Anonymous
10/02/2020 15:40
Subject: How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Saw this in another thread here
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: ...The Clubs that laud and fawn over certain kids only on their team are the worst. A Coach sets the tone on how a 'team' comes together.
moment everyone truly realizes obsession
Is that why they all leave?
No! Talented players leave because they need talented COACHES. Their youth team coach has no longer the knowledge. It could virtually appear that the youth coach is good just because a team win. . However college recruiters recruit individuals not teams. Oh parents be careful with those that label themselves as talent identification experts. Check their CVs and look what their real experience is. Most seem to be marketers pure propaganda.
We have moved after kids have stagnated. I feel it is necessary after a few years to move somewhere else to progress.
Maybe a separate thread, but curious if you've gotten backlash for being a "team hopper". Genuine question- we've switched a couple times already for similar reasons, but there seems to be increasing skepticism from DS teammates and parents.
if your kid can ball, they can ball.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 15:38
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:I was the PP you just quoted. In my experience, there have been superstar kids who are just not held to the same standards. At U13, it becomes frustrating from an emotional and even egotistical standpoint. But after that, it becomes frustrating because you lose games you could have won if those kids had been held to the same standards. If they were pulled out of games when not performing, and those who worked hard on their own and everyone else recognized as now better had been given a chance to play. If the superstar kid had been taught to pass and create opportunities for teammates as they had been taught to do for him/her, instead of trying to force the ball because they are the goal scorer, not the supporting cast. It becomes frustrating for the kids who sit on the bench as backup to that superstar, watching him play like it is still 7 v 7 or 9 v 9, where "give it to Jimmy" is effective even in high level competition, instead of 11 v 11 where you need more than one goal scorer. My experience is obviously limited, but we had a much, much better time on a team where everyone is taught to be both the supporting cast and the superstar, and those roles become fluid to account for injuries, growth spurts, different teams with different formations, etc. The teams we knew who had a superstar faltered when either the superstar left or the supporting cast left.
Now, at U16 or U17, I can see where having that superstar and utilizing them based on that team, that year, can be a good strategy. But before that, I think it is a great way to hold a team and most of the kids on it back, serving the interests of the "superstar" at most (and sometimes, hurting that kid as well).
You can't always kids to the same standards 100% of the time, but they can be fair. And sometimes ugly losses are needed, but sometimes ugly wins are needed too.. both should be few and far between. Superstar status isn't always confined to the goal scorer, I've watched many teams continue to fail because of the superstar implodes in midfield. That's not leading a team from the coach or player, that's failing the team on both accounts if it keeps happening.
** team where everyone is taught to be both the supporting cast and the superstar, and those roles become fluid**
tha'ts a team my DCs would love to be a part of, and they've experienced it, shortlived , until the coaches f'd it up with their obsession with superstars.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 15:16
Subject: How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Saw this in another thread here
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: ...The Clubs that laud and fawn over certain kids only on their team are the worst. A Coach sets the tone on how a 'team' comes together.
moment everyone truly realizes obsession
Is that why they all leave?
No! Talented players leave because they need talented COACHES. Their youth team coach has no longer the knowledge. It could virtually appear that the youth coach is good just because a team win. . However college recruiters recruit individuals not teams. Oh parents be careful with those that label themselves as talent identification experts. Check their CVs and look what their real experience is. Most seem to be marketers pure propaganda.
We have moved after kids have stagnated. I feel it is necessary after a few years to move somewhere else to progress.
Maybe a separate thread, but curious if you've gotten backlash for being a "team hopper". Genuine question- we've switched a couple times already for similar reasons, but there seems to be increasing skepticism from DS teammates and parents.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 14:55
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:
Good coaches know how this works, as do good players. Parents rarely understand any of this. But the question is why are supporting role players leaving?
Give some parents some credit, some absolutely understand this. I wasn't aware that supporting role players only stayed supporting roles day to day, week to week, year to year, etc from u9 to u19.
not my kid, but getting cropped out of your teams social media photo is kind of a big thing..Because they are not getting enough publicity?
those are 2 extremely good reasons to find a better fit.Respect from the coach? Respect from teammates?
stop projecting, but I've never seen a coach REALLY ask a kid and develop that even if they aren't the preferred or backup. They shuffle them out somewhere else.Because they would rather be playing a different role? (Doesn't everybody?)
LOL... what planet do you live on?Isn't the satisfaction of knowing how good you are sufficient?
again LOL..Why does recognition of others mean so much to people on this board?
Non-expert parents? Hahaha.. they pay you to be the experts, favor a kid this week or next to build confidence, but spread it out, it's not an individual sport, they all need favor sometime over the course of their careers, pro or not, best technical player or not, fastest player or not. What i think they are struggling is how long you, coach, are going to obsess and overhype until they realize it's just one player of a team.I can understand if the coach and club are making poor decisions and favoring kids whom nonexpert parents think are overrated. But I think a lot of parents are struggling with the idea there should be any favoritism in travel soccer.
I don't think anyone *really* objects, a good fit is a good fit. But make sure it's legitimate and not blatant favoritism, nepotism, politics, etc.And if you think all of this is irrelevant at U13 or younger, I assume you also object to the assortment of teams into first, second, third fourth, etc? Why don't a lot of the same points apply to placing kids on different teams based on their perceived level?
TBH, I've seen many spots that appeared on lock for certain players and it has taken a loooong time to figuratively defenestrate those "impact" players at the "good ones". And by that time it's an outside player taking that spot, hmmm...We know there are observable differences in skill and athletic ability at any given point in time -- that's why. Nobody is saying those are locked in. And most clubs have no problems rotating kids among these teams depending on their performance, at least the good ones.
I saw someone post earlier about 90% completion of passes.. so can players use game statistics, more specifically lack of success in them, to bring to their coach in defense of moving an overhyped kid out of that impact position and giving someone else a shot? inshallah
Anonymous
10/02/2020 14:44
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They keep score for a reason. Standings too. Tournaments cups are given to the winners not the most technical. I hear everyones complaints but even if you work to develop virtually all these kids to their maximum. They will almost all fall in the below average for a soccer player in the grand scheme of things. Everyone loves the game but the facts are in the USA soccer is thought of as the sport your less athletic kid has a chance at. Not tall enough or athletic enough for basketball. Not big enough or strong enough for football . Soccer is that great equalizer just teach them to be technical learn possession play, etc. The fact remains the 1% of soccer players that make it to the pros are exceptional athletes first. Which make becoming a technical player that much easier. Just enjoy you kids being competitive and learning life lessons in the process. Let your kids enjoy the process no matter how far it takes them. It may end at U10 or U19 but its their journey and they are the talent you are just the supporting cast know your role and stay in your lane.
I understand the point of view, but have you never seen the superstars at U10 and U11 who do not hold up through puberty, yet maintain that status in the eyes of the coach? While late bloomers are overlooked and remain in their supporting role? I have seen those supporting role kids leave teams for just that reason, only to have the coach and whole team suffer, learning the hard way that they had been relying on those kids to make their superstars shine. It does not make sense to pigeonhole pre-pubescent athletes as stars or supporting roles, and craft your team and their development around that.
Good coaches know how this works, as do good players. Parents rarely understand any of this. But the question is why are supporting role players leaving? Because they are not getting enough publicity? Respect from the coach? Respect from teammates? Because they would rather be playing a different role? (Doesn't everybody?) Isn't the satisfaction of knowing how good you are sufficient? Why does recognition of others mean so much to people on this board? I can understand if the coach and club are making poor decisions and favoring kids whom nonexpert parents think are overrated. But I think a lot of parents are struggling with the idea there should be any favoritism in travel soccer. And if you think all of this is irrelevant at U13 or younger, I assume you also object to the assortment of teams into first, second, third fourth, etc? Why don't a lot of the same points apply to placing kids on different teams based on their perceived level? We know there are observable differences in skill and athletic ability at any given point in time -- that's why. Nobody is saying those are locked in. And most clubs have no problems rotating kids among these teams depending on their performance, at least the good ones.
I was the PP you just quoted. In my experience, there have been superstar kids who are just not held to the same standards. At U13, it becomes frustrating from an emotional and even egotistical standpoint. But after that, it becomes frustrating because you lose games you could have won if those kids had been held to the same standards. If they were pulled out of games when not performing, and those who worked hard on their own and everyone else recognized as now better had been given a chance to play. If the superstar kid had been taught to pass and create opportunities for teammates as they had been taught to do for him/her, instead of trying to force the ball because they are the goal scorer, not the supporting cast. It becomes frustrating for the kids who sit on the bench as backup to that superstar, watching him play like it is still 7 v 7 or 9 v 9, where "give it to Jimmy" is effective even in high level competition, instead of 11 v 11 where you need more than one goal scorer. My experience is obviously limited, but we had a much, much better time on a team where everyone is taught to be both the supporting cast and the superstar, and those roles become fluid to account for injuries, growth spurts, different teams with different formations, etc. The teams we knew who had a superstar faltered when either the superstar left or the supporting cast left.
Now, at U16 or U17, I can see where having that superstar and utilizing them based on that team, that year, can be a good strategy. But before that, I think it is a great way to hold a team and most of the kids on it back, serving the interests of the "superstar" at most (and sometimes, hurting that kid as well).
Anonymous
10/02/2020 13:50
Subject: How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Saw this in another thread here
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: ...The Clubs that laud and fawn over certain kids only on their team are the worst. A Coach sets the tone on how a 'team' comes together.
moment everyone truly realizes obsession
Is that why they all leave?
No! Talented players leave because they need talented COACHES. Their youth team coach has no longer the knowledge. It could virtually appear that the youth coach is good just because a team win. . However college recruiters recruit individuals not teams. Oh parents be careful with those that label themselves as talent identification experts. Check their CVs and look what their real experience is. Most seem to be marketers pure propaganda.
We have moved after kids have stagnated. I feel it is necessary after a few years to move somewhere else to progress.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 13:43
Subject: How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Saw this in another thread here
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: ...The Clubs that laud and fawn over certain kids only on their team are the worst. A Coach sets the tone on how a 'team' comes together.
moment everyone truly realizes obsession
Is that why they all leave?
No! Talented players leave because they need talented COACHES. Their youth team coach has no longer the knowledge. It could virtually appear that the youth coach is good just because a team win. . However college recruiters recruit individuals not teams. Oh parents be careful with those that label themselves as talent identification experts. Check their CVs and look what their real experience is. Most seem to be marketers pure propaganda.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 13:24
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
^that's a good part why a lot of teams start losing in the older years. When that happens, they finally cut those players that kept their spot year to year. Then, the parents are all shocked and outraged 'where's the loyalty?'
Anonymous
10/02/2020 12:48
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They keep score for a reason. Standings too. Tournaments cups are given to the winners not the most technical. I hear everyones complaints but even if you work to develop virtually all these kids to their maximum. They will almost all fall in the below average for a soccer player in the grand scheme of things. Everyone loves the game but the facts are in the USA soccer is thought of as the sport your less athletic kid has a chance at. Not tall enough or athletic enough for basketball. Not big enough or strong enough for football . Soccer is that great equalizer just teach them to be technical learn possession play, etc. The fact remains the 1% of soccer players that make it to the pros are exceptional athletes first. Which make becoming a technical player that much easier. Just enjoy you kids being competitive and learning life lessons in the process. Let your kids enjoy the process no matter how far it takes them. It may end at U10 or U19 but its their journey and they are the talent you are just the supporting cast know your role and stay in your lane.
I understand the point of view, but have you never seen the superstars at U10 and U11 who do not hold up through puberty, yet maintain that status in the eyes of the coach? While late bloomers are overlooked and remain in their supporting role? I have seen those supporting role kids leave teams for just that reason, only to have the coach and whole team suffer, learning the hard way that they had been relying on those kids to make their superstars shine. It does not make sense to pigeonhole pre-pubescent athletes as stars or supporting roles, and craft your team and their development around that.
Good coaches know how this works, as do good players. Parents rarely understand any of this. But the question is why are supporting role players leaving? Because they are not getting enough publicity? Respect from the coach? Respect from teammates? Because they would rather be playing a different role? (Doesn't everybody?) Isn't the satisfaction of knowing how good you are sufficient? Why does recognition of others mean so much to people on this board? I can understand if the coach and club are making poor decisions and favoring kids whom nonexpert parents think are overrated. But I think a lot of parents are struggling with the idea there should be any favoritism in travel soccer. And if you think all of this is irrelevant at U13 or younger, I assume you also object to the assortment of teams into first, second, third fourth, etc? Why don't a lot of the same points apply to placing kids on different teams based on their perceived level? We know there are observable differences in skill and athletic ability at any given point in time -- that's why. Nobody is saying those are locked in. And most clubs have no problems rotating kids among these teams depending on their performance, at least the good ones.
They leave because we label them young and the label sticks no matter how much they progress. We enforce this by every tryout grouping kids and assigning weight to what team/team level they are coming from and then place them in groups/fields accordingly. The kid is labeled and then always put in the sh*t group.
They only way out of the cycle is to train heavily on your own and get a fresh set of eyes that doesn't just think "B team player, etc.".
We actually lied about my kid's team placement and he got put on the 'good' field at tryouts and made the team and became a starter/key player. If he was slotted to the 'low team' tryout field that never would have happened. This starts as early as U9 in this area.
God, it's awful to think a kid can never 'change' or 'develop'.
I see so many players that should no longer be on that top team and should have moved down seasons ago, yet their reputation precedes them even when the results aren't there anymore.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 12:44
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They keep score for a reason. Standings too. Tournaments cups are given to the winners not the most technical. I hear everyones complaints but even if you work to develop virtually all these kids to their maximum. They will almost all fall in the below average for a soccer player in the grand scheme of things. Everyone loves the game but the facts are in the USA soccer is thought of as the sport your less athletic kid has a chance at. Not tall enough or athletic enough for basketball. Not big enough or strong enough for football . Soccer is that great equalizer just teach them to be technical learn possession play, etc. The fact remains the 1% of soccer players that make it to the pros are exceptional athletes first. Which make becoming a technical player that much easier. Just enjoy you kids being competitive and learning life lessons in the process. Let your kids enjoy the process no matter how far it takes them. It may end at U10 or U19 but its their journey and they are the talent you are just the supporting cast know your role and stay in your lane.
I understand the point of view, but have you never seen the superstars at U10 and U11 who do not hold up through puberty, yet maintain that status in the eyes of the coach? While late bloomers are overlooked and remain in their supporting role? I have seen those supporting role kids leave teams for just that reason, only to have the coach and whole team suffer, learning the hard way that they had been relying on those kids to make their superstars shine. It does not make sense to pigeonhole pre-pubescent athletes as stars or supporting roles, and craft your team and their development around that.
Every.day, Man.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 12:18
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They keep score for a reason. Standings too. Tournaments cups are given to the winners not the most technical. I hear everyones complaints but even if you work to develop virtually all these kids to their maximum. They will almost all fall in the below average for a soccer player in the grand scheme of things. Everyone loves the game but the facts are in the USA soccer is thought of as the sport your less athletic kid has a chance at. Not tall enough or athletic enough for basketball. Not big enough or strong enough for football . Soccer is that great equalizer just teach them to be technical learn possession play, etc. The fact remains the 1% of soccer players that make it to the pros are exceptional athletes first. Which make becoming a technical player that much easier. Just enjoy you kids being competitive and learning life lessons in the process. Let your kids enjoy the process no matter how far it takes them. It may end at U10 or U19 but its their journey and they are the talent you are just the supporting cast know your role and stay in your lane.
I understand the point of view, but have you never seen the superstars at U10 and U11 who do not hold up through puberty, yet maintain that status in the eyes of the coach? While late bloomers are overlooked and remain in their supporting role? I have seen those supporting role kids leave teams for just that reason, only to have the coach and whole team suffer, learning the hard way that they had been relying on those kids to make their superstars shine. It does not make sense to pigeonhole pre-pubescent athletes as stars or supporting roles, and craft your team and their development around that.
Good coaches know how this works, as do good players. Parents rarely understand any of this. But the question is why are supporting role players leaving? Because they are not getting enough publicity? Respect from the coach? Respect from teammates? Because they would rather be playing a different role? (Doesn't everybody?) Isn't the satisfaction of knowing how good you are sufficient? Why does recognition of others mean so much to people on this board? I can understand if the coach and club are making poor decisions and favoring kids whom nonexpert parents think are overrated. But I think a lot of parents are struggling with the idea there should be any favoritism in travel soccer. And if you think all of this is irrelevant at U13 or younger, I assume you also object to the assortment of teams into first, second, third fourth, etc? Why don't a lot of the same points apply to placing kids on different teams based on their perceived level? We know there are observable differences in skill and athletic ability at any given point in time -- that's why. Nobody is saying those are locked in. And most clubs have no problems rotating kids among these teams depending on their performance, at least the good ones.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 12:10
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:They keep score for a reason. Standings too. Tournaments cups are given to the winners not the most technical. I hear everyones complaints but even if you work to develop virtually all these kids to their maximum. They will almost all fall in the below average for a soccer player in the grand scheme of things. Everyone loves the game but the facts are in the USA soccer is thought of as the sport your less athletic kid has a chance at. Not tall enough or athletic enough for basketball. Not big enough or strong enough for football . Soccer is that great equalizer just teach them to be technical learn possession play, etc. The fact remains the 1% of soccer players that make it to the pros are exceptional athletes first. Which make becoming a technical player that much easier. Just enjoy you kids being competitive and learning life lessons in the process. Let your kids enjoy the process no matter how far it takes them. It may end at U10 or U19 but its their journey and they are the talent you are just the supporting cast know your role and stay in your lane.
I understand the point of view, but have you never seen the superstars at U10 and U11 who do not hold up through puberty, yet maintain that status in the eyes of the coach? While late bloomers are overlooked and remain in their supporting role? I have seen those supporting role kids leave teams for just that reason, only to have the coach and whole team suffer, learning the hard way that they had been relying on those kids to make their superstars shine. It does not make sense to pigeonhole pre-pubescent athletes as stars or supporting roles, and craft your team and their development around that.
Anonymous
10/02/2020 11:55
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Bottom line is the best players in every sport are superior athletes 1st.
As the world turns...
the bottom line really is the best clubs in every sport are superior recruiters 1st?
Not true both Kobe and Lebron skipped the recruiting process and entered the NBA Draft straight out of HS
Anonymous
10/02/2020 10:34
Subject: How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Saw this in another thread here
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: ...The Clubs that laud and fawn over certain kids only on their team are the worst. A Coach sets the tone on how a 'team' comes together.
moment everyone truly realizes obsession
Is that why they all leave?
Anonymous
10/02/2020 10:15
Subject: Re:How often and bad is this obsession at clubs and teams?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think as the players get older, they start to levitate
I thought science had now shown that levitation was impossible?
"Why do we levitate, when we mean gravitate?
We need to meditate on what makes kids great.
And we all know the ones who accelerate by the time they're eight."
- Jesse Jackson, ghost writing for Dr. Seuss
As I get older it seem gravity is get stronger.