and even then I realized that many people could not afford to have bank accounts.

TLDR: Your lengthy list really doesn’t support your conclusion. If you think it does, you either need to work on your critical thinking skills, or you are for voter disenfranchisement. There is no other plausible reason. See how that works?

There is NO PROOF that people are voting illegally en masse. It's not happening.

Does not matter, 40% don't believe in logic or scientific reasoning

Get the FEDERAL government behind issuing and paying all costs to get everyone a valid photo ID. It could be the US passport which is a federal document and is recognized everywhere.
How much could this cost? Say that 11% of eligible voters don't have ID. That's about 25 million persons. Assume a maximum cost of $1000 per person (probably much less since public employees would be doing all the work and no private attorneys)

So, at most 25 billion dollars and this is settled once and for all. A trifle amount given what's at stake and the trillions that are being spent now because of COVID.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why didn’t I need to show ID to vote until the mid 2000’s?

I voted for decades without showing an ID, it was no problem.

What changed?

Illegal immigration en masse became a thing.

There is NO PROOF that people are voting illegally en masse. It's not happening.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need ID to cash a check.
You need ID to buy alcohol.
You need ID to buy tobacco.
You need ID to buy a gun.
You need ID to get into many govt buildings.
You need ID to get onto secure federal property.
You need ID to rent or buy an apartment or home.
You need ID to get on a plane.
You need ID to get a library card.
You need ID to buy a fishing license.
You need ID to open a bank account.
You need ID to receive govt benefits like WIC and EBT.
You need ID to apply for a job.
You need ID to buy or rent a car.
You need ID to go into any school building in the country.
You need ID to get medical treatment.
You need ID to apply to colleges.
You need ID to get into a many bars/clubs.
You need ID to get into many community centers / pools


But voting doesn’t require an ID.




If you oppose a law requiring showing an ID in order to vote, then you are for voter fraud. There is no other plausible reason.

Voting is a right, not a privilege. Furthermore, where is any evidence that there is even voter fraud to begin with? This is just a new way to disenfranchise black people.

How many black people don't have a state issued ID? And why can't they get one if they currently don't have one?

1) because their parents didn't get them one when they were younger; lost birth certificate along the way
2) replacement birth certificate costs money; how can you obtain if you don't have proof of ID - circular problem
3) over the years, as a means of suppression, the places where one can get an ID are more remote, requiring a car, or if lucky, multiple bus rides to get there

If you are asking these questions, then you have never experienced the hurdles in place by majority culture in southern states, or Ohio, which has been egregious in these efforts.

Could we create mobile DMV units to go into communities and help people get IDs, file for birth certificates, etc.?

Yes we could, but we aren't. The goal isn't election security because that isn't actually a problem. The goal is voter suppression, because POC are beginning to have the numbers to shift elections and the GOP can't win in a fair fight.

Anonymous wrote:Why didn’t I need to show ID to vote until the mid 2000’s?

I voted for decades without showing an ID, it was no problem.

What changed?

Illegal immigration en masse became a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every state has a different law about what counts as ID to vote.

And the FACT is that even an state ID (not drivers license) these days is hard to get. Due to COVID waits in my state for an appointment is 4 months. There are no walk in spots.

People who are poor, or elderly, or disabled will struggle mightily to get them even in though they have the RIGHT to vote.

Beyond the appointment you need the fresh paperwork. Elderly people may no longer have access to a birth certificate at all... they may not have been issued one or their courthouse may have burned down. Disabled people who live in group homes or those in nursing homes don't have the transportation to go apply. They may have had valid IDs at one point, but they have expired.

I have friends in Florida who work with a charity that helps people get IDs. They say you won't believe how hard it can be for some people to be able to locate their paperwork.

The GOP is afraid and evil.

Voting is a right. And they want to take it away from the "wrong" people.

The fact is?

All I can say is that you must have a tough life if you think getting a valid ID is "hard."

What kind of adult doesn't have any valid ID in the 21st century?

OMG, how can educated people be so privileged that they refuse to understand reality! Every American is not an able body, young, educated, not-poor person living in DMV suburb. There are many who do not enjoy the privilege you take granted for!

I know right? And yeah, I bet people who live in rural areas without cars do have tough lives. I bet people who can’t afford to have a birth certificate replaced so they can get ID do have tough lives. I bet people who can’t afford to take a day off work from either of their 2 (or more) jobs to get to the DMV or whichever office they need to go to for documents after they’ve jumped over other hurdles has a hard life. I bet people who can’t open bank accounts and don’t have easy access to healthcare do have hard lives. I bet their parents had hard lives too and have similar issues with documents. Heaven help you if yours is lost or stolen and needs replacement. I bet their kids also have hard lives, and good luck to them getting an ID if their birth certificate was lost in a move or because mom and dad don’t have bank accounts/safe deposit boxes to keep documents in.

Think about all the difficulties you face in your life, and imagine how you’d handle them if you didn’t have a car, disposable income, or ID to help you solve them. Now stop wasting your time thinking about things you can’t solve because you’re late for your second job and the bus is behind schedule, so you need to haul a$$ 13 blocks to the restaurant where you wait tables or you’re going to get fired, and you need those tips to afford diapers or soap or feminine hygiene products or get the electric bill caught up just enough so they won’t shut it off because your (latchkey) kid needs electricity to do virtual school.

It’s almost like PP is about to get the concept, then they revert back to some sort of pull yourself up by your bootstraps or election fraud nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:Why didn’t I need to show ID to vote until the mid 2000’s?

I voted for decades without showing an ID, it was no problem.

What changed?

The influence of the Republican Party. You also may have benefited from the now-gutted Voting Rights Act.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every state has a different law about what counts as ID to vote.

And the FACT is that even an state ID (not drivers license) these days is hard to get. Due to COVID waits in my state for an appointment is 4 months. There are no walk in spots.

People who are poor, or elderly, or disabled will struggle mightily to get them even in though they have the RIGHT to vote.

Beyond the appointment you need the fresh paperwork. Elderly people may no longer have access to a birth certificate at all... they may not have been issued one or their courthouse may have burned down. Disabled people who live in group homes or those in nursing homes don't have the transportation to go apply. They may have had valid IDs at one point, but they have expired.

I have friends in Florida who work with a charity that helps people get IDs. They say you won't believe how hard it can be for some people to be able to locate their paperwork.

The GOP is afraid and evil.

Voting is a right. And they want to take it away from the "wrong" people.

The fact is?

All I can say is that you must have a tough life if you think getting a valid ID is "hard."

What kind of adult doesn't have any valid ID in the 21st century?

Is it really a surprise to you that many many people in this country have very tough lives?
Or even not so tough lives but difficult to solve obstacles.
One that stands out is that a commonly accepted form of ID is a driver’s license or non-driver’s ID issued by the DMV / MVA. There is a fee. You need a copy of your birth certificate. Now, with Real ID, you need additional documents. And the vast majority of DMV locations are only accessible if you have a car — and someone legally able to drive the car.

For the sake of this argument, let’s agree that $10 is a nominal amount — although the right to vote should be free. Walk me through the number of steps, the number of hours and the amount it would cost to obtain a valid ID.

Maryland at least has the MVA bus and Baltimore and DC have MVA offices accessible via public transportation— but that’s very rare in most areas.

tldr: Many adults who are not wealthy, particularly if they live in rural or underserved areas.

Then surely Dems can find a workaround. How many people actually don’t have IDs? Is it that people lose them? Dems can work to make it easier to get them.



No, state governments need to do that, not a political party. The minute any well meaning group tries you all scream fraud.

But the state governments don’t WANT to make it easy. See, Jim Crow et. al

Get the FEDERAL government behind issuing and paying all costs to get everyone a valid photo ID. It could be the US passport which is a federal document and is recognized everywhere.
How much could this cost? Say that 11% of eligible voters don't have ID. That's about 25 million persons. Assume a maximum cost of $1000 per person (probably much less since public employees would be doing all the work and no private attorneys)

So, at most 25 billion dollars and this is settled once and for all. A trifle amount given what's at stake and the trillions that are being spent now because of COVID.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every state has a different law about what counts as ID to vote.

And the FACT is that even an state ID (not drivers license) these days is hard to get. Due to COVID waits in my state for an appointment is 4 months. There are no walk in spots.

People who are poor, or elderly, or disabled will struggle mightily to get them even in though they have the RIGHT to vote.

Beyond the appointment you need the fresh paperwork. Elderly people may no longer have access to a birth certificate at all... they may not have been issued one or their courthouse may have burned down. Disabled people who live in group homes or those in nursing homes don't have the transportation to go apply. They may have had valid IDs at one point, but they have expired.

I have friends in Florida who work with a charity that helps people get IDs. They say you won't believe how hard it can be for some people to be able to locate their paperwork.

The GOP is afraid and evil.

Voting is a right. And they want to take it away from the "wrong" people.

The fact is?

All I can say is that you must have a tough life if you think getting a valid ID is "hard."

What kind of adult doesn't have any valid ID in the 21st century?

OMG, how can educated people be so privileged that they refuse to understand reality! Every American is not an able body, young, educated, not-poor person living in DMV suburb. There are many who do not enjoy the privilege you take granted for!

Which is why we are discussing ways to help people get their documents and IDs.

Unless Democrats win elections in every state and have full authority to issue IDs for all Americans and make them acceptable to be used for voting, it is not possible for all Americans to have IDs for voting. Do you think we can find ways for Democrats to wind every state election?

OP, you are falling for the voter suppressing party's framing of election issues. Not having ID for voting is not an election integrity issue.

We are not Bolivia or Afghanistan. Pretending that the US federal government can do what the government in other countries can, is ridiculous. Our election laws are much more complicated and GOP is misusing them to hold onto power. GOP is not working in good faith, so stop using their talking point to improve US elections.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elections need to _look_ secure, as well as to actually _be_ secure. Many would feel more comfortable in accepting election outcomes if minimal efforts were made to provide for election security. Requiring identification from voters is one such step that could be taken. It makes sense to me.

It is my understanding that very few people do not have some form of government-issued identification. As noted above, it is virtually necessary for one to exist in modern society. That said, we should provide valid voter identification cards for free to those who do not have some other form of government-issued identification and give those people some time to obtain such identification before it is actually required.

What would be the objection to this?

Because this is political theater. The whole POINT is to stop poor people and the disenfranchised from voting.

That must be why essentially everywhere else on earth you need an ID but in the US it is just -so- hard to get an ID that it can't be managed.

They require an ID to vote in Afghanistan. Think about that.

Think about how insane you sound to normal, functioning people when you say that needing to have an ID is "voter suppression."

And they're not required in the UK, Australia, or Denmark, countries we're much more like than Afghanistan.

Not quite accurate.

United Kingdom[edit]
Photographic identification is mandatory to vote in elections in Northern Ireland.[29]

Before any election all eligible voters are sent a poll card by their local authority, but it is not a requirement to be in possession of a poll card to vote.[30] Voters are asked to give their name and address at the polling station. Also in order to be registered, voters are required to provide their National Insurance number.[31]

A voter ID trial was held for the 2018 United Kingdom local elections by the national Conservative government. Voters in 5 local authorities in England (Bromley, Gosport, Swindon, Watford and Woking) were required to show ID before voting.