Anonymous wrote:Let's see sexual abuse protected by the Catholic Church. Worst ever still awful.

Racism in the Catholic Church.

Way women are treated in the Catholic Church.

Everyone should be judged by the Catholic Church????

Abortion NO PRO CHOICE when all Catholics become medical doctors come back to me.

Babies born with sin, NO!

Ok, so the Catholic church is corrupt. That doesn't mean there's no god.

I grew up in a Catholic family - went to Catholic school for many years, church every Sunday. I started questioning when we got to a unit in religion class that laid out all the church's beliefs on social issues - I think this was probably 5th grade? It was a big record-scratch moment for me.

I started questioning more after that, and dropped the religion by opting out of Confirmation. My parents were pissed, but I was pretty firm.

It was about 10 years after that that I decided I identified most as an atheist.

Now I'm at the age where friends have kids going through First Communion - and I'm truly shocked that people (or really, people "like me") are still raising their families in the Catholic Church.

Let's see sexual abuse protected by the Catholic Church. Worst ever still awful.

Racism in the Catholic Church.

Way women are treated in the Catholic Church.

Everyone should be judged by the Catholic Church????

Abortion NO PRO CHOICE when all Catholics become medical doctors come back to me.

Babies born with sin, NO!

Anonymous wrote:If you grew up with a religion

Why? Tired of judgement. Tired of idiots. Tired of abuse. Tired of lies. Tired of controlling men.

I think that covers it.

Anonymous wrote:If you grew up with a religion

Church every Sunday, Catholic school, religious parents. The cracks started early- why only altar boys, not girls? Why all of these rules? If I eat a donut I can’t have communion? Why is confession so magical- all I have to do is say sorry after I sin and I’m good again?

Mostly I didn’t think deeply about at all, it was just part of family life. That is until college, when an atheist boyfriend filled me in about the extreme riches of the Vatican. We had conversations and when he asked me what I liked about my religion the answer was the rituals and art. Nothing about faith or God. I knew for sure a few years later when I was in a scary situation and the actual words, “I don’t believe in God”, escaped from my mouth to the surprise of everyone else.

I tried to go back at one point after having kids, maybe because of previous indoctrination I thought I was supposed to but it only reaffirmed my lack of belief.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a deeply religious family. I went to church twice a week and went to religious private school. I was devout as a kid. But from my earliest memories I remember having questions and experiencing what I now understand was skepticism. I was a logical little kid (later became an engineer), and some of what I was taught just didn't make sense. But I was also terrified to admit it and kept my doubts quiet.

In college I stopped going to church as soon as i said goodbye to my parents, even though my mom signed me up (against my wishes) with the campus Christian fellowship group, who proceeded to stalk me for four years. I also met a lot of people with totally different backgrounds, some atheist, and they were all good people. I started losing my terror of disbelief and went through a phase where I called myself an agnostic. I also got very angry at what seemed clearly to be a form of mental control during this period. My questions weren't wrong, but I was made to feel like something evil or wrong just for having questions.

Finally I dropped the pretense entirely and accepted that I was atheist. I still remember the walk I was on when I was finally honest with myself. I remember feeling an enormous sense of peace and relief. It was as if a lifetime source of pain and tension was just alleviated. It's been over thirty years now and I still feel that sense of comfort and relief in being an atheist. I don't have to pretend I am something I am not; I can finally be my authentic self.

Sounds wonderful. Also sounds like descriptions of being "saved". Maybe it's a universal sense of release, irrespective of what is being released.

It is more akin to coming out of the closet and living honestly.

Got it -- it's an affirmation; not a revelation. Its acknowledging something you always had; not finding something new. It's accepting who you are; not changing who you are.

Yes, this is a good way of putting it.

It makes me a little sad though, because it implies that the truth, while always there, was carefully, purposely, hidden from view in favor of a different conclusion that, while unverified and unverifable, pervades society.

Perhaps a good comparison is systemic racism, in which non-caucasians are seen by society at large to be inferior and are treated that way, so that even people who are not inherently racist see non-caucasians as inferior. And noncaucasians, though they may not feel inferior, are forced into an inferior role by the larger society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a deeply religious family. I went to church twice a week and went to religious private school. I was devout as a kid. But from my earliest memories I remember having questions and experiencing what I now understand was skepticism. I was a logical little kid (later became an engineer), and some of what I was taught just didn't make sense. But I was also terrified to admit it and kept my doubts quiet.

In college I stopped going to church as soon as i said goodbye to my parents, even though my mom signed me up (against my wishes) with the campus Christian fellowship group, who proceeded to stalk me for four years. I also met a lot of people with totally different backgrounds, some atheist, and they were all good people. I started losing my terror of disbelief and went through a phase where I called myself an agnostic. I also got very angry at what seemed clearly to be a form of mental control during this period. My questions weren't wrong, but I was made to feel like something evil or wrong just for having questions.

Finally I dropped the pretense entirely and accepted that I was atheist. I still remember the walk I was on when I was finally honest with myself. I remember feeling an enormous sense of peace and relief. It was as if a lifetime source of pain and tension was just alleviated. It's been over thirty years now and I still feel that sense of comfort and relief in being an atheist. I don't have to pretend I am something I am not; I can finally be my authentic self.

Sounds wonderful. Also sounds like descriptions of being "saved". Maybe it's a universal sense of release, irrespective of what is being released.

It is more akin to coming out of the closet and living honestly.

Got it -- it's an affirmation; not a revelation. Its acknowledging something you always had; not finding something new. It's accepting who you are; not changing who you are.

Yes, this is a good way of putting it.

Look around. Religious people are mean and vicious and divisive. Also, my "moment" was watching my sweet uber-religious Mom hold onto belief's that God would save her from a cancer devouring her body. Why would a God allow such a thing to happen to sweet, giving person who gave a large portion of time and money to the church.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think I ever really truly believed. I gave it a honest go...when I was a teenager I became really worried during alter calls and that I was going to hell b/c even though I’d done all the stuff you’re supposed to do (saved, baptised, rededicating). And then I did it all again But the reality is that underneath it never felt real, I was always acting.

Eventually I was just honest with myself and others and things fell into place.

This is basically my story too. I tried really hard to pretend I felt things I didn’t until the cognitive dissonance nearly broke me. Being an atheist puts me in a tricky place sometimes and my family still doesn’t know but at least I’m being honest with myself.

Fascinating -- and not the first time this sentiment has been expressed on this thread. So different from the religious perception of non-believers being "lost sheep" or devil worshippers.

It seems like what people have lost is the promise of an afterlife - which takes faith to believe in. There's no proof at all. And in religions, "faith" is considered a good thing. Really, there couldn't be religion without it, because nothing in the physical world we all live in indicates that there is anything after we die. Just the opposite, in fact.

I hear what you're saying, but respectfully, I don't think this is quite it. It's not as if before losing my faith I believed in everything about an omnipotent God except for the promise of eternal life. Faith goes well beyond belief in the afterlife.

I'm not saying this is you, but I find as a non-believer that religious people are sometimes eager to "explain away" my losing faith by asking whether I really ever believed, and then I explain the conflicted feelings I had and the doubts that started to grow when I was a teenager and then they seem relieved when they say, "ahh, okay then, you never actually believed because you basically had doubts all along." And I don't know why that is, or why it matters whether I lost faith or never had it. But for me personally, even as I had my doubts I still believed, and I still prayed, and I thought hard about it and wrestled with it. And I eventually came out the atheist I am today.

Perhaps they seem relieved because this "proves" that you are different from them, and thus they won't meet your same fate. They doubt sometimes, but you doubted all the time.

Maybe that's why religious people will say "It's normal to doubt" with the expectation that doubts will return to belief. I've even heard people say that having doubts eventually makes their faith even stronger, which seems weird, but not to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think I ever really truly believed. I gave it a honest go...when I was a teenager I became really worried during alter calls and that I was going to hell b/c even though I’d done all the stuff you’re supposed to do (saved, baptised, rededicating). And then I did it all again But the reality is that underneath it never felt real, I was always acting.

Eventually I was just honest with myself and others and things fell into place.

This is basically my story too. I tried really hard to pretend I felt things I didn’t until the cognitive dissonance nearly broke me. Being an atheist puts me in a tricky place sometimes and my family still doesn’t know but at least I’m being honest with myself.

Fascinating -- and not the first time this sentiment has been expressed on this thread. So different from the religious perception of non-believers being "lost sheep" or devil worshippers.

It seems like what people have lost is the promise of an afterlife - which takes faith to believe in. There's no proof at all. And in religions, "faith" is considered a good thing. Really, there couldn't be religion without it, because nothing in the physical world we all live in indicates that there is anything after we die. Just the opposite, in fact.

I hear what you're saying, but respectfully, I don't think this is quite it. It's not as if before losing my faith I believed in everything about an omnipotent God except for the promise of eternal life. Faith goes well beyond belief in the afterlife.

I'm not saying this is you, but I find as a non-believer that religious people are sometimes eager to "explain away" my losing faith by asking whether I really ever believed, and then I explain the conflicted feelings I had and the doubts that started to grow when I was a teenager and then they seem relieved when they say, "ahh, okay then, you never actually believed because you basically had doubts all along." And I don't know why that is, or why it matters whether I lost faith or never had it. But for me personally, even as I had my doubts I still believed, and I still prayed, and I thought hard about it and wrestled with it. And I eventually came out the atheist I am today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think I ever really truly believed. I gave it a honest go...when I was a teenager I became really worried during alter calls and that I was going to hell b/c even though I’d done all the stuff you’re supposed to do (saved, baptised, rededicating). And then I did it all again But the reality is that underneath it never felt real, I was always acting.

Eventually I was just honest with myself and others and things fell into place.

This is basically my story too. I tried really hard to pretend I felt things I didn’t until the cognitive dissonance nearly broke me. Being an atheist puts me in a tricky place sometimes and my family still doesn’t know but at least I’m being honest with myself.

Fascinating -- and not the first time this sentiment has been expressed on this thread. So different from the religious perception of non-believers being "lost sheep" or devil worshippers.

It seems like what people have lost is the promise of an afterlife - which takes faith to believe in. There's no proof at all. And in religions, "faith" is considered a good thing. Really, there couldn't be religion without it, because nothing in the physical world we all live in indicates that there is anything after we die. Just the opposite, in fact.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think I ever really truly believed. I gave it a honest go...when I was a teenager I became really worried during alter calls and that I was going to hell b/c even though I’d done all the stuff you’re supposed to do (saved, baptised, rededicating). And then I did it all again But the reality is that underneath it never felt real, I was always acting.

Eventually I was just honest with myself and others and things fell into place.

This is basically my story too. I tried really hard to pretend I felt things I didn’t until the cognitive dissonance nearly broke me. Being an atheist puts me in a tricky place sometimes and my family still doesn’t know but at least I’m being honest with myself.

* rope

I grew up being forced to go to church and listen to men (always men, always white men) tell me what God said and what Jesus said and what it meant.

Then I read some of the Bible and -- lo and behold! -- that's not what it said. At least in the translation I chose, which was still a translation of a document written by men.

Then I became a writer and an editor and I saw the power that words have and how easily meaning can be changed by the simple flick of a pen.

Any time anyone asks me about religion, I think about the parable of Jesus saying it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

As I'm sure you know, that is most likely a poor translation. The word for "rope" in Aramaic is very similar to the Greek word for "camel." The saying was almost certainly meant to read "it is easier for a role to go through the eye of a needle.." But, the white men decided not to correct their own obvious mistake.

Which is why religion is bunk. It's just white men refusing to admit when they're wrong, and along the way subjugating women and people of color to a horrifying extent.

Not interested. I'll live and die and be remembered by my own resume, thanks. And when I die, I'm gone -- sorry, the idea that there's some idyllic afterlife that you only earn by being devout (and contributing to the church) is such an obvious manipulation it bearly merits mention.

Anonymous wrote:DP. Answering OP's question - I didn't 'become' atheist, I was raised this way and, to this day, do think there is no God - and no afterlife.

This. And it is also how I am raising my own children.