Op here. My DH sounds like yours. Is it something that manifests itself later in life? I would never call him bipolar. He’s the same person to me every day. But every so like 0.5 percent of the time he gets these kind of manic behaviors just the way you describe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Thank you for this. STBX is bipolar and cheated with strangers, and at first I thought I owed it to him to treat that cheating as merely a symptom of the bipolar and not an offense in and of itself. But sadly, because of the mental illness, he just wasn't capable of the remorse I needed to see to consider staying. At a certain point, you have to be held accountable for your actions, whatever they're caused by. I'm sad for me, but I'm especially sad for HIM, because wherever he goes, there he'll be.

Interesting. I am PP who wrote the top post. My ex is also bipolar. Did you know that hypersexuality is a little-discussed aspect of manic behavior in bipolar depression? Not everyone becomes hypersexual in mania or hypomania, but many do.

I agree with you that even if a hurtful behavior is driven by mental illness, that does not mean that the spouse is obligated to stay or to continue to expose him/herself to that hurtful behavior. Although I understood that my DH's affairs were driven by manic hypersexuality, I could not and did not want to stay with him and be continually exposed to that. In fairness to him, he was improperly diagnosed and medicated at the time (which was not his fault), but he was also not committed to seeing a psychiatrist and therapist and taking medication, etc. Not being committed to treatment is also quite common in bipolar patients (who wants to give up that nice manic high?). I was not willing to stay with someone who was not willing to get and stay in treatment.

There were a couple DCUMers whose posts about their bipolar spouses helped me SO MUCH in the early days of discovery, and I suspect you were one of them, so thank you.

It was a shock when he was diagnosed (bipolar II, rapid cycling) because he never had seemed "up." Just perpetually anxious (which was how his hypomania presented) and depressed. I have a bipolar family member, I thought I knew all about it, but I saw no signs in DH.

So he got that diagnosis; ok we'll tackle this together; and then, boom, he gave me an STD. When he confessed the lurid details (Craigslist, anonymous), it was so out of character I immediately said "omg hypersexuality," which I knew about from my family member. But the weird thing is he never displayed any other manic behaviors -- no driving fast, no substance abuse, no gambling, no adrenaline sports, nothing. Not even just happy or chipper. Now I know he was taking risks sexually, but his sexual behavior with me never changed (low/medium drive).

So I spent a lot of time just trying to put the puzzle pieces together to understand his strange version of bipolar -- because how will he temper his behavior in the future if he can't recognize when he's hypomanic? Through those aforementioned helpful posts, I picked up on signs that previously had been meaningless: I suspect he's in hypomania when he's chatty with me and unable to read the room, when he chops veggies more recklessly (seriously!), when he ascribes ill intent to my actions (paranoia), when he dedicates himself to one of his (still very boring) hobbies like fishing or guitar...oh, and apparently unprotected sex with strangers. 😐

Unfortunately, even though he has a psychiatrist and therapist and is on a million meds...he's mentally ill. So he says he wants my help and input but then he gets angry and secretive when I gently offer it. All during a time when HE should have been groveling to ME. So I can't even give him that list of clues, because he's no longer receptive now that we are divorcing. And I worry for him and his future partners because his outward symptoms are so slight, even when he's engaged in extraordinarily risky behavior.

I guess I just needed to get that off my chest. Sorry for the tangent. And again, PP, thank you so much for all your thoughtful, informative posts on the topic.

Anonymous wrote:

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

NP here. Thank you for this. STBX is bipolar and cheated with strangers, and at first I thought I owed it to him to treat that cheating as merely a symptom of the bipolar and not an offense in and of itself. But sadly, because of the mental illness, he just wasn't capable of the remorse I needed to see to consider staying. At a certain point, you have to be held accountable for your actions, whatever they're caused by. I'm sad for me, but I'm especially sad for HIM, because wherever he goes, there he'll be.

Interesting. I am PP who wrote the top post. My ex is also bipolar. Did you know that hypersexuality is a little-discussed aspect of manic behavior in bipolar depression? Not everyone becomes hypersexual in mania or hypomania, but many do.

I agree with you that even if a hurtful behavior is driven by mental illness, that does not mean that the spouse is obligated to stay or to continue to expose him/herself to that hurtful behavior. Although I understood that my DH's affairs were driven by manic hypersexuality, I could not and did not want to stay with him and be continually exposed to that. In fairness to him, he was improperly diagnosed and medicated at the time (which was not his fault), but he was also not committed to seeing a psychiatrist and therapist and taking medication, etc. Not being committed to treatment is also quite common in bipolar patients (who wants to give up that nice manic high?). I was not willing to stay with someone who was not willing to get and stay in treatment.

Anonymous wrote:That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Addiction-Perspective-Comprehensive-Understanding-ebook/dp/B0148FS0CC

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

NP here. Thank you for this. STBX is bipolar and cheated with strangers, and at first I thought I owed it to him to treat that cheating as merely a symptom of the bipolar and not an offense in and of itself. But sadly, because of the mental illness, he just wasn't capable of the remorse I needed to see to consider staying. At a certain point, you have to be held accountable for your actions, whatever they're caused by. I'm sad for me, but I'm especially sad for HIM, because wherever he goes, there he'll be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

chumplady.com

She is honest, with a sense of humor.

particular this - https://www.chumplady.com/2020/10/dont-wait-on-that-apology/

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

Yes this is how I feel although my DH is getting help and meds and all of the above while still in the relationship. He does seem somewhat remorseful. Here’s to hoping he has a good therapist to help him. He looked a long time for one that would deal with all the issues he has. Now I’m told I just have to wait and be positive while he works it out. So I’m trying to keep it positive but real as well.

Good luck. Mine interviewed and researched countless therapists before he settled on one and he has been consistent in going twice per week and doing the reading/workbooks in his free time. I am moving on with my life and my happiness won’t be dependent on his. Don’t let people shame you for staying and don’t listen to people who had a spouse that never was willing to do the work. You know what is right for you and your family. Truth be told many marriages survive and thrive after an affair. You just do not hear about them because nobody talks about the infidelity in their marriages most of the time. It’s a secret.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I said I am not leaving unless forced or somehow can’t handle the situation till my oldest graduates high school. I will feel better as well knowing for sure it’s the right decision. I am not that young and a couple of years likely won’t matter in the long run. I will look for a better therapist and ask him the questions posted here. Lots of people leave their spouses after a child leaves the house. It wouldn’t be that awkward then either.

As one who took about 2.5 years to go thru therapy w/ my cheating DH, I want to warn you how much psychic damage staying causes you. The constant lies, gaslighting and manipulation are very disorienting. Protecting myself from his behavior was a major emotional and time suck.

Then there was figuring out how to not sleep with him without stirring up retaliation. By that time I knew what he told me about the initial infidelity was a lie and I knew that he was continuing to cheat. I thought I could get out of sleeping with him and cut it down to something minimal like once a month. I thought I could handle sex with him if it was minimal, but honestly it felt very rape-y and unsafe.

I was finally able to tell him to leave, but the truth is I should have done it much sooner - as soon as the first few months when it was clear that he really didn’t have and wasn’t willing to develop the insight as to why he was cheating.

You may feel that your child will be able to handle it better after Hs is done, but many children whose parents divorce after HS feel betrayed, like they grew up in a lie. They have a hard time forming romantic relationships and often drift from their parents.

Yep. Right here. The only regrets I hear are the people who wasted money on trying to fix things. Rip the band aid off and kick them to the curb ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

chumplady.com

She is honest, with a sense of humor.

particular this - https://www.chumplady.com/2020/10/dont-wait-on-that-apology/

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

I agree with all of this. I have someone that sincerely wants to change whether I stay or not. Fully transparent and forthcoming and working hard, waking up at 6am a couple times a week to go to in-person individual therapy. Juries out. He’s kept it up for over 6 months and gave up alcohol completely. It will be a life-long process for him. I will never forgive the actions. Very few have the motivation and self-insight, but a few do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

chumplady.com

She is honest, with a sense of humor.

particular this - https://www.chumplady.com/2020/10/dont-wait-on-that-apology/

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

Yes this is how I feel although my DH is getting help and meds and all of the above while still in the relationship. He does seem somewhat remorseful. Here’s to hoping he has a good therapist to help him. He looked a long time for one that would deal with all the issues he has. Now I’m told I just have to wait and be positive while he works it out. So I’m trying to keep it positive but real as well.

Anonymous wrote:That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

chumplady.com

She is honest, with a sense of humor.

particular this - https://www.chumplady.com/2020/10/dont-wait-on-that-apology/

You are a rational person. What you want is rational and reasonable - a sincere and full apology, some remorse, amends, and a sense that the betraying spouse has enough of an understanding why they did it so that they can stop themselves from doing it again. The problem is that you want it from someone who has mental illness and is fundamentally not rational, so it is not reasonable to expect that you will get it.

It takes a mentally ill person years to stabilize, IME. Years to find the right psychiatrist, get on the right meds, find a good therapist, be honest with oneself, develop insight, and change habits and develop healthy skills.

There is a difference between being “positive” and being self-delusional. I am positive. My ex cheated. His cheating was not about me or our relationship. It was about him, his relationship/communication/interpersonal skills/illness.

I am positive - I believe he can get his mental illness treated and have a better life. I believe I can create a happy life for myself.

But, I am not self-delusional. He will not get healthy with me. It is not my job to force him to see doctors and therapists; his doing this just to please me is not healthy. It is unlikely that he can recover within the context of our relationship.

I let him go so we both could have healthier lives. That is positive and real.

That’s a good point. He’s trying very hard though so I just feel like I will never be satisfied unless I give it a chance. I’ve now notified a couple of people so they will understand if he can’t be faithful in the future.

On another note, someone mentioned the Empowered Wife. I haven’t gotten to the infidelity part, but am curious if anyone felt this book helped with infidelity. I read the author didn’t have kids. It’s very hard for me not to put my kids first. And while I want to focus on the positive, this books seems a little like gaslighting. Are there other books that are positive while also being more real in a relationship? It seems like she’s saying just be fake and pretend everything is peachy. I am looking for a positive book that is also honest.

Anonymous wrote:As I said I am not leaving unless forced or somehow can’t handle the situation till my oldest graduates high school. I will feel better as well knowing for sure it’s the right decision. I am not that young and a couple of years likely won’t matter in the long run. I will look for a better therapist and ask him the questions posted here. Lots of people leave their spouses after a child leaves the house. It wouldn’t be that awkward then either.

As one who took about 2.5 years to go thru therapy w/ my cheating DH, I want to warn you how much psychic damage staying causes you. The constant lies, gaslighting and manipulation are very disorienting. Protecting myself from his behavior was a major emotional and time suck.

Then there was figuring out how to not sleep with him without stirring up retaliation. By that time I knew what he told me about the initial infidelity was a lie and I knew that he was continuing to cheat. I thought I could get out of sleeping with him and cut it down to something minimal like once a month. I thought I could handle sex with him if it was minimal, but honestly it felt very rape-y and unsafe.

I was finally able to tell him to leave, but the truth is I should have done it much sooner - as soon as the first few months when it was clear that he really didn’t have and wasn’t willing to develop the insight as to why he was cheating.

You may feel that your child will be able to handle it better after Hs is done, but many children whose parents divorce after HS feel betrayed, like they grew up in a lie. They have a hard time forming romantic relationships and often drift from their parents.

^I love the word “skank”. So spot on.

Noun
skank (plural skanks)

(derogatory, slang) A lewd and disreputable person, often female, especially an unattractive person with an air of tawdry promiscuity.

TOP DEFINITION
Skank
A slutty person that doesn't know how to say no to sex.
Friend 1 - that person sure sleeps around.
Friend 2 - yes. The skank.

Anonymous wrote:I'm still really pissed that my DH decided to do this in the middle of a pandemic as if we didn't have enough going on. It does allow me some time away from others though to process although it is very lonely as well. Less interruptions to take my mind off it. I found an individual therapist who is helping me process it.

I found out about an affair 3 weeks into the start of the pandemic. I was thankful there were no social obligations and no small talk I needed to make on sports sidelines, etc. I could hide out at home and people just assumed it was due to the pandemic. I didn’t have to face anyone and put on an awkward false “happy”. Or go into an office with swollen bloodshot eyes. I couldn’t even eat, sleep or function for a few weeks. You are right though—it’s worse because there are zero distractions to take your mind off of it. It just loops through your head 24/7. Only having teletherapy vs in-office therapy sucks. I hate videos/phones. I much would prefer to be in person.

I’m sorry, OP. This is the absolute worst. Finding out after 25-years that somebody is not who you thought they were. That they could act and lie so well. It’s creepy. And don’t get me started on the skank.

Anonymous wrote:I'm still really pissed that my DH decided to do this in the middle of a pandemic as if we didn't have enough going on. It does allow me some time away from others though to process although it is very lonely as well. Less interruptions to take my mind off it. I found an individual therapist who is helping me process it.

Hope you give yourself as much patience and forgiveness as you would offer to a dear friend or family member. You deserve as much kindness and understanding as anyone else would. Center for Relational Recovery website has some great blog posts on this topic and surviving as well