Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine expected me to stay home and handle all of the kid and house stuff.....while still making 6 figures. Not sure how that works. But when I was SAHM, he resented that I didn’t make money. When I worked, he resented that it infringed on his career.

I think males in our society are raised to be entitled, while females are raised to sacrifice for others. They’re deep seated cultural beliefs that most people don’t even realize they have.

I see it even among SAH parents - SAHMs do way more for their kids, while the SAHDs I see are focused on themselves and ignore their kids, play on their phone, etc.

+1

I was SAH for about six months after my daughter was born and have been WFH with some part-time childcare since then. I view my time with my child as an opportunity to spend time with my child, not a vacation. I have always invested a lot of energy into making sure we are doing things that are stimulating for her, reading to her, paying attention to what she eats, to her schedule, to making sure she is getting enough sleep, to teaching her about the world and also just having lots of quality time with her playing and cuddling and connecting.

My husband can do this for one hour, max. Even that is pushing it -- he's usually on his phone in 15 minutes. When I am working on weekends and he is with our child, she will always wind up coming to find me at reliable times because she is getting hungry or bored and he isn't paying close enough attention to her or to the time. I frequently have to stop my work to pop my head in and say "Has she eaten lunch?" He would also let her watch hours of television uninterrupted if he didn't know I'd be pissed about this. I am certain that when I have to be out of the house for work events and he is home with her, that he plops her in front of the television for hours. Nevermind that if one of our sitters had ever done this with her, he'd be livid ("what are we paying her for?").

Also when he stays home with her so I can do a work thing, I always come home to a messy house and not only is there no dinner in the works, he has barely thought about it. When I am home with our daughter, I'm always keeping track of how messy the house is, cleaning as I'm going, doing a deep clean once a week (all while also getting work done and supervising our sitter). I plan meals several days in advance so we are never at a total loss for what to do for dinner (even if it's just "okay, casserole monday, leftovers tuesday, then take-out wednesday so we can have a break").

The pandemic has made him a little better, but the pull of his phone, zoning out, and not caring is still very strong. He still approaches our lives much as he did when we were in our late 20s with no kid and two jobs out of the house. It doesn't occur to him that we can't just postpone Saturday breakfast until he feels like it -- our kid will lose her mind if she doesn't get breakfast until 11:30. We can't just ignore her schedule -- if she doesn't take naps eat timely meals and go to bed at a reasonable time, she becomes grumpy and challenging. But then when he does this stuff he blames her (she doesn't listen to me like she listens to you) instead of looking for ways to parent better so that she stays regulated. I don't even consider myself a strict or rule-following mom in this respect -- I just pay attention to my kid and try to anticipate her basic needs and then respond to her behavior with solutions instead of just assuming she's an asshole.

I hope that as our daughter gets older and can talk to him more (and regulate some of her needs on her own) that he will grow into his role more. I have to be careful not to criticize or suggest too much because he gets defensive. But there's no question to me that I am an active, attentive parent and he is not. He could not cut it as a SAHD, and if he did it, I think we'd be dealing with a ton of behavioral issues right now. I think his parents set terrible examples for him and that he honestly has no idea how to parent young children and most of what he is able to do well now is because I have set a good example. It's alarming. No one taught me how to do this either, but I a have been motivated to learn. I don't get why he is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

How does this relate to the original question though?

It’s men not stepping up. Everything falls on women so that’s why they sah. Men just assume their wives will do the heavy lift with children.

Dh is an excellent father btw and I work and have a great career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

My DH thought i would SAH because he made 3x what I make (and I have a good paying career myself) and doesn’t trust paid caregivers.

But since he is not your father, he should not be deciding for you.

I think women who marry wealthy men better confirm that they will have an equal voice in family decisions.

And I do think the more your life approximates that of a "kept woman," the fewer legs you will have to stand on.

(You can't have it both ways. Expect to be cared for like a child, expect to be treated like a child)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

How does this relate to the original question though?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally have never heard a woman becoming full time SAHM in the DC area after kids.

Really, I know several. A few of them have some kind of income, like they sub at their kids school sometimes or have a hobby they make money from sometimes. But not making real money, maybe just enough to put in a savings account for a rainy day or to be able to go on nicer vacations.

I agree it's not the norm because the cost of living is high here, but I know people in many different living situations. Many two-income families with jobs outside the home (well, normally) but also many other set ups including where one partner works from home with their own business or where one spouse takes on periodic contract work but can stay home with kids during the summer, etc. I don't get this thing where people only know two-income families. I think it must be people who only socialize with people they work with. If you know your neighbors or get to know other families at school, you'll find a lot more variety than that.

I know several especially among military and foreign service wives

Almost every single family in my neighborhood is dual income with kids. It probably just depends on your social class. I can see either really low income wives (somebody said military or substitute teaching) or wives with REALLY high income husbands (like > 400k) quitting their jobs. But in my neighborhood, where the average individual earns $150k, I think it's probably the sweet spot where halving your income does not in any way make up for saved daycare or other expenses, and where it's just too much of a sacrifice long term for the woman to stay home. On the flipside, having just one 150k income is not really enough in the DC area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

As long as SO many women model this "lifestyle" for future generations, it will be hard to change.

There are so many wealthy women on this forum who won't OWN this part of the legacy they are leaving.

It is one thing before your kids start school. It is quite another when your kids are in middle school and high school.
Why is it okay that someone pays for your food and housing, like they do for their children?

The height of irony are the stay at home moms who complain that their husbands don't do enough around the house. How much do you do around his office?

This is coming from a woman, who works outside the home and is a good mom also.

Your bias against sahm is strong. It's not for you. Fine. When you talk about the dh buying the food, etc as if she's a kid, the critical element you are missing is HER facilitation of HIS success.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

My DH thought i would SAH because he made 3x what I make (and I have a good paying career myself) and doesn’t trust paid caregivers.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally have never heard a woman becoming full time SAHM in the DC area after kids.

Really, I know several. A few of them have some kind of income, like they sub at their kids school sometimes or have a hobby they make money from sometimes. But not making real money, maybe just enough to put in a savings account for a rainy day or to be able to go on nicer vacations.

I agree it's not the norm because the cost of living is high here, but I know people in many different living situations. Many two-income families with jobs outside the home (well, normally) but also many other set ups including where one partner works from home with their own business or where one spouse takes on periodic contract work but can stay home with kids during the summer, etc. I don't get this thing where people only know two-income families. I think it must be people who only socialize with people they work with. If you know your neighbors or get to know other families at school, you'll find a lot more variety than that.

I know several especially among military and foreign service wives

Almost every single family in my neighborhood is dual income with kids. It probably just depends on your social class. I can see either really low income wives (somebody said military or substitute teaching) or wives with REALLY high income husbands (like > 400k) quitting their jobs. But in my neighborhood, where the average individual earns $150k, I think it's probably the sweet spot where halving your income does not in any way make up for saved daycare or other expenses, and where it's just too much of a sacrifice long term for the woman to stay home. On the flipside, having just one 150k income is not really enough in the DC area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

As long as SO many women model this "lifestyle" for future generations, it will be hard to change.

There are so many wealthy women on this forum who won't OWN this part of the legacy they are leaving.

It is one thing before your kids start school. It is quite another when your kids are in middle school and high school.
Why is it okay that someone pays for your food and housing, like they do for their children?

The height of irony are the stay at home moms who complain that their husbands don't do enough around the house. How much do you do around his office?

This is coming from a woman, who works outside the home and is a good mom also.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Literally have never heard a woman becoming full time SAHM in the DC area after kids.

Really, I know several. A few of them have some kind of income, like they sub at their kids school sometimes or have a hobby they make money from sometimes. But not making real money, maybe just enough to put in a savings account for a rainy day or to be able to go on nicer vacations.

I agree it's not the norm because the cost of living is high here, but I know people in many different living situations. Many two-income families with jobs outside the home (well, normally) but also many other set ups including where one partner works from home with their own business or where one spouse takes on periodic contract work but can stay home with kids during the summer, etc. I don't get this thing where people only know two-income families. I think it must be people who only socialize with people they work with. If you know your neighbors or get to know other families at school, you'll find a lot more variety than that.

I know several especially among military and foreign service wives

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with a woman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I know one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of expecting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

I can tell you why.
Why does the wife stay home
- She makes substantially less than the husband because of career choice.
- She is being paid less than other male counterparts and she is facing the glass ceiling at work
- She is the one who is lactating, who gave birth, who is exhausted, who did not heal from the labor because she did not have maternity leabe
- She is the one who is dealing with toxicity at work and hostile/sexist work environment
- The baby or an older child has special needs and someone needs to be home
- A family member is sick or elderly and she needs to be the care provider
- Childcare is frequently failing and/or her children are failing to thrive mentally, physically or emotionally

Why does the husband stay home
- He is making less substantially less money than the wife
- He has pension from army, police or firefighting and he is retired, while wife has a great career
- He has dreams of starting his own private company or has some gig lined up or he is writing a book
- He has disability that necessitates that he stays at home.

Men stay at home when they need to look after their interests. Women stay home to sacrifice her own interests for the family. If women thought and acted like men, humans would become extinct.