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Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

this is actually a really important point. for someone who has been through trauma or is just very private/introverted, “SEL” techniques like meditations can actually be harmful. actual therapists and mediation teachers know that there is no one size fits all.

LMAO you have no clue what meditation is do you?

yes, I do. and good meditation teachers know that you need to be very careful with how you teach meditation to someone with a history of trauma, anxiety, or other mental health challenges. even an instruction to “pay attention to the breath” can cause anxiety/panic in some people.

You really don't, meditation can literally be done by anyone who knows the basic foundations. It's not something needed by a licensed professional. Leave it to white people to take my people's traditional practices and make it into something to be monetized.

you literally have no clue what you’re talking about. and if you’re mad about “white people” monetizing cultural practices, you ought to be mad at “SEL” grift as well.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/is-mindfulness-safe-for-trauma-survivors/

Oh thanks for linking a useless website article. No need to put white people in quotations, it is white people who are the primary culture vultures. I suggest you do actual research on what mediation is and how anyone can do and benefit from it. The one thing you said that is correct is there is no one size fits all. However as a teacher at a title 1 school with children who have been raped, beaten, experienced homelessness, etc. I can tell you this has helped them, it's not the sole reason by any means. Professional counseling is also a huge help.

Ps. social emotional learning is not the same things a mediation, which again you don't need a master's degree to perform. But I doubt you will admit your lack of knowledge about cultural appropriation and meditation.

your refusing to engage with a well-known phenomenon among actual meditation
teachers and psychologists just makes me even more convinced that “SEL” is poorly thought out nonsense. I won’t even get into your absurd claim that mindfulness and meditation are exclusively non-white.

Ah yes, only white meditation is ACTUAL meditation. How silly and very ignorant of me. Maybe it's silly at your little NW school but it has stopped some children at my school from committing suicide. I will agree, I've worked at schools where SEL is just a checklist but that doesn't mean it's not valuable when done with purpose.
Traditional meditation is yes a non-white practice. I mean look what you did to yoga, it's become a white woman's 'exercise.'

wow I’m even more concerned about “SEL” now. suicidal kids need to be getting therapy and medical care - not “SEL” delivered by unstable people like you.

Oh wow, I'm sure you're so concerned about Black children.
And really? Insulting an anon on a forum just because they don't agree with you? Classy.

I am concerned about kids dealing with trauma and social/mental health issues, which is exactly why I think the “SEL” figleaf is repulsive. As for that PP she seems both ignorant and unbalanced, so yeah.

If you can't bother to read the previous posts that's on you. That is one component of helping kids deal with trauma, not the whole picture. And what would you know? Have you ever worked in a school where 30% of the children are homeless? Where there are so many children facing trauma we have to have 2 social workers, school psyc, and a counselor? Please don't demean the practice of everyday wellness. It's not the cure for these kids for sure but it's a step towards the right direction.

you’re not actually engaging in my point about trauma. it’s well known that some forms of meditation instruction can have unanticipated negative effects on people with trauma or other mental health issues - like depersonalization, anxiety, panic. It’s even MORE concerning that untrained practitioners would be delivering this to kids in high poverty schools without any awareness of this basic fact. Even worse the fact that this could take the place of actual psychological services as DCPS and schools pat themselves on the back about their “SEL.” A teacher with a few days training in “SEL” is not a therapist.

Cite? Studies I’ve seen have shown better outcomes on all measures for standard mindfulness based programs for kids and adults with trauma. Participants on average experienced less anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation etc. than non participants. Saying this is « well known » seems wrong.

none of those studies look systematically for side effects; just group-level changes. mediation instructors like Tara Brach talk extensively about the need to be careful about how you teach people with trauma.

https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/trauma-meditation/

moreover, it’s also well known that people with ptsd, trauma, and abuse histories need therapy specifically tailored for them. having untraines teachers deliver “SEL” is careless. https://www.childtrauma.com/blog/go-bad

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

+1

I think making us do any time of SEL as adults is really inappropriate. I don’t want to spend meetings or PD time learning how I can manage stress and discussing my personal life and challenges with colleagues. I find it wholly unprofessional and something I should be expected to do.

Wow. If this is what your school expects you to do, then that's really inappropriate.

PP but yes my school has held several PDs where people have shared very personal information and were encouraged to do so as part of the training. I always just said vague things like ‘I feel stress balancing my work life and personal life’ or that I had a family member who was struggling and it caused me stress. I had some colleagues flat out refuse to participate because they keep their personal lives very private from work. Which is their right. These trainings always go off the rails because the whole premise is forcing people in a professional setting to have really personal conversations. It never goes well.

And yet teachers want admin to focus on SEL for teachers. We cannot have it both ways. I for one like it when admin asks us to share. Like you said you don't have to share.
It's funny that so many teachers on this board take issue with SEL but don't care if teachers are asking for prayers, celebrating Christmas in the classroom, etc.

But teachers in DC always want to complain. Impact, not enough funding, not enough support, I can't do behavior management that's the social workers job, I can't have more sped kids I'm not 'qualified,' and now 'OMG SEL.' Jeez.

I have not complained about any of those things. I don’t know any teachers at my school who’ve asked for SEL training for US. We’ve asked to be trained in methods to better support students.

And my school doesn’t pray or decorate for Christmas. We recognize we have a diverse community and behave as such. But keep bashing teachers!

Notice how you didn’t refute the last line. Everything is ‘bashing,’ stop being such a child and just do your job. Hate that teachers like you make us all look bad. Get that training yourself, you should already have those skills.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

this is actually a really important point. for someone who has been through trauma or is just very private/introverted, “SEL” techniques like meditations can actually be harmful. actual therapists and mediation teachers know that there is no one size fits all.

LMAO you have no clue what meditation is do you?

yes, I do. and good meditation teachers know that you need to be very careful with how you teach meditation to someone with a history of trauma, anxiety, or other mental health challenges. even an instruction to “pay attention to the breath” can cause anxiety/panic in some people.

You really don't, meditation can literally be done by anyone who knows the basic foundations. It's not something needed by a licensed professional. Leave it to white people to take my people's traditional practices and make it into something to be monetized.

you literally have no clue what you’re talking about. and if you’re mad about “white people” monetizing cultural practices, you ought to be mad at “SEL” grift as well.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/is-mindfulness-safe-for-trauma-survivors/

Oh thanks for linking a useless website article. No need to put white people in quotations, it is white people who are the primary culture vultures. I suggest you do actual research on what mediation is and how anyone can do and benefit from it. The one thing you said that is correct is there is no one size fits all. However as a teacher at a title 1 school with children who have been raped, beaten, experienced homelessness, etc. I can tell you this has helped them, it's not the sole reason by any means. Professional counseling is also a huge help.

Ps. social emotional learning is not the same things a mediation, which again you don't need a master's degree to perform. But I doubt you will admit your lack of knowledge about cultural appropriation and meditation.

your refusing to engage with a well-known phenomenon among actual meditation
teachers and psychologists just makes me even more convinced that “SEL” is poorly thought out nonsense. I won’t even get into your absurd claim that mindfulness and meditation are exclusively non-white.

Ah yes, only white meditation is ACTUAL meditation. How silly and very ignorant of me. Maybe it's silly at your little NW school but it has stopped some children at my school from committing suicide. I will agree, I've worked at schools where SEL is just a checklist but that doesn't mean it's not valuable when done with purpose.
Traditional meditation is yes a non-white practice. I mean look what you did to yoga, it's become a white woman's 'exercise.'

wow I’m even more concerned about “SEL” now. suicidal kids need to be getting therapy and medical care - not “SEL” delivered by unstable people like you.

Oh wow, I'm sure you're so concerned about Black children.
And really? Insulting an anon on a forum just because they don't agree with you? Classy.

I am concerned about kids dealing with trauma and social/mental health issues, which is exactly why I think the “SEL” figleaf is repulsive. As for that PP she seems both ignorant and unbalanced, so yeah.

If you can't bother to read the previous posts that's on you. That is one component of helping kids deal with trauma, not the whole picture. And what would you know? Have you ever worked in a school where 30% of the children are homeless? Where there are so many children facing trauma we have to have 2 social workers, school psyc, and a counselor? Please don't demean the practice of everyday wellness. It's not the cure for these kids for sure but it's a step towards the right direction.

you’re not actually engaging in my point about trauma. it’s well known that some forms of meditation instruction can have unanticipated negative effects on people with trauma or other mental health issues - like depersonalization, anxiety, panic. It’s even MORE concerning that untrained practitioners would be delivering this to kids in high poverty schools without any awareness of this basic fact. Even worse the fact that this could take the place of actual psychological services as DCPS and schools pat themselves on the back about their “SEL.” A teacher with a few days training in “SEL” is not a therapist.

Cite? Studies I’ve seen have shown better outcomes on all measures for standard mindfulness based programs for kids and adults with trauma. Participants on average experienced less anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation etc. than non participants. Saying this is « well known » seems wrong.

Effective SEL checks in with kids, lets them share how they are doing in a community in a safe way (with boundaries and parameters), give opportunities for empathy and support, and has some routines for self regulation and care. Also, some conflict resolution. Its generally good stuff, some hooey if you do the full on CA version, but wrapped around a lot of best practices.
I don't trust DCPS to implement it that well overall (though certain schools/teachers may have the training and perspective required). If you don't, it can quickly devolve to window dressing/a time suck/oppressive "tell me how you feel!!!" With that being said, anything implemented poorly can quickly become obnoxious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

+1

I think making us do any time of SEL as adults is really inappropriate. I don’t want to spend meetings or PD time learning how I can manage stress and discussing my personal life and challenges with colleagues. I find it wholly unprofessional and something I should be expected to do.

Wow. If this is what your school expects you to do, then that's really inappropriate.

PP but yes my school has held several PDs where people have shared very personal information and were encouraged to do so as part of the training. I always just said vague things like ‘I feel stress balancing my work life and personal life’ or that I had a family member who was struggling and it caused me stress. I had some colleagues flat out refuse to participate because they keep their personal lives very private from work. Which is their right. These trainings always go off the rails because the whole premise is forcing people in a professional setting to have really personal conversations. It never goes well.

And yet teachers want admin to focus on SEL for teachers. We cannot have it both ways. I for one like it when admin asks us to share. Like you said you don't have to share.
It's funny that so many teachers on this board take issue with SEL but don't care if teachers are asking for prayers, celebrating Christmas in the classroom, etc.

But teachers in DC always want to complain. Impact, not enough funding, not enough support, I can't do behavior management that's the social workers job, I can't have more sped kids I'm not 'qualified,' and now 'OMG SEL.' Jeez.

I have not complained about any of those things. I don’t know any teachers at my school who’ve asked for SEL training for US. We’ve asked to be trained in methods to better support students.

And my school doesn’t pray or decorate for Christmas. We recognize we have a diverse community and behave as such. But keep bashing teachers!

Hmm, it seems like this thread went a bit off the rails. But to OPs comments, I think it really depends how the SEL is done. I have no patience for "fluff" generally, but I think conscious discipline has been really helpful. The idea is that learning cannot occur if the brain is in the flight or flight state, so it focuses on techniques to help kids feel safe and relaxed so their brain can learn. It's not something that is intended to replace therapy for kids experiencing trauma, nor is it the sort of thing that is only useful to kids who have experienced trauma. In fact, I find the techniques I've learned through the school useful in dealing with my loud (so so so loud) kids, and I'm a well-educated, well-resourced, reasonable-seeming, grown ass woman.

I feel sympathy for anyone, though, who is getting fluff instead of effective SEL, or anyone who is getting SEL in lieu of therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

+1

I think making us do any time of SEL as adults is really inappropriate. I don’t want to spend meetings or PD time learning how I can manage stress and discussing my personal life and challenges with colleagues. I find it wholly unprofessional and something I should be expected to do.

Wow. If this is what your school expects you to do, then that's really inappropriate.

PP but yes my school has held several PDs where people have shared very personal information and were encouraged to do so as part of the training. I always just said vague things like ‘I feel stress balancing my work life and personal life’ or that I had a family member who was struggling and it caused me stress. I had some colleagues flat out refuse to participate because they keep their personal lives very private from work. Which is their right. These trainings always go off the rails because the whole premise is forcing people in a professional setting to have really personal conversations. It never goes well.

And yet teachers want admin to focus on SEL for teachers. We cannot have it both ways. I for one like it when admin asks us to share. Like you said you don't have to share.
It's funny that so many teachers on this board take issue with SEL but don't care if teachers are asking for prayers, celebrating Christmas in the classroom, etc.

But teachers in DC always want to complain. Impact, not enough funding, not enough support, I can't do behavior management that's the social workers job, I can't have more sped kids I'm not 'qualified,' and now 'OMG SEL.' Jeez.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

+1

I think making us do any time of SEL as adults is really inappropriate. I don’t want to spend meetings or PD time learning how I can manage stress and discussing my personal life and challenges with colleagues. I find it wholly unprofessional and something I should be expected to do.

Wow. If this is what your school expects you to do, then that's really inappropriate.

PP but yes my school has held several PDs where people have shared very personal information and were encouraged to do so as part of the training. I always just said vague things like ‘I feel stress balancing my work life and personal life’ or that I had a family member who was struggling and it caused me stress. I had some colleagues flat out refuse to participate because they keep their personal lives very private from work. Which is their right. These trainings always go off the rails because the whole premise is forcing people in a professional setting to have really personal conversations. It never goes well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP teacher from early in the thread here. Though it’s really just given lip service at my school I heartily applaud schools that employ a school-wide consistent, evidence-based program (or at least ANY program that clearly is benefiting students). It is SO important to teach skills around emotional regulation!!! My particular school has fewer issues in this area but ALL schools and most humans could stand to work on these issues. Keep it up DCPS but give it the time and funding it needs. I like the idea of regular sessions or specials around it.

Having kids come from a school that does this just be careful what you wish for, I look back on the amount of time my kids spent on SEL as an opportunity cost. If there is some evidence based progressive curriculum with professional standards, goals, outcome measures, mastery, fine.

totally. I mean - just have the kids do yoga for 30 mins. at least that’s exercise and flexibility.

and moreover how can there be “mastery” for “emotional learning?” For untroubled kids, they naturally grow emotionally. for troubled kids, they need a lot more specific support that I don’t think a classroom teacher can/should do.

.

PP teacher from above here. Agree that any specific program teaching emotional regulation should be done by skilled social workers or guidance counselors. Targeting more of this for students who are sorely lacking those skills can be part of a formal plan or a less formal group that meets at regular intervals to learn specific skills. True that not all kids need the full works!

You're a general education teacher aren't you... Gen ed teacher simply believe their job is to teach and pawn off all the behavioral and emotional needs on other people.
You absolutely can target social skills, emotional regulation, etc. And yes there can be an end goal, does it means it's THE end, NO.

Self-contained teachers do it all the time, why can't you?

OP here. I am very in favor of supporting classroom teachers in specific PBI techniques etc to deal with behaviors and to implement IEPs.

Thanks for the clarification OP, I was wondering if people were thinking sped teachers weren't qualified in our jobs. Granted I do need support in any students I get who are suicidal and I agree more support in SEL is needed. It can't just be 'let's read this book about a little girl who lost her dad.' And then ask some 'feelings' questions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's ok if it's done well, adapts and the curriculum innovates. For my kids, it was extremely redundant and boring. I'm not sure either of them are approaching life and decision-making differently after years of it. A year of COVID and learning about resiliency and disappoint has probably done more for them.

As a teacher, I am ok with some integration into the classroom but I absolutely hate it being forced onto me professionally and the expectation that I practice SEL with my colleagues. I am a super introvert and I don't want to feel vulnerable, talk to my colleagues about my SEL needs and I don't want to feel pressured into participating in all the extra activities.

this is actually a really important point. for someone who has been through trauma or is just very private/introverted, “SEL” techniques like meditations can actually be harmful. actual therapists and mediation teachers know that there is no one size fits all.

LMAO you have no clue what meditation is do you?

yes, I do. and good meditation teachers know that you need to be very careful with how you teach meditation to someone with a history of trauma, anxiety, or other mental health challenges. even an instruction to “pay attention to the breath” can cause anxiety/panic in some people.

You really don't, meditation can literally be done by anyone who knows the basic foundations. It's not something needed by a licensed professional. Leave it to white people to take my people's traditional practices and make it into something to be monetized.

you literally have no clue what you’re talking about. and if you’re mad about “white people” monetizing cultural practices, you ought to be mad at “SEL” grift as well.

https://www.thescienceofpsychotherapy.com/is-mindfulness-safe-for-trauma-survivors/

Oh thanks for linking a useless website article. No need to put white people in quotations, it is white people who are the primary culture vultures. I suggest you do actual research on what mediation is and how anyone can do and benefit from it. The one thing you said that is correct is there is no one size fits all. However as a teacher at a title 1 school with children who have been raped, beaten, experienced homelessness, etc. I can tell you this has helped them, it's not the sole reason by any means. Professional counseling is also a huge help.

Ps. social emotional learning is not the same things a mediation, which again you don't need a master's degree to perform. But I doubt you will admit your lack of knowledge about cultural appropriation and meditation.

your refusing to engage with a well-known phenomenon among actual meditation
teachers and psychologists just makes me even more convinced that “SEL” is poorly thought out nonsense. I won’t even get into your absurd claim that mindfulness and meditation are exclusively non-white.

Ah yes, only white meditation is ACTUAL meditation. How silly and very ignorant of me. Maybe it's silly at your little NW school but it has stopped some children at my school from committing suicide. I will agree, I've worked at schools where SEL is just a checklist but that doesn't mean it's not valuable when done with purpose.
Traditional meditation is yes a non-white practice. I mean look what you did to yoga, it's become a white woman's 'exercise.'

wow I’m even more concerned about “SEL” now. suicidal kids need to be getting therapy and medical care - not “SEL” delivered by unstable people like you.

Oh wow, I'm sure you're so concerned about Black children.
And really? Insulting an anon on a forum just because they don't agree with you? Classy.

I am concerned about kids dealing with trauma and social/mental health issues, which is exactly why I think the “SEL” figleaf is repulsive. As for that PP she seems both ignorant and unbalanced, so yeah.

If you can't bother to read the previous posts that's on you. That is one component of helping kids deal with trauma, not the whole picture. And what would you know? Have you ever worked in a school where 30% of the children are homeless? Where there are so many children facing trauma we have to have 2 social workers, school psyc, and a counselor? Please don't demean the practice of everyday wellness. It's not the cure for these kids for sure but it's a step towards the right direction.

you’re not actually engaging in my point about trauma. it’s well known that some forms of meditation instruction can have unanticipated negative effects on people with trauma or other mental health issues - like depersonalization, anxiety, panic. It’s even MORE concerning that untrained practitioners would be delivering this to kids in high poverty schools without any awareness of this basic fact. Even worse the fact that this could take the place of actual psychological services as DCPS and schools pat themselves on the back about their “SEL.” A teacher with a few days training in “SEL” is not a therapist.

Hmm and yet as a self-contained teacher I am in charge of all my students behavioral IEP goals, have to figure our how to further their social skills and emotional regulation. And yet I am not a therapist, and despite this I have successfully transitioned kids back into gen ed or made significant progress with them. Admittedly less so this year, as we lost 2 terms to DL.

OP here - yes I know you do all that! My broader point is you should be better supported and the specific skills you use disseminated to general ed. To me that is very different from “SEL” as currently delivered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP teacher from early in the thread here. Though it’s really just given lip service at my school I heartily applaud schools that employ a school-wide consistent, evidence-based program (or at least ANY program that clearly is benefiting students). It is SO important to teach skills around emotional regulation!!! My particular school has fewer issues in this area but ALL schools and most humans could stand to work on these issues. Keep it up DCPS but give it the time and funding it needs. I like the idea of regular sessions or specials around it.

Having kids come from a school that does this just be careful what you wish for, I look back on the amount of time my kids spent on SEL as an opportunity cost. If there is some evidence based progressive curriculum with professional standards, goals, outcome measures, mastery, fine.

totally. I mean - just have the kids do yoga for 30 mins. at least that’s exercise and flexibility.

and moreover how can there be “mastery” for “emotional learning?” For untroubled kids, they naturally grow emotionally. for troubled kids, they need a lot more specific support that I don’t think a classroom teacher can/should do.

.

PP teacher from above here. Agree that any specific program teaching emotional regulation should be done by skilled social workers or guidance counselors. Targeting more of this for students who are sorely lacking those skills can be part of a formal plan or a less formal group that meets at regular intervals to learn specific skills. True that not all kids need the full works!

You're a general education teacher aren't you... Gen ed teacher simply believe their job is to teach and pawn off all the behavioral and emotional needs on other people.
You absolutely can target social skills, emotional regulation, etc. And yes there can be an end goal, does it means it's THE end, NO.

Self-contained teachers do it all the time, why can't you?

OP here. I am very in favor of supporting classroom teachers in specific PBI techniques etc to deal with behaviors and to implement IEPs.

It would be different if all students were learning to read well, have basic math skills down, and could write a decent paragraph. But too many students aren’t. I work at two different schools. One principal focuses heavily on academic remediation. She figures out how to bring in retired teachers, volunteers, run programs that all focus on basic academic skills. The other school the principal is all about SEL and “trauma informed instruction”. She spends all the money she can in SEL.

The school where kids can actually read, write, and do math has fewer behavior issues because kids feel better about themselves because they are successful at school! Kids seem happier there, teachers are happier, it just had a different feel.

Besides mindfulness, my kids’ school emphasizes having a growth mindset, especially for math. I don’t have any problem with the concept, but I find it a waste of time for two reasons.

First, they read and discuss the *same* books every year. My DD just tolls her eyes at them.

Second, like so many of these things, they are preaching a lesson for the last generation. These kids haven’t come along in an environment where they get numerical grades and rankings from the start, and kids are viewed as either “getting” or “not getting” math. The problem of rigidly classifying kids is already handled by the standards-based report cards, the curriculum that develops number-sense and logic, etc.