Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good-natured, well-behaved, polite kids...

...are kids who are paid attention to by their parents. So they are secure in knowing that they are important and loved.

As a clinical psychologist who spends 90% of my work day doing neuropsych evaluations on children from all types of families this is a constant education process i have to go through on a daily basis. Barring major dysfunction, personality traits are genetic. Your assessment is a common, but ignorant and very antiquated one.

The other side of the coin is that I sometimes see very compliant children who are pleasers because they are walking on eggshells around their parents. They actually don't feel valued and accepted. They come to me as "good" kids with some educational issues and once you peel the onion back it's the compliance that actually is the root of the problem.

The reality is, if you work with families, you often see a huge spectrum of children in the same family raised the exact same way, in loving supportive homes (every family who comes to me spending 3k in an evaluation have parents who pay attention to their kids and love them).

There is a lot of arrogance in many of these responses as if some of you deserve credit for having a compliant child, when in fact you are either lucky or have simply systematically torn your kid down.

I do find the anonymity of this forum quite relieving. I'd love to say this to your face, but cannot.

This gave me a lot to think about. What advice do you have to the eggshell parent? I don’t want my sweet son to be compliant for this reason

You need to encourage your kid to fail and be there to support the failure and not judge it.

-np

Good well behaved polite = high anxiety afraid of their own shadow

The older your kids get the more you realize that a lot of this stuff is more innate personality than any super parenting you have done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good-natured, well-behaved, polite kids...

...are kids who are paid attention to by their parents. So they are secure in knowing that they are important and loved.

As a clinical psychologist who spends 90% of my work day doing neuropsych evaluations on children from all types of families this is a constant education process i have to go through on a daily basis. Barring major dysfunction, personality traits are genetic. Your assessment is a common, but ignorant and very antiquated one.

The other side of the coin is that I sometimes see very compliant children who are pleasers because they are walking on eggshells around their parents. They actually don't feel valued and accepted. They come to me as "good" kids with some educational issues and once you peel the onion back it's the compliance that actually is the root of the problem.

The reality is, if you work with families, you often see a huge spectrum of children in the same family raised the exact same way, in loving supportive homes (every family who comes to me spending 3k in an evaluation have parents who pay attention to their kids and love them).

There is a lot of arrogance in many of these responses as if some of you deserve credit for having a compliant child, when in fact you are either lucky or have simply systematically torn your kid down.

I do find the anonymity of this forum quite relieving. I'd love to say this to your face, but cannot.

This gave me a lot to think about. What advice do you have to the eggshell parent? I don’t want my sweet son to be compliant for this reason

This person evaluates and doesn't treat or work with. Their opinion is very subjective. You see what you want to in a few hour visit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this nature or nurture?

As a parent to 5 children, I can tell you it's 90% nature 10% nurture.

Having nearly a half kids really knocks you off your high horse.

Oh, save it. I grew up in a religious community and have known tons and tons of people with 5-7 kids.

Parents of many children always say that it’s all nature, when the reality is that their homes are too chaotic for any real parenting to happen. You know you spend limited amounts of time with each of your kids, and you’re always playing triage. So yeah, I’m sure from your perspective it’s all nature! You don’t have the time or energy to pick up on behavioral/academic/whatever problems until they are major issue.

It’s 90% nature in your house because there’s little nurture.

+1. They just ignore and don’t parent and say it takes a village and dump the kids on others.

Omg so true

Oh please. I have 6 kids. 5 perfectly well behaved and one little hellion from birth (whom we love dearly - but intense and challenging).you're telling me its my parenting that made him stop napping at 3 months? Made him run around in circles for hours because of high energy levels?

My 5 easy kids are super easy to parent. I set a boundary and they listen. Maybe one time they need a reminder. They would never think of climbing over a hate, jumping off the top of a bunk bed repeatedly, trying to touch fire to see "is it really hot mommy?".

It sounds like you parented your kids as a pack vs. individual parenting. You expected easy kids who would parent themselves. My super easy kid never really napped ever. He'd dose for a few minutes here and there when he was a baby and that's it. No big deal. He doesn't need as much sleep as most.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good-natured, well-behaved, polite kids...

...are kids who are paid attention to by their parents. So they are secure in knowing that they are important and loved.

As a clinical psychologist who spends 90% of my work day doing neuropsych evaluations on children from all types of families this is a constant education process i have to go through on a daily basis. Barring major dysfunction, personality traits are genetic. Your assessment is a common, but ignorant and very antiquated one.

The other side of the coin is that I sometimes see very compliant children who are pleasers because they are walking on eggshells around their parents. They actually don't feel valued and accepted. They come to me as "good" kids with some educational issues and once you peel the onion back it's the compliance that actually is the root of the problem.

The reality is, if you work with families, you often see a huge spectrum of children in the same family raised the exact same way, in loving supportive homes (every family who comes to me spending 3k in an evaluation have parents who pay attention to their kids and love them).

There is a lot of arrogance in many of these responses as if some of you deserve credit for having a compliant child, when in fact you are either lucky or have simply systematically torn your kid down.

I do find the anonymity of this forum quite relieving. I'd love to say this to your face, but cannot.

This gave me a lot to think about. What advice do you have to the eggshell parent? I don’t want my sweet son to be compliant for this reason

I don’t think good natured and polite are necessarily correlated. I know some really nasty kids who are very polite—they are very good at internalizing social expectations (which can make them judgmental or exclusionary) or are controlled by anxiety. And I know lots of kids who are extremely good natured but not very polite because they are bubbling over with enthusiasm for things like a Labrador retriever, or are sort of day dreaming in their own world.

Anonymous wrote:Good nature is, well, nature. Well-behaved and polite are a combination of nature and nurture. Some kids are wired to be more compliant, more sociable, more whatever mix of traits, but manners and behavioral guidelines are taught...and not just by parents. Teachers, extended family, and peers are all important.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both. Without nurture, naturally good kids can do bad things. Despite tons of good nurture, some kids are simply wired for aggression or high maintenance personalities.

It's never as simple as we want it to be.

+1
I have two kids. One definitely got an advantage of just being born agreeable easy going slow to anger quick to calm down. He's very altruistic sweet caring to the point it makes me worry how he'll survive in corporate America.
The other was born the opposite.
We obviously teach them the same and it's been a challenge with the other one to keep her well behaved, polite, more caring than her selfish instincts lead her to act or say stuff.

So basically, they are both well behaved and polite, but it took a lot of nurturing to have helped her be that way and we have to keep on giving her reminders way more often for her to continue to remain this way.

Anonymous wrote:Both. Without nurture, naturally good kids can do bad things. Despite tons of good nurture, some kids are simply wired for aggression or high maintenance personalities.

It's never as simple as we want it to be.

+1
I have two kids. One definitely got an advantage of just being born agreeable easy going slow to anger quick to calm down. He's very altruistic sweet caring to the point it makes me worry how he'll survive in corporate America.
The other was born the opposite.
We obviously teach them the same and it's been a challenge with the other one to keep her well behaved, polite, more caring than her selfish instincts lead her to act or say stuff.

Anonymous wrote:Not a clinical psychologist but everything PP clinical psychologist said rings true. Also the question is so off base. “well behaved, polite” is all about the parents/adults. Yes my kid needs to learn empathy. Yes my kid, at degrees as DD grows, must learn that there are societal expectations DD must live with. Yes I’ll teach habits of please, thank you, and door holding but they are simple habits. I’m a very high earning female working in a field where men predominate and these just aren’t the values I think matter long term either for economic success OR keeping your soul despite everything. Years ago a preschool teacher told me my daughter was “wilful” and internally I thought “with everything women face in life, F you if you think I’m squashing that in her just to make your job easier.” All of you patting yourselves on your backs sound like that B.

Perhaps the people you work with are successful in spite of being "willful" and not because of it.

Additionally, high earning is just one aspect of success. Relationships matter much more than income above a certain threshold.

My younger sister works at the FDA making 150K doing work that is very meaningful and fulfilling. I have a girlfriend who is a cardiologist, and she has a fulfilling career and great relationships. These two women have never been described as "willful" by their teachers/parents. They did not need to be "willful" to have pretty good careers and great relationships. I would say they "kept their souls", but that has nothing to do with being "willful".

I think these two women are much more successful than my cousin making over a million dollars a year in sales because she has no admirable relationship(neither in her marriage nor with her parents/siblings/friends). Her career success has nothing to do with her "willful" behavior; I have an uncle in the same field with similar income, and he is much more similar in personality to the two women above. He would never be described as "willful" by teachers/parents.

One of my friend's spouse is "willful", and he makes great money. However, he is a lousy spouse/lousy parents because he lacks tactfulness/grace. He is successful in spite of his "willfulness", not because of it. He is successful because he is a hardworker who seized a great opportunity. He had the courage to take a bold calculated step. That is not willfulness. Willfulness encompasses courage. But courage does not encompass willfulness. Many people are courageous without being "willful."

Nobody wants a doormat for a child/adult. But that doesn't mean that a "willful" child/adult should be a desired parenting goal. These are two extremes. The goal should be raising a "wise" child/adult who knows when to be assertive and when not to be.


Some of the good-natured, well-behaved and polite kids will be doormats. Others will be "wise" kids who know when to stand up for themselves and when to stand down. Some of the "willful" kids will grow up to be "wise". Others will not.

I am using "willful" in quotes because we all know what it means. I was a "willful" child. I am in my 30s, and I am learning to be more "wise" than "willful."

correction - five older kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this nature or nurture?

As a parent to 5 children, I can tell you it's 90% nature 10% nurture.

Having nearly a half kids really knocks you off your high horse.

Oh, save it. I grew up in a religious community and have known tons and tons of people with 5-7 kids.

Parents of many children always say that it’s all nature, when the reality is that their homes are too chaotic for any real parenting to happen. You know you spend limited amounts of time with each of your kids, and you’re always playing triage. So yeah, I’m sure from your perspective it’s all nature! You don’t have the time or energy to pick up on behavioral/academic/whatever problems until they are major issue.

It’s 90% nature in your house because there’s little nurture.

+1. They just ignore and don’t parent and say it takes a village and dump the kids on others.

Omg so true

Oh please. I have 6 kids. 5 perfectly well behaved and one little hellion from birth (whom we love dearly - but intense and challenging).you're telling me its my parenting that made him stop napping at 3 months? Made him run around in circles for hours because of high energy levels?

My 5 easy kids are super easy to parent. I set a boundary and they listen. Maybe one time they need a reminder. They would never think of climbing over a hate, jumping off the top of a bunk bed repeatedly, trying to touch fire to see "is it really hot mommy?".

If you think the fact that your youngest won't nap has nothing to do with the fact that your house is the loudest place on earth, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Same if you think that your kid doesn't understand that "hellion" behavior is what gets attention in a house that is tied up trying to deal with four older kids. Looks like he's figured out a way to protest and differentiate himself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this nature or nurture?

As a parent to 5 children, I can tell you it's 90% nature 10% nurture.

Having nearly a half kids really knocks you off your high horse.

Oh, save it. I grew up in a religious community and have known tons and tons of people with 5-7 kids.

Parents of many children always say that it’s all nature, when the reality is that their homes are too chaotic for any real parenting to happen. You know you spend limited amounts of time with each of your kids, and you’re always playing triage. So yeah, I’m sure from your perspective it’s all nature! You don’t have the time or energy to pick up on behavioral/academic/whatever problems until they are major issue.

It’s 90% nature in your house because there’s little nurture.

+1. They just ignore and don’t parent and say it takes a village and dump the kids on others.

Omg so true

Oh please. I have 6 kids. 5 perfectly well behaved and one little hellion from birth (whom we love dearly - but intense and challenging).you're telling me its my parenting that made him stop napping at 3 months? Made him run around in circles for hours because of high energy levels?

My 5 easy kids are super easy to parent. I set a boundary and they listen. Maybe one time they need a reminder. They would never think of climbing over a hate, jumping off the top of a bunk bed repeatedly, trying to touch fire to see "is it really hot mommy?".

Not a clinical psychologist but everything PP clinical psychologist said rings true. Also the question is so off base. “well behaved, polite” is all about the parents/adults. Yes my kid needs to learn empathy. Yes my kid, at degrees as DD grows, must learn that there are societal expectations DD must live with. Yes I’ll teach habits of please, thank you, and door holding but they are simple habits. I’m a very high earning female working in a field where men predominate and these just aren’t the values I think matter long term either for economic success OR keeping your soul despite everything. Years ago a preschool teacher told me my daughter was “wilful” and internally I thought “with everything women face in life, F you if you think I’m squashing that in her just to make your job easier.” All of you patting yourselves on your backs sound like that B.