Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Totally this

Poor white people were never privileged.

Oh okay. So they were enslaved? So they couldn’t eat at woolworths or sit where they wanted on the bus or go to school or get a housing loan or a job? I had no idea.
-child of two poor whole people who made it because of hard work AND privilege.

We didn't have a Woolworth's. I grew up in a trailer, not a house. We didn't have public buses. After the glass plant shutdown, no one had jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Totally this

Poor white people were never privileged.

Oh okay. So they were enslaved? So they couldn’t eat at woolworths or sit where they wanted on the bus or go to school or get a housing loan or a job? I had no idea.
-child of two poor whole people who made it because of hard work AND privilege.

I guess you have a point if you want to go back 150 years ago.

I'm not white or male and I am much angrier but nobody writes articles about me. Waaa! Seriously, I am often seething mad and I know it's not good for my health so I am trying to redirect.

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice if I could tune in to NPR and just once -- -once -- hear a white male announcer. Usually it is a female with a foreign accent that I can't understand. And the topic is typically how white men are the root of all evil in the world.

hmm- there's james menendez, he's a white male and presumably you can understand british bbc announcer accents? david green is white i think. . also the weather guy. theres raazia iqbal and something chakrabarty but they both have standard bbc or americas mid atlantic accents. who are you referring to?? maybe you shouldn't tune in during the bbc newshour . . that's usually the only time when there is a "foreign" accent-i mean its bbc radio announcer accent which means its cary grant in the 60s accent, as in accent less english but i can understand how someone who perhaps immigrated here and is the first native english speaker in their family could find accent less english difficult to understand. You probably can't understand katherine hepbourne or casablanca or other classic film either. .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have become aware recently after having heard rants from my upper middle class white early thirties husband, that there is a subgroup of men who have a lot of resentment and anger at the state of current affairs in our society.

- They feel young boys are not included in early education and socialization efforts as the focus is solely on empowering young girls and minorities
- They feel resentful that they are being told they are "bad" or "toxic" and being called "rapist"
- Women and minorities are hired for jobs and opportunities instead of them
- Media is taken over by women and Minorities
- Politics is taken over by special interest groups that does not necessarily favor their interests

Is this a larger intellectual movement or not?

Toxic masculinity is a thing. Everyone who thinks this way has a character defect and is a bad person.

Women and minorities haven't "taken over" any of those things. I don't know who is telling all boys they are "bad" or "toxic" or being called "rapist". We're calling out the ones who are violent and do rape. Women are less likely to go hide in the corner after being assaulted by a male. It's Trumpian to turn that into some kind of aggressive act against men.

Anonymous wrote:White anxiety—fear of losing privilege and dying out. See articles about white anxiety and the browning of America.

This freaks out the uneducated in our population most. They hate that they have stayed lower on the totem pole than many immigrants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Female here I can’t speak to other things but I can definitely say my young son is not seeing boys on tv being role models. Everything is geared toward girls now. Characters being changed to female all the time. It’s ridiculous to swing so far to the other side so all I can show my son is old tv shows or movies with a boy lead.

Seriously? My non-white DD rarely sees kids who like her on TV. However, white boys are tv/movie heroes all the time!

This! It's a joke to say boys aren't represented on tv. I have sons too and don't see what pp is talking about. What role models are you hoping for your son to find on tv prior poster? Admit it you just want 1950 back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Totally this

Poor white people were never privileged.

Oh okay. So they were enslaved? So they couldn’t eat at woolworths or sit where they wanted on the bus or go to school or get a housing loan or a job? I had no idea.
-child of two poor whole people who made it because of hard work AND privilege.

When people in power have to give it up and it’s an actual meritocracy, people will do anything to hand on to their wealth and safety and resources. It’s human nature. Not just white people but that’s what we’re seeing now because white men have the power.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Totally this

Poor white people were never privileged.

White anxiety—fear of losing privilege and dying out. See articles about white anxiety and the browning of America.

Anonymous wrote:When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Totally this

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a very sophisticated presentation of how some young white men feel, OP.

Of course power should not reside solely among white men. Those days are gone for good (in every sense).

You can’t honestly deny that some of the rhetoric from the left isn’t basically expressed as “white men have been in power too long, so it is time to give others a turn.” And often this is expressed by white women blind to their own privilege.

So that puts some young white men in a box. They personally may have enjoyed privilege, but they may be getting the message not just that they should respect the abilities and potential of others, but also sit down and stand back at the game of life so others can take charge. They may be in their 20s and 30s but they are already being treated like “dead white males” in certain circles.

It’s a shame there isn’t a more nuanced way to deal with them. It’s a shame to older liberals to see so many younger Proud Boy types. The tension isn’t going to abate simply because Trump leaves if the goal of the left is make everyone as uncomfortable in their own skin as oppressed minorities may have been. I’m not sure this country has much of a future with that mindset.

I completely disagree that the left is doing this...but even if I accept your premise, what is your solution? Why is it "the left"'s responsibility to solve the problem of a society being structured to privilege white men? What did anyone think was going to happen? Oppressed people should not have to take the feelings of their oppressors into account!

Unless all white men think that the status quo is fine, why aren't more of them proposing solutions that aren't so oppressive to white men?

Some are; they tend to be drowned out or told they should be silent because the “lived experiences” of others deserve more prominence.

When the subtext of the oppressed is revenge, not equality or opportunity, no one should be surprised if we end up with civil strife. And because too many of these men end up with an adult version of selective mutism, they just end grumbling to their families or expressing themselves in unproductive ways.

I mean, this is kind of true, though. I think you might have missed my point. My point is that, yes, the narrative re: white men isn't very understanding toward them. That's because it's being driven primarily by the people who have been oppressed by them. White men were too slow to give up power, and now it's going to be a hard battle to demonstrate how they can be part of a more equitable society. Unsurprisingly, many of them are responding by circling the wagons and preferring the status quo.

I don't have a ton of solutions, TBH. I'm a Brown chick married to a white dude, with a mixed DS who could "pass" as white. We are very privileged as UMC professionals. More strongly than me, DH feels that the benefits of our privilege should be tempered. For example, he thinks opportunities like elite college admission should preferentially go to underprivileged kids, even if it means other kids are given priority over ours. DH is, in many ways, kind of conservative. But he knows what's moral. He doesn't think a lot about whether his voice is being drowned out, he just does what he knows is right.

Maybe, instead of being resentful, more people should focus on what's right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a very sophisticated presentation of how some young white men feel, OP.

Of course power should not reside solely among white men. Those days are gone for good (in every sense).

You can’t honestly deny that some of the rhetoric from the left isn’t basically expressed as “white men have been in power too long, so it is time to give others a turn.” And often this is expressed by white women blind to their own privilege.

So that puts some young white men in a box. They personally may have enjoyed privilege, but they may be getting the message not just that they should respect the abilities and potential of others, but also sit down and stand back at the game of life so others can take charge. They may be in their 20s and 30s but they are already being treated like “dead white males” in certain circles.

It’s a shame there isn’t a more nuanced way to deal with them. It’s a shame to older liberals to see so many younger Proud Boy types. The tension isn’t going to abate simply because Trump leaves if the goal of the left is make everyone as uncomfortable in their own skin as oppressed minorities may have been. I’m not sure this country has much of a future with that mindset.

I completely disagree that the left is doing this...but even if I accept your premise, what is your solution? Why is it "the left"'s responsibility to solve the problem of a society being structured to privilege white men? What did anyone think was going to happen? Oppressed people should not have to take the feelings of their oppressors into account!

Unless all white men think that the status quo is fine, why aren't more of them proposing solutions that aren't so oppressive to white men?

Some are; they tend to be drowned out or told they should be silent because the “lived experiences” of others deserve more prominence.

When the subtext of the oppressed is revenge, not equality or opportunity, no one should be surprised if we end up with civil strife. And because too many of these men end up with an adult version of selective mutism, they just end grumbling to their families or expressing themselves in unproductive ways.

So many generalizations: "drowned out or told they should be silent" by who? Who exactly are you quoting here?

And honestly, given how difficult access to "equality or opportunity" has been for some, you'd think that there would be widespread support for more equality and opportunity in this country if "revenge" is seen as the next step.

I gather you see no irony in your dogged insistence on having the last word here, even when you’re intentionally twisting what was written.

Not surprised, but even less interested in engaging with you further.

You know that you're responding to a different poster than you were initially, right?

Anonymous wrote:We had one none-white male president and people lost their damn minds.

And as a retaliation they gave as a buffoon who had lost the popular vote too.