Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how this is going to pan out, but it sounds similar to what APS is doing anyways. They basically are eliminating the option of taking Algebra as a 7th grader -- very very few kids are recommended for it because Math 6/7/8 has been too intense for most kids. As long as the default is you take Algebra as an 8th grader (as opposed to a 9th grader), and they don't get rid of traditional math classes like Geometry and Trig/Pre-calc, I think its ok. I'm a little concerned with getting rid of intensive classes until 10th grade -- there are intensive English/Social Studies classes start at 9th, so it seems like that is the logical place to start intensified classes in Math if you are scaling things back.

No, that is not what is happening. Algebra is pushed to 9th grade, though they are introducing some concepts in earlier grades. Also, there is no tracking, so all level students are in the same class, which means the more advanced items won't be covered.

So in aps, there is no tracking until 6th grade, and then very few kids are recommended for the advanced math class offered in sixth grade. Most kids only start taking any sort of a math track in seventh grade when they take pre-algebra (math 7/8). If they are eliminating the option to take algebra as a eighth grader that’s an issue.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how this is going to pan out, but it sounds similar to what APS is doing anyways. They basically are eliminating the option of taking Algebra as a 7th grader -- very very few kids are recommended for it because Math 6/7/8 has been too intense for most kids. As long as the default is you take Algebra as an 8th grader (as opposed to a 9th grader), and they don't get rid of traditional math classes like Geometry and Trig/Pre-calc, I think its ok. I'm a little concerned with getting rid of intensive classes until 10th grade -- there are intensive English/Social Studies classes start at 9th, so it seems like that is the logical place to start intensified classes in Math if you are scaling things back.

No, that is not what is happening. Algebra is pushed to 9th grade, though they are introducing some concepts in earlier grades. Also, there is no tracking, so all level students are in the same class, which means the more advanced items won't be covered.

I'm not sure how this is going to pan out, but it sounds similar to what APS is doing anyways. They basically are eliminating the option of taking Algebra as a 7th grader -- very very few kids are recommended for it because Math 6/7/8 has been too intense for most kids. As long as the default is you take Algebra as an 8th grader (as opposed to a 9th grader), and they don't get rid of traditional math classes like Geometry and Trig/Pre-calc, I think its ok. I'm a little concerned with getting rid of intensive classes until 10th grade -- there are intensive English/Social Studies classes start at 9th, so it seems like that is the logical place to start intensified classes in Math if you are scaling things back.

Anonymous wrote:Are they getting rid of intensified classes or just changing the pathway so you don’t need to take anything past trig (or can take data science/stats) instead of trig/pre-calc? I can’t imagine them being able to get rid of pre-calc and follow on classes and still be able to get an ib diploma. Are they removing the option of doing dual enrollment classes or taking math over the summer to finish early?

I think the math over the summer may still be allowed, but I think it's ridiculous that a kid who wants to take calc has to sit, bored all year learning nothing, then have their parents pay to have them take precalc during a summer session where they're going to have to rush through the material... and not learn it as well.

Are they getting rid of intensified classes or just changing the pathway so you don’t need to take anything past trig (or can take data science/stats) instead of trig/pre-calc? I can’t imagine them being able to get rid of pre-calc and follow on classes and still be able to get an ib diploma. Are they removing the option of doing dual enrollment classes or taking math over the summer to finish early?

Anonymous wrote:Good. It eliminates all of the parents pushing their 5th and 6th graders into Algebra prematurely. Then, surprise! the kid needs a tutor because it’s too advanced. Then they pass with a B or C in a now watered down class.

Because of these Tiger moms, the classes are now watered down for everyone else. But hey! They can brag about how advanced their kid is in math!

This is not the case in LCPS. The kids who are placed in algebra in 6th grade do very well in the class. It is not a watered down class as many kids end up repeating algebra, but not the 6th graders.
They set the cutoff high to get into algebra in 6th grade.

Anonymous wrote:Good. It eliminates all of the parents pushing their 5th and 6th graders into Algebra prematurely. Then, surprise! the kid needs a tutor because it’s too advanced. Then they pass with a B or C in a now watered down class.

Because of these Tiger moms, the classes are now watered down for everyone else. But hey! They can brag about how advanced their kid is in math!

That's just not true. Typically the kids who take algebra before 7th grade do better in the class than kids who take it later, because they have an unusually high aptitude for math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. It eliminates all of the parents pushing their 5th and 6th graders into Algebra prematurely. Then, surprise! the kid needs a tutor because it’s too advanced. Then they pass with a B or C in a now watered down class.

Because of these Tiger moms, the classes are now watered down for everyone else. But hey! They can brag about how advanced their kid is in math!

Do you have any facts or data to support the idea that the kids taking Algebra in 5th and 6th are performing worse than the kids who take it in 7th or 8th? In my experience, many of the kids taking it in 5th or 6th are still bored, because the class has been watered down to accommodate the kids taking it in 8th.

Still waiting for the facts or data indicating that 5th and 6th graders in Algebra are struggling and are the reason that Algebra has been watered down..... PP?

Anonymous wrote:Good. It eliminates all of the parents pushing their 5th and 6th graders into Algebra prematurely. Then, surprise! the kid needs a tutor because it’s too advanced. Then they pass with a B or C in a now watered down class.

Because of these Tiger moms, the classes are now watered down for everyone else. But hey! They can brag about how advanced their kid is in math!

Do you have any facts or data to support the idea that the kids taking Algebra in 5th and 6th are performing worse than the kids who take it in 7th or 8th? In my experience, many of the kids taking it in 5th or 6th are still bored, because the class has been watered down to accommodate the kids taking it in 8th.

Good. It eliminates all of the parents pushing their 5th and 6th graders into Algebra prematurely. Then, surprise! the kid needs a tutor because it’s too advanced. Then they pass with a B or C in a now watered down class.

Because of these Tiger moms, the classes are now watered down for everyone else. But hey! They can brag about how advanced their kid is in math!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pro having a track that doesn't assume all kids need to take advanced math. The push for earlier and earlier Algebra I and every kid taking Algebra II is silly. I work in computing and don't use Algebra II in my every day life (though I took advanced math in college and could still use it if I needed to).

That said, taking away the chance for kids who are interested to take advanced math is ridiculous. One of my kids adores math and wants to be an aerospace engineer. Should she lose that chance?

They will assume you take calc in college. That’s how it was at my rural southern school, and many grads went on to engineering.

It’s a waste and college will suck for your DD but not impossible

I went to a rural southern school and got accepted in to a highly ranked college. I was completely unprepared for college level math and had to take a remedial math course even though I did very well in math on the SAT. My hs had no ap or honors classes. Most students didn't go to college. I had been in advanced math classes in another school system through middle school. We moved and I missed important math classes in hs and was hobbled. It's a bad idea not to have options for more challenging math.

I agree that the kids with wealthier parents are better prepared for advanced classes. Every middle class family uses tutors. A lot of us started in elementary just because we didn't think the school was doing enough with math and science. At my dc's hs, the best teachers teach the ap classes. The kids who take the lowest level math, history, science classes get screwed doubly because they, this is true at every hs in my city, get the lousy teachers. A kid who struggles in math is going to get the least capable teacher. In several of the subject areas, there was no option between an ap class and a remedial class. Either you were in over your head or you were in a class where the teacher was braiding a students hair and talking about make up and marriage every day.

There is a thread on this in AAP forum that is 20 pages now.

This plan is a gross misinterpretation of "equity". Equity would be putting more resources into struggling groups, not taking them away from others. The goal of equity is supposed to be lifting strugglers, not suppressing achievement.

Detracking is a fad that schools go through every so often. They tried it when I was in school, they tried it when my older sister's kids were in school. It never works, schools find ways around it (doing their own grouping within the same classes), and it ultimately goes back to ability-based tracks after several years of kids education suffers.

Anonymous wrote:But if a half way sane R candidate was saying he would dump this and the Ds say they will keep it moving forward - yeah I would sadly vote R over it. It is THAT terrible of an idea.

I wouldn't really trust any D that did say it, as the plan is linked pretty closely to equity.
I am hoping Northam steps in and gets rid of it, which is possible since this is not necessarily a teachers unions issue, but the equity link makes me think he won't.

The counties will almost certainly be following this. LCPS has already eliminated 6th grade algebra due to current changes to the state pathways. It will also see a vast reduction in the 7th grade algebra, unless they substantially change the admissions criteria, but it looks like they have the same 82% cutoff to get into prealgebra.