Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hoco reopening nutjobs:

One of the BOE members explained the voting about Q4, and I kind of feel you read this already, and just want to complain. As explained, the superintendent has the authority without the board, in Q4, to return certain groups. You can read the explanation on these members' FB pages. You won't find it on the crazy pages.
That being said, the vaccine rollout may change a lot of things, regardless. Maybe by Q4, but if they aren't readily available to teachers, no- of course schools aren't going back in the building.

Keep being disrespectful and dismissive. It helps so much!

Normal parent here. I appreciate the BOE member's explanation of her vote on Facebook, although I still think her position was unclear, because I came away with a different understanding than that of the PP. I was under the impression that she was saying that the Superintendent didn't need BOE approval to bring back small groups (not general student cohorts like K-2) at any time, and they can return to the building even before the 4th quarter. I hope that in future meetings, the players will clarify the difference between small target groups and general populations of students, even if grouped in to smaller subgroups (such as K-2).

Regardless of what I understand or what she meant, it is nice that the new members are taking the time to be transparent about their decisions. However, it would be even better if they could do that at the Board's open meetings when the public is watching. I'm not one of the crazy reopen parents or one who fought redistricting, but as those groups have illustrated in their battles, when there is the appearance of impropriety, confidence in the BOE suffers. If the board wants to vote on any issue, the issue needs to be on the public agenda in accordance with the Open Meetings Act. The board should do the right thing using the correct process.

As noted in the prior posts, many families are most concerned that there has been no progress toward developing a plan for returning general populations of students using a hybrid model, which means any model under which less than the full student population would be in the school buildings 5 days per week. The proposal developed by Dr. M. was deemed to be unacceptable, but what are the alternatives? What happens next year if the metrics and vaccine distribution aren't at a level to allow a return 5 days per week? Are there any realistic alternatives that promote safety but allow some in person learning with teachers in the building for students who need it the most?

Whether or not it is their intention, the faction of the BOE voting against Dr. M's requests give the impression that they want to obstruct formulation of any return to school plan, as opposed to systemically considering and planning to address each safety or logistical concern in good faith. It is almost as if they think it is disrespectful to discuss returning to school at some point in the future because we are in a surge. If that is the case, then they should say so. I agree it is unsafe to return now. Doesn't that make now the ideal time to plan?

I hope the parties can drill down on all of the issues and specify each moving part that needs to fall into place to make it safe to return. If teachers are able to get vaccinated by next spring (or summer) and the metrics improve to the lower levels the Board voted on for returning to school, what other hurdles must be cleared to return students to the buildings, even if it just K-2, or some other group of students who need in person learning the most? Are there HVAC improvements that still need to be made? How much more funding is needed to address important issues? Do we need a virtual only option for families that want it, which would remove some students from the population that would attend school in person and allow educators with concerns to continue to work remotely?

If DL is here for the long haul, meaning through this year and the beginning of the next school year, if not beyond, it would be helpful to have the BOE acknowledge that. It is easier to accept bad news when you understand the reasoning. I watch the meetings closely and cannot envision any outcome whereby the majority of the BOE (or the union rep.) will accept any return to school unless the pandemic is completely over, meaning there is no community transmission. As they have said repeatedly, it is a matter of teacher and student safety and teaching does not require any teacher risking the life or health of the teacher or family member of a teacher who might be exposed through teaching in person. Will the vaccine really change this, especially if children have not been vaccinated? Will all family member of teachers also be vaccinated? The vaccines will not fix these problems. Hybrid plans involving normal classroom numbers with some learning virtually and others in person are off the table, so the only option would be full return to the buildings. If it isn't "safe" to have in person school during a pandemic, it will not be business as usual in the fall. There is no point continuing to work on return to school plans, and the BOE should make this known to the community now.

Respectful as in using the terms "unhinged?" Got it.

To reiterate, hybrid is still putting teachers at risk. It may lessen the risk to students, maybe in some minds, (?), but it doesn't change anything for staff. Additionally, it's crazy hard to do. It's turned out to be one of the reasons for staff resignation as it's like having 3 jobs. Lastly, teachers are not all willing to have their kids in schools and daycare, yet. They are parents, too.

It's clear that "metrics" only suggest less cases spiking, not less contagion opportunities, so it's fairly clear that creating deadlines doesn't offer anyone anything sound.

Children will likely have to be vaccinated, as they have to be vaccinated for other diseases, to enter school, and my guess is that you have some chance of entering in the Fall if this happens, but....
Questions that still need to be answered:
**Length of immunity of vaccine. That's still a big one.
**Can an innoculated person still spread COVID, not from the vaxx, but from being infected from community spread COVID and not becoming ill?
** Will there be a mandate in many situations in order to return to whatever job, building, or school?
**Can children even receive a vaccine?- not approved yet.
**Pregnant and otherwise comprised teachers and staff?

So, it's safe to say kids will be home until at least Fall of 2021. At least.

But, some parents have once again decided to sue, lol, the SMOB's voting right in this recent decision in an effort to show that they don't understand how this actually works, or maybe how any of the board meetings work. Whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hoco reopening nutjobs:

One of the BOE members explained the voting about Q4, and I kind of feel you read this already, and just want to complain. As explained, the superintendent has the authority without the board, in Q4, to return certain groups. You can read the explanation on these members' FB pages. You won't find it on the crazy pages.
That being said, the vaccine rollout may change a lot of things, regardless. Maybe by Q4, but if they aren't readily available to teachers, no- of course schools aren't going back in the building.

Keep being disrespectful and dismissive. It helps so much!

Normal parent here. I appreciate the BOE member's explanation of her vote on Facebook, although I still think her position was unclear, because I came away with a different understanding than that of the PP. I was under the impression that she was saying that the Superintendent didn't need BOE approval to bring back small groups (not general student cohorts like K-2) at any time, and they can return to the building even before the 4th quarter. I hope that in future meetings, the players will clarify the difference between small target groups and general populations of students, even if grouped in to smaller subgroups (such as K-2).

Regardless of what I understand or what she meant, it is nice that the new members are taking the time to be transparent about their decisions. However, it would be even better if they could do that at the Board's open meetings when the public is watching. I'm not one of the crazy reopen parents or one who fought redistricting, but as those groups have illustrated in their battles, when there is the appearance of impropriety, confidence in the BOE suffers. If the board wants to vote on any issue, the issue needs to be on the public agenda in accordance with the Open Meetings Act. The board should do the right thing using the correct process.

As noted in the prior posts, many families are most concerned that there has been no progress toward developing a plan for returning general populations of students using a hybrid model, which means any model under which less than the full student population would be in the school buildings 5 days per week. The proposal developed by Dr. M. was deemed to be unacceptable, but what are the alternatives? What happens next year if the metrics and vaccine distribution aren't at a level to allow a return 5 days per week? Are there any realistic alternatives that promote safety but allow some in person learning with teachers in the building for students who need it the most?

Whether or not it is their intention, the faction of the BOE voting against Dr. M's requests give the impression that they want to obstruct formulation of any return to school plan, as opposed to systemically considering and planning to address each safety or logistical concern in good faith. It is almost as if they think it is disrespectful to discuss returning to school at some point in the future because we are in a surge. If that is the case, then they should say so. I agree it is unsafe to return now. Doesn't that make now the ideal time to plan?

I hope the parties can drill down on all of the issues and specify each moving part that needs to fall into place to make it safe to return. If teachers are able to get vaccinated by next spring (or summer) and the metrics improve to the lower levels the Board voted on for returning to school, what other hurdles must be cleared to return students to the buildings, even if it just K-2, or some other group of students who need in person learning the most? Are there HVAC improvements that still need to be made? How much more funding is needed to address important issues? Do we need a virtual only option for families that want it, which would remove some students from the population that would attend school in person and allow educators with concerns to continue to work remotely?

If DL is here for the long haul, meaning through this year and the beginning of the next school year, if not beyond, it would be helpful to have the BOE acknowledge that. It is easier to accept bad news when you understand the reasoning. I watch the meetings closely and cannot envision any outcome whereby the majority of the BOE (or the union rep.) will accept any return to school unless the pandemic is completely over, meaning there is no community transmission. As they have said repeatedly, it is a matter of teacher and student safety and teaching does not require any teacher risking the life or health of the teacher or family member of a teacher who might be exposed through teaching in person. Will the vaccine really change this, especially if children have not been vaccinated? Will all family member of teachers also be vaccinated? The vaccines will not fix these problems. Hybrid plans involving normal classroom numbers with some learning virtually and others in person are off the table, so the only option would be full return to the buildings. If it isn't "safe" to have in person school during a pandemic, it will not be business as usual in the fall. There is no point continuing to work on return to school plans, and the BOE should make this known to the community now.

Anonymous wrote:Hoco reopening nutjobs:

One of the BOE members explained the voting about Q4, and I kind of feel you read this already, and just want to complain. As explained, the superintendent has the authority without the board, in Q4, to return certain groups. You can read the explanation on these members' FB pages. You won't find it on the crazy pages.
That being said, the vaccine rollout may change a lot of things, regardless. Maybe by Q4, but if they aren't readily available to teachers, no- of course schools aren't going back in the building.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don’t understand: why the Board refuses to be proactive and at least discuss the logistics involved in an eventual return to in person learning. It’s like they have blinders on.

That's the question many people are asking. Is the answer provided by the unhinged poster above who said:

I assure you that the cringeworthy rhetoric is entirely sourced at the feet of

those who feel it is time to discuss school opening when Md has a COVID death total over 5,000. 50 deaths since yesterday.

Over 9,000 cases in Howard County alone.

Does the BOE feel as the unhinged poster does that in light of the current surge, it isn't a good time to discuss going back into the buildings at some point in the future? Almost every poster in this thread has stated that they are not asking to return now, any time during this dangerous surge, or any time soon, but they are still attacked. It's a PANDEMIC we hear over and over again. Yes, we know that. Has the Board instituted a rule that as long as the PANDEMIC exists, there can be no talk of returning students to school? If so, make a motion and take a vote that no planning can take place until some conditions suggesting that the pandemic is over are met. The BOE must make it clear to the public what needs to happen before they will start to plan for a possible plan to return to in person learning, perhaps during the next school year or maybe in 2022. If the Board refuses to talk about it or to plan in earnest, then take planning for a return to in person school off the agenda and save families some time.

Again, when will it be appropriate to discuss a plan, possibly a hybrid plan, for a return to in person learning? Can there be metrics put in place for when we can at least talk about it? When will the four members of the Board who voted against allowing Dr. M. to do the job he is begging for authority to do be willing to give him authority to plan? Again, we are not talking about actually return students to school, but planning for a return. I wish someone from the BOE would answer this question. What stands in the way of working through the complicated logistics of returning teachers and student to school buildings in the far off future? If the BOE does not articulate reasons justifying its refusal to plan, it will continue to lose the confidence of the community.

Anonymous wrote:What I don’t understand: why the Board refuses to be proactive and at least discuss the logistics involved in an eventual return to in person learning. It’s like they have blinders on.

I assure you that the cringeworthy rhetoric is entirely sourced at the feet of

those who feel it is time to discuss school opening when Md has a COVID death total over 5,000. 50 deaths since yesterday.

Over 9,000 cases in Howard County alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you would leave your child in a school system which is failing to educate them because of a warped sense of a public program or the greater good - you are insane.

Your child should come first. If you can afford better, do better.

Ah, and there it is. This pandemic certainly highlighted the real problem in our society, hasn't it? Who lives, who dies, who gets treatment, who doesn't, who can eat, who can't, who keeps their house, who can be educated, by those teachers at the bottom of that societal spectrum who need those jobs so they can eat, keep their house, etc., because they are not given safe alternatives in which to keep their jobs.
So glad you can afford to "do better." So glad your child comes first. Good for YOU.

Of course my child comes first to me, why would they? They are my child? It doesn't mean I don't care about other children. I won't sacrifice my child's learning for the greater good when clearly, the greater good is a dysfunctional system which can't seem to re-open when other larger districts have done so.
Dont' blame the parents who leave when they can. It's not our fault that the system is a wreck.

Hoco? Is that what you are referring to as a wreck? Far from it. They've done a pretty good job in this situation. Maybe you aren't aware since you aren't in it anymore.

LOL Hoco is a wreck and has not done a good job. The board is completely dysfunctional and the teachers union is running everything.

Yeah? Really? Are they running ALL the public schools which have gone virtual? Working on the colleges, too, huh? You watch way too many movies.


The teacher unions are comprised OF TEACHERS... at the county, state, and national level. Entirely teachers. They represent what the teachers want. The teachers, as it would happen, are trying to protect their lives. Shocking.

What scenario do you think is happening- that the unions are making deals independently of teacher's requests in smoke and liquor filled rooms as they bribe the suburban board members with gifts of votes, smoked meats, gift cards, and cash? Then they make sure those teachers stay in line by threatening them with the real possibility of continuous dried out white board markers, vending machines that stick with that Snickers bar hanging just out of reach, and inconvenient parking places near the recycling bin if they don't keep their mouths shut. Maybe they use the PE teachers as the muscle, huh? Right.

The time for lies and misinformation is just about over, thank goodness. I suggest that you get a grip on reality. The current BOE was voted in by reasonable people who have a clear understanding of reality and what's best for students. It just doesn't align with your values, and that is where the real problem is.

Do not compare teachers with grocers and servers. Federal employees, contractors, and most other workers in just about every workplace- lawyers, insurance agents, human resources professionals, bankers, IT
workers, engineers, architects, designers, librarians, everyone - are working virtually to avoid contact with others. Even veterinarians are taking the pets from the cars- no people.

Post 12/12/2020 01:15 Subject: Howard County remote until April 2021.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

You didn't win here- you bailed and are helping to put everyone's lives at risk. Let's not debate this any further, as I am just tired of this nonsense. If you need validation (!), you know where to go for that. Just express your opinion on one of a few local FB sites, I'm sure you know which ones, and the same 25 people will pile on to pat you on the back. You are likely their hero/heroine, sweetheart. Don't waste your time with me.


NP.

Please, please don't try to insult someone using childish phrases like "sweetheart." I am supportive of fully DL right now for most schools, but your cringeworthy and condescending rhetoric fully turns people off to your point. I haven't seen anyone actually engage with the actual science and policy recommendations that are being put forward but rather just snipe at one another.

If anyone is interested in engaging in thoughtful consideration (on their own), a good place to start is AFT's blueprint that was referenced above.

https://www.aft.org/reopen-schools


I assure you that the cringeworthy rhetoric is entirely sourced at the feet of those who feel it is time to discuss school opening when Md has a COVID death total over 5,000. 50 deaths since yesterday. Over 9,000 cases in Howard County alone.

AFT is a union, but it seems you have a problem with unions (?) isn't that correct? There's not going to be any acceptable metric, your favorite word, that allows for that type of risk. What you want is some quantitative rationalization that allows you to send your kid to school when the situation is actually qualitative in nature. There isn't one. We can do that for stores and restaurants because participation is voluntary. It isn't for schools. Everyone has to go.
Additionally, how will the schools be staffed? Teachers will apply for ADA waivers, they may quit en masse as in a neighboring county, they may refuse to go and just sue for their right to workin safe conditions. How will schools function when there has to be a medical leave (no substitute will come, it was hard to keep classrooms supplied with subs before this!), or an incidence which causes a large quarantine. People seem to think it's just so easy to open the doors, but it's the details that no one has thought through. What about law suits front those infected? Workman's Comp issues? The $$ is better spent reinforcing a tangible answer to the crisis now....DL.

You may have no idea what is involved in opening a school in a pandemic, which is understandable, but the answers aren't in your metric algorithm.

No one seems to understand that teachers DO NOT want to put their lives and the lives of their family members in danger for your convenience. They are working as well. They have children in school as well. They are extremely inconvenienced as well. That isn't about metrics. It's about ethics, "sweetheart." Yes, I hope you are cringing. That was my intent


As I said when noting I am a NP (which stands for new poster), I am not the person you have been going back and forth with. I also noted I am fully supportive of DL right now. And yes, of course I know AFT is a union, which is one of the reasons I think their blueprint is so important to consider.

I did say, however, that it is important to engage with the scientific studies and policy proposals being put forward as events continue to unfold in the months ahead. I stand by that, though won’t engage with someone who seems to come from such an angry place.

I do want to remind you of one thing: Participation in stores and dining is not voluntary for the workers are forced to come back to make a living, unable to work from home and outrageously, inadequately supported in unemployment.



Agree. However, those workers can work or not. They can work in other jobs. Stores also have strict population limits, hours were/are limited, etc. Yes, pandemics illuminate equity issues.

Teachers would literally have to leave
their career, not a wage grade job, that is comprised of a built tenure, years of expensive education for which many are still paying off loans for, and certification. Their certification would then be pulled by the state. There is only a limited time to resign each year before the next year's contract kicks in... a few weeks. After that, they are in violation of the contract- and certification is pulled so they can't work elsewhere. They would have to start over at some other time on a beginning salary scale, losing years towards their retirement. They would also lose their health insurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You didn't win here- you bailed and are helping to put everyone's lives at risk. Let's not debate this any further, as I am just tired of this nonsense. If you need validation (!), you know where to go for that. Just express your opinion on one of a few local FB sites, I'm sure you know which ones, and the same 25 people will pile on to pat you on the back. You are likely their hero/heroine, sweetheart. Don't waste your time with me.

NP.

Please, please don't try to insult someone using childish phrases like "sweetheart." I am supportive of fully DL right now for most schools, but your cringeworthy and condescending rhetoric fully turns people off to your point. I haven't seen anyone actually engage with the actual science and policy recommendations that are being put forward but rather just snipe at one another.

If anyone is interested in engaging in thoughtful consideration (on their own), a good place to start is AFT's blueprint that was referenced above.

https://www.aft.org/reopen-schools

I assure you that the cringeworthy rhetoric is entirely sourced at the feet of those who feel it is time to discuss school opening when Md has a COVID death total over 5,000. 50 deaths since yesterday. Over 9,000 cases in Howard County alone.

AFT is a union, but it seems you have a problem with unions (?) isn't that correct? There's not going to be any acceptable metric, your favorite word, that allows for that type of risk. What you want is some quantitative rationalization that allows you to send your kid to school when the situation is actually qualitative in nature. There isn't one. We can do that for stores and restaurants because participation is voluntary. It isn't for schools. Everyone has to go.
Additionally, how will the schools be staffed? Teachers will apply for ADA waivers, they may quit en masse as in a neighboring county, they may refuse to go and just sue for their right to workin safe conditions. How will schools function when there has to be a medical leave (no substitute will come, it was hard to keep classrooms supplied with subs before this!), or an incidence which causes a large quarantine. People seem to think it's just so easy to open the doors, but it's the details that no one has thought through. What about law suits front those infected? Workman's Comp issues? The $$ is better spent reinforcing a tangible answer to the crisis now....DL.

You may have no idea what is involved in opening a school in a pandemic, which is understandable, but the answers aren't in your metric algorithm.

No one seems to understand that teachers DO NOT want to put their lives and the lives of their family members in danger for your convenience. They are working as well. They have children in school as well. They are extremely inconvenienced as well. That isn't about metrics. It's about ethics, "sweetheart." Yes, I hope you are cringing. That was my intent

As I said when noting I am a NP (which stands for new poster), I am not the person you have been going back and forth with. I also noted I am fully supportive of DL right now. And yes, of course I know AFT is a union, which is one of the reasons I think their blueprint is so important to consider.

I did say, however, that it is important to engage with the scientific studies and policy proposals being put forward as events continue to unfold in the months ahead. I stand by that, though won’t engage with someone who seems to come from such an angry place.

I do want to remind you of one thing: Participation in stores and dining is not voluntary for the workers are forced to come back to make a living, unable to work from home and outrageously, inadequately supported in unemployment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You didn't win here- you bailed and are helping to put everyone's lives at risk. Let's not debate this any further, as I am just tired of this nonsense. If you need validation (!), you know where to go for that. Just express your opinion on one of a few local FB sites, I'm sure you know which ones, and the same 25 people will pile on to pat you on the back. You are likely their hero/heroine, sweetheart. Don't waste your time with me.

NP.

Please, please don't try to insult someone using childish phrases like "sweetheart." I am supportive of fully DL right now for most schools, but your cringeworthy and condescending rhetoric fully turns people off to your point. I haven't seen anyone actually engage with the actual science and policy recommendations that are being put forward but rather just snipe at one another.

If anyone is interested in engaging in thoughtful consideration (on their own), a good place to start is AFT's blueprint that was referenced above.

https://www.aft.org/reopen-schools

I assure you that the cringeworthy rhetoric is entirely sourced at the feet of those who feel it is time to discuss school opening when Md has a COVID death total over 5,000. 50 deaths since yesterday. Over 9,000 cases in Howard County alone.

AFT is a union, but it seems you have a problem with unions (?) isn't that correct? There's not going to be any acceptable metric, your favorite word, that allows for that type of risk. What you want is some quantitative rationalization that allows you to send your kid to school when the situation is actually qualitative in nature. There isn't one. We can do that for stores and restaurants because participation is voluntary. It isn't for schools. Everyone has to go.
Additionally, how will the schools be staffed? Teachers will apply for ADA waivers, they may quit en masse as in a neighboring county, they may refuse to go and just sue for their right to workin safe conditions. How will schools function when there has to be a medical leave (no substitute will come, it was hard to keep classrooms supplied with subs before this!), or an incidence which causes a large quarantine. People seem to think it's just so easy to open the doors, but it's the details that no one has thought through. What about law suits front those infected? Workman's Comp issues? The $$ is better spent reinforcing a tangible answer to the crisis now....DL.

You may have no idea what is involved in opening a school in a pandemic, which is understandable, but the answers aren't in your metric algorithm.

No one seems to understand that teachers DO NOT want to put their lives and the lives of their family members in danger for your convenience. They are working as well. They have children in school as well. They are extremely inconvenienced as well. That isn't about metrics. It's about ethics, "sweetheart." Yes, I hope you are cringing. That was my intent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You didn't win here- you bailed and are helping to put everyone's lives at risk. Let's not debate this any further, as I am just tired of this nonsense. If you need validation (!), you know where to go for that. Just express your opinion on one of a few local FB sites, I'm sure you know which ones, and the same 25 people will pile on to pat you on the back. You are likely their hero/heroine, sweetheart. Don't waste your time with me.

NP.

Please, please don't try to insult someone using childish phrases like "sweetheart." I am supportive of fully DL right now for most schools, but your cringeworthy and condescending rhetoric fully turns people off to your point. I haven't seen anyone actually engage with the actual science and policy recommendations that are being put forward but rather just snipe at one another.

If anyone is interested in engaging in thoughtful consideration (on their own), a good place to start is AFT's blueprint that was referenced above.

https://www.aft.org/reopen-schools