A data point:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/writing-programs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some colleges have writing requirements for graduation, as in you cannot graduate without earning your writing credential, including requirements for basic writing and writing specific to your major and degree. Your writing portfolio is reviewed by a panel of professors across disciplines in
your senior year. If it is rejected, you have remediate it in the summer to get your degree. Look for something like that in the schools your child is interested in attending.

Seems a good plan. Which schools?

Saint Mary's (the women's college in Indiana) does this. They also have Senior Comprehensives in every major that must be passed in order to get a degree in the major. Some involve working 1:1 with a professor and writing a thesis that must be defended in front of the whole department and all seniors in the major; some are comprehensive exams that cover all matter in the major, some are independent works of original research, etc. depends on what makes the most sense for the degree. So to graduate you need to fulfill the course requirements, earn the "W" or Advanced "W," and pass your comps in at least one major.

Anonymous wrote:Some colleges have writing requirements for graduation, as in you cannot graduate without earning your writing credential, including requirements for basic writing and writing specific to your major and degree. Your writing portfolio is reviewed by a panel of professors across disciplines in
your senior year. If it is rejected, you have remediate it in the summer to get your degree. Look for something like that in the schools your child is interested in attending.

Seems a good plan. Which schools?

It makes no difference what college your DS goes to, it matters that he reads and writes frequently and persistently. Whatever major he chooses, he should take more than just the first year college composition course that is required of most students - he should also take advanced composition and business and technical writing and even creative writing, as many writing courses as he can fit into his electives. Or major in English with a concentration in rhetoric.

As a JD with undergraduate degrees in English and Political Science and a master’s in English during which degree program I was a TA teaching college composition, and having taught writing for several more years after graduation as adjunct faculty, I can attest to two things: most programs of study at university are terrible at teaching writing - I have seen so many engineering, microbiology, history and other majors who struggled to craft a solid coherent argument and to use language in sophisticated ways expected at that level of writing. The English department is where writing is most effectively taught and learned. Most universities have a writing center where students in ALL majors can get peer and faculty assistance with writing and that is where students should go because often faculty in their own disciplines are no help at all. (Have you tried reading some of the scholarly articles and books that come out of some of these departments? One of the reasons that historians like Goodwin, Beschloss, McCullough, Meacham and Zinn are so popular and well known is that they are in the minority of really good writers in their disciplines - same with scientists like Hawking and Wilson and Gould. The other thing is that legal writing is a very different beast full of arcane rules and quirks that constantly challenge the normal writing skills most law students bring to bear. It helps a great deal to be a very strong writer going in, so that after you’ve been mind melded to the way of legal writing you can still bring some passion and technique to legal briefing that will move courts and clients alike. The vast majority of practicing lawyers are pretty awful writers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by great writer? A novelist, or just someone who is able to write a grammatically correct email, Power Point presentation, or business plan? IMO, the best way to become a good writer is to read a lot.

OP here

Yes, fair question.....

DC, a HS junior, wants to pursue a career in law or business. So in that sense.

The best major for law school admissions is philosophy.

BS. If your LSAT is high enough, it doesn't matter if you attended Sh!tstain State and majored in sports therapy.

Anonymous wrote:I suppose you could say anywhere, but are there those that are particularly know for it?

TIA

Bwahahaha! Not yours, clearly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by great writer? A novelist, or just someone who is able to write a grammatically correct email, Power Point presentation, or business plan? IMO, the best way to become a good writer is to read a lot.

OP here

Yes, fair question.....

DC, a HS junior, wants to pursue a career in law or business. So in that sense.

Such a silly question for someone interested in law or business. If you want to pursue a career in law, get top grades in a good school and score well on the LSAT while majoring in whatever you want. If writing is a big deal to you, major in English or philosophy. If you want a career in business, go to a school with a good B-school.

No, not a silly question. Being a good writer as an attorney is a must. Being a great writer as an attorney puts you head and shoulders above. Anything that puts you in that second category is a HUGE plus.

And being a great writer in business, coupled with very good quantitative skills, makes you stratospheric.

Being a rainmaker is more important than anything.

I don't think any college will really do this although I do think Brown's writing fellows program is great.

That said, this book improved my writing more than anything else. I now give it to a lot of my direct reports and have seen it help them write clearly.

https://www.amazon.com/Words-Fail-Me-Everyone-Writing/dp/0156010879

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of them are miracle workers. If the kid hasn’t been reading hundreds of books for leisure since they were in primary school it’ll never happen. Plus grammar school plus four years of good writing instruction from high school.

You can’t make up for that lost time.

This is nonsense. Not every highly skilled, professional writer was a voracious reader since childhood.

Okay sweetie. Cope and cling to the anomalies. Magical thinking!

Anonymous wrote:None of them are miracle workers. If the kid hasn’t been reading hundreds of books for leisure since they were in primary school it’ll never happen. Plus grammar school plus four years of good writing instruction from high school.

You can’t make up for that lost time.

This is nonsense. Not every highly skilled, professional writer was a voracious reader since childhood.

Anonymous wrote:This is easy. Any UK or European college.

I went to the London School of Economics for a masters after a US undergrad. Most taught masters in the UK have a 10,000 dissertation requirement that I was terrified of bc I couldn't write to save my life, I felt that college had not prepared me properly for this. I went to a good US school, too. The Europeans, on the other hand, wrote SO WELL, even the non-native English speakers. By writing well I mean they were able to create an argument and write coherently in support of it. An Italian in my program said he wrote a thesis in high school and had written a thesis for every stage of education afterwards. They could not understand why we were so afraid of writing.

So to answer your question, I'd say any US school that requires you to write a graduation thesis. Not sure if there are any, but I feel all US undergrads should have this as a requirement.

Also OP, I totally agree with your premise. Writing is the foundational skill required for success in ANY career.

I agree with this. My DD is doing her undergrad in Scotland right now, and most of the assignments she does involve writing papers rather than taking exams. She's currently spending her entire semester writing a dissertation.

Anonymous wrote:This is easy. Any UK or European college.

I went to the London School of Economics for a masters after a US undergrad. Most taught masters in the UK have a 10,000 dissertation requirement that I was terrified of bc I couldn't write to save my life, I felt that college had not prepared me properly for this. I went to a good US school, too. The Europeans, on the other hand, wrote SO WELL, even the non-native English speakers. By writing well I mean they were able to create an argument and write coherently in support of it. An Italian in my program said he wrote a thesis in high school and had written a thesis for every stage of education afterwards. They could not understand why we were so afraid of writing.

So to answer your question, I'd say any US school that requires you to write a graduation thesis. Not sure if there are any, but I feel all US undergrads should have this as a requirement.

Also OP, I totally agree with your premise. Writing is the foundational skill required for success in ANY career.

College of Wooster. All students are required to work 1-on-1 with a professor for all of senior year to complete a significant piece of original research or scholarship. The first couple years are focused on preparing students to take that on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLACs, Ivy, Berkeley, Michigan, Chicago, UVA.

Really? How many professor advised and graded papers are written by the typical Berkeley student?

PP has no idea what s/he’s talking about. The post also suggests the PP attended 20 colleges and is deeply familiar with college writing at each.

None of them are miracle workers. If the kid hasn’t been reading hundreds of books for leisure since they were in primary school it’ll never happen. Plus grammar school plus four years of good writing instruction from high school.

You can’t make up for that lost time.

This is easy. Any UK or European college.

I went to the London School of Economics for a masters after a US undergrad. Most taught masters in the UK have a 10,000 dissertation requirement that I was terrified of bc I couldn't write to save my life, I felt that college had not prepared me properly for this. I went to a good US school, too. The Europeans, on the other hand, wrote SO WELL, even the non-native English speakers. By writing well I mean they were able to create an argument and write coherently in support of it. An Italian in my program said he wrote a thesis in high school and had written a thesis for every stage of education afterwards. They could not understand why we were so afraid of writing.

So to answer your question, I'd say any US school that requires you to write a graduation thesis. Not sure if there are any, but I feel all US undergrads should have this as a requirement.

Also OP, I totally agree with your premise. Writing is the foundational skill required for success in ANY career.