Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

No, in this context they are not comparable. If a therapist finds out that one partner is physically abusing the other, the therapist's focus has to be on making sure the abused partner is physically safe, to avoid things like severe physical injury and death. After that, typically its recommended that the partners engage in individual counseling rather than/before pursuing couples counseling, again, to protect the victim's physical safety.

The same dynamic is not in play with an affair.

You are incorrect about how therapists treat affairs.

My sister and her DH were allegedly reconciling after his affair. When my sister discovered that it was ongoing, their couple’s therapist immediately fired them. She said that the DH had lied throughout therapy and that she could thus not continue treating them. She also told me sister that she couldn’t work with an active abuser like the DH.

Totally different from this scenario, where the couple came to therapy because of the affair. You are talking about a case where one partner actively lied to the therapist throughout therapy, which is a hard no.

Also, unless you were in the room when this happened, you don’t actually know what the therapist said.

It’s not different because 0P said her husband is lying. In addition, his responsibility of a therapist to recognize and call out when somebody is being emotionally abuse to ensure their emotional safety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

No, in this context they are not comparable. If a therapist finds out that one partner is physically abusing the other, the therapist's focus has to be on making sure the abused partner is physically safe, to avoid things like severe physical injury and death. After that, typically its recommended that the partners engage in individual counseling rather than/before pursuing couples counseling, again, to protect the victim's physical safety.

The same dynamic is not in play with an affair.

You are incorrect about how therapists treat affairs.

My sister and her DH were allegedly reconciling after his affair. When my sister discovered that it was ongoing, their couple’s therapist immediately fired them. She said that the DH had lied throughout therapy and that she could thus not continue treating them. She also told me sister that she couldn’t work with an active abuser like the DH.

Totally different from this scenario, where the couple came to therapy because of the affair. You are talking about a case where one partner actively lied to the therapist throughout therapy, which is a hard no.

Also, unless you were in the room when this happened, you don’t actually know what the therapist said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, depending on how you saw the texts, they are probably not admissible in court and you could be at risk for criminal wiretapping charges.

There is no need to prove an affair in court.

Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.

OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.

But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

No, in this context they are not comparable. If a therapist finds out that one partner is physically abusing the other, the therapist's focus has to be on making sure the abused partner is physically safe, to avoid things like severe physical injury and death. After that, typically its recommended that the partners engage in individual counseling rather than/before pursuing couples counseling, again, to protect the victim's physical safety.

The same dynamic is not in play with an affair.

You are incorrect about how therapists treat affairs.

My sister and her DH were allegedly reconciling after his affair. When my sister discovered that it was ongoing, their couple’s therapist immediately fired them. She said that the DH had lied throughout therapy and that she could thus not continue treating them. She also told me sister that she couldn’t work with an active abuser like the DH.

Anonymous wrote:I can't do therapy until all parties stipulate that the affair was wrong.

Am I nuts?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

No, in this context they are not comparable. If a therapist finds out that one partner is physically abusing the other, the therapist's focus has to be on making sure the abused partner is physically safe, to avoid things like severe physical injury and death. After that, typically its recommended that the partners engage in individual counseling rather than/before pursuing couples counseling, again, to protect the victim's physical safety.

The same dynamic is not in play with an affair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Condemnation is for the clergy. Go to a priest.

in my first marriage, our secular couple’s therapist was really chill and neutral until he learned about my then-H’s years long, expensive emotional affair. He never used the word wrong, but he said damaging, breach of trust, gaslighting, and a number of other things that were pretty condemning. It temporarily helped us reconcile, but most of all, it helped me move on to divorce eventually.

Did your therapist say all of that in the first session?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????