Anonymous
02/15/2020 07:12
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
If my son made the independent free thinking choice to go through the rigorous application process for the service academies, (while his peers and their parents looked down their noses at his free thinking choice) and was accepted and decided to go I would be incredibly proud and impressed and relieved that whatever he ended up doing career wise he will will have made unbelievable connections.
Anonymous
02/15/2020 06:54
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Yes. I am extremely impressed at Ivy League. I am more impressed at West Point.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 22:12
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Let's see...
People who chose to go to the military academies are willing to die for OP's right to right to free speech.
Harvard? No.
Yale? No.
etc? No.
People who chose to go to the military academies are willing to die for OP's right to right to free speech.
Harvard? No.
Yale? No.
etc? No.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 22:09
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes very
Honestly I'd consider them up there with Harvard and Yale too. In addition to needing great grades, you need the athletic ability to be there.
Plus the commitment to a service career, risk of going to war, etc.
There's a reason why a lot of future politicians come from the academies.
LOL. You are FUNNY!
They don't want independent thinkers. They want kids who follow orders without questions. Certain types of kids.
Do you know anyone in the military?
A Second Lieutenant will command 25-50 soldiers. Responsible (with the Platoon Sergeant) for everything- including all equipment. A 2LT is 21-22 y.o.
A Captain will command 100-200 soldiers. Responsible (with Senior Enlisted leadership) for everything- including, sometimes, millions of dollars of equipment. A Captain is 24-28.
What is the average Ivy League grad in charge of? Themselves? A desk? Someone’s money? Surely not many responsible for someone else’s safety and well-being. And I say that as an Ivy league grad.
Do you truly think the education at the academies is designed to churn out service men and women who can do nothing but follow orders? These young men and women are the ones giving the orders based on the mission provided. To believe they are merely robots is misguided and naive.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 15:30
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I know quite a few service academy grads and I think of them as hard-working, goal-oriented, self-disciplined, athletic doers who generally have their acts together, but I don't necessarily find them particularly smart, creative, or innovative as a whole. Bright enough for sure, and nothing to look down on, but if they didn't go to the academies, most of them wouldn't have gone to a top academic university or college. I mean, does Mike Pompeo really strike anyone as the sharpest tool in the shed? Or Roy Moore? Or Oliver North? So academically, I don't think they are that prestigious; their prestige comes from other qualities. It's really apples and oranges.
I have also worked with one, and noticed that the guy could work in a pressure cooker, but did not stand out as very smart. The guy was very friendly and pleasant to work with.
Agree. They aren't smart but they're very patriotic and mission-driven. Since most corporations were built on a military model of chain of command leadership ... military guys can do well in corporations. That just means they know how to follow orders and buckle down ... not that they have high IQs or anything. Your examples are good. Pompeo seems as dumb as a brick and so did North.
OP .. they are not "prestigious" ... that is the wrong word choice.
Around here, the academy grads I know did their 20+ years in the military, had grad school paid for (one of DH's best friends went to Harvard's Kennedy School), and now work for management consulting companies, drawing a big salary on top of their officer's pension. Makes for a nice life.
Is a 20 year military pension a decent chunk of change annually -- it also includes free VA health care for life? Does the 20 years to earn a pension start at age 18yo when you get on campus or not until you graduate at 22yo? What's the minimum required to serve after graduating from West Point? Do you still get a small pension if you only serve for the minimum?
You are obligated to five years of actual service after graduating, and then three more in reserves. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/07/15/service-academy-graduates-could-see-longer-military-obligations/ You can choose to stay active duty, but there isn't a guarantee that you will keep being promoted. Of course, coming from an academy certainly helps, but if you aren't promoted, you need to get out. You don't get any pension if you don't make it to 20 yrs. unless you opt for the Blended Retirement (https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/2018/10/22/not-many-troops-are-opting-into-the-new-retirement-system/).
As for how much you make in retirement after 20 yrs. It depends on what rank you are. But, if you are a Lt. Col, it ends up being about $45K (before taxes) per year after retirement. Health care is provided after 20 yrs., but it's not exactly free. Compared to buying insurance on the open market or even paying a portion via your employer, it is low cost. That changes once you hit 62. Then you are forced off of Tricare and into Medicare + Tricare for Life. DH will actually have to pay $3500 per year once he hits 62. That's kind of a harsh hit. But, I guess TFL will pick up a lot of the cost-sharing that normally a person would pay under Medicare. So, while it is a big hit, and it is more than he pays now for all medical expenses now, it should act as a "ceiling" for his medical expenses (at least for things that are covered by Medicare). Prior to Medicare, you either have Tricare Prime or Tricare Select. The costs of those have been increased recently. It's not free. https://www.tricare.mil/pharmacycosts
Anonymous
02/14/2020 12:14
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Well, no. I would only consider the op 5-7 LAC's prestigious.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 12:11
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:My high school boyfriend went to a service academy (he actually didn't get in anywhere else). It's a really interesting environment. They will not let you fail. College is such a time of independence, and there is zero independence at the academy. They assign you a tutor, make you come to study sessions, your professor meets with you if you're struggling, and it's all mandatory. Contrast that to a major university where all the responsibility for getting help falls on the student. I think that when you require all students to take physics and calculus, you have to have such systems in place though, or a good portion wouldn't make it.
The school gives you a local "host family" who is your home on weekends, can drive you places, etc--so that level of independence is gone too. You eat in the cafeteria all four years, so you never have to manage a budget or cooking, just academics (with aforementioned tutors and study groups assigned to you).
I remember it feeling like an extension of high school when I would visit, and how different it was from my own school.
I would think very highly of a female graduating from the academy, because holy cow the level of harassment I witnessed was insane, and anyone who can survive that can get through anything. The guys were okay--some were super smart, some super patriotic, most were fairly middle of the road and were chasing a free education (at least the ones in my bf's social circle). A handful were prior enlisted folks going through to get the officer credentials. Quite a few had gone to the prep school for a year first to get their grades up to be eligible.
This was mid 2000's. Maybe it's changed? I wouldn't think of it as prestigious, but I would think of a graduate as someone who would be dependable and goal oriented, which is a fabulous thing for most would be employers to seek.
The #1 thing that has changed is, today, your college is probably far more coddling than it was then, but the service academy stayed the same.
We live in Annapolis and the "host family" aspect is alive and well but it's not really the dynamic you describe.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 12:07
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
My high school boyfriend went to a service academy (he actually didn't get in anywhere else). It's a really interesting environment. They will not let you fail. College is such a time of independence, and there is zero independence at the academy. They assign you a tutor, make you come to study sessions, your professor meets with you if you're struggling, and it's all mandatory. Contrast that to a major university where all the responsibility for getting help falls on the student. I think that when you require all students to take physics and calculus, you have to have such systems in place though, or a good portion wouldn't make it.
The school gives you a local "host family" who is your home on weekends, can drive you places, etc--so that level of independence is gone too. You eat in the cafeteria all four years, so you never have to manage a budget or cooking, just academics (with aforementioned tutors and study groups assigned to you).
I remember it feeling like an extension of high school when I would visit, and how different it was from my own school.
I would think very highly of a female graduating from the academy, because holy cow the level of harassment I witnessed was insane, and anyone who can survive that can get through anything. The guys were okay--some were super smart, some super patriotic, most were fairly middle of the road and were chasing a free education (at least the ones in my bf's social circle). A handful were prior enlisted folks going through to get the officer credentials. Quite a few had gone to the prep school for a year first to get their grades up to be eligible.
This was mid 2000's. Maybe it's changed? I wouldn't think of it as prestigious, but I would think of a graduate as someone who would be dependable and goal oriented, which is a fabulous thing for most would be employers to seek.
The school gives you a local "host family" who is your home on weekends, can drive you places, etc--so that level of independence is gone too. You eat in the cafeteria all four years, so you never have to manage a budget or cooking, just academics (with aforementioned tutors and study groups assigned to you).
I remember it feeling like an extension of high school when I would visit, and how different it was from my own school.
I would think very highly of a female graduating from the academy, because holy cow the level of harassment I witnessed was insane, and anyone who can survive that can get through anything. The guys were okay--some were super smart, some super patriotic, most were fairly middle of the road and were chasing a free education (at least the ones in my bf's social circle). A handful were prior enlisted folks going through to get the officer credentials. Quite a few had gone to the prep school for a year first to get their grades up to be eligible.
This was mid 2000's. Maybe it's changed? I wouldn't think of it as prestigious, but I would think of a graduate as someone who would be dependable and goal oriented, which is a fabulous thing for most would be employers to seek.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 12:01
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Definitely prestigious. There will be duds in any group that make it on connections, but I would expect any given individual to be very intelligent, accomplished, and good with people. I'm very far left and suspicious of the military. I would discourage my daughter from going to a service academy, but I still think those who go are a talented group.
Most of the duds aren’t “connected,” they have certain hooks that I’m not getting into on here. Sports recruiting is one, though.
This kind of attitude, and the bad behavior that comes along with it, is exactly why I wouldn't want to send my kid to an academy.
Here's an article detailing the cheating and rule-bending for athletes and other underrepresented students. One example that is pretty jaw-dropping: Dummies who fail courses are allowed to re-take the courses in the summer. But the courses in the summer are basically fake, everyone knows they're fake and the rigor is non-existent, so dummies are pushed thru to graduation. And military academies have apparently become obsessed with being good at sports.
http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/exclusive-former-west-point-professors-letter-exposes-corruption-cheating-and-failing-standards-full-letter/
Anonymous
02/14/2020 12:01
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
If the question is "does getting into a service academy mean this kid had better stats than my kid" the answer is no.
If by prestigious you mean will this look amazing on a resume and possibly launch the kid to a very impressive career, yes.
It's strange to me how many people are trying to prove that this is not a prestigious path. People (employers and voters) hear West Point and pretty uniformly think, "oh, wow!" Does it mean this person thinks outside of the box and is going to buck authority? Probably not, but I could say the same of almost every Harvard grad I've ever worked with.
If by prestigious you mean will this look amazing on a resume and possibly launch the kid to a very impressive career, yes.
It's strange to me how many people are trying to prove that this is not a prestigious path. People (employers and voters) hear West Point and pretty uniformly think, "oh, wow!" Does it mean this person thinks outside of the box and is going to buck authority? Probably not, but I could say the same of almost every Harvard grad I've ever worked with.
Anonymous
02/14/2020 11:58
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes very
Honestly I'd consider them up there with Harvard and Yale too. In addition to needing great grades, you need the athletic ability to be there.
Plus the commitment to a service career, risk of going to war, etc.
There's a reason why a lot of future politicians come from the academies.
LOL. You are FUNNY!
They don't want independent thinkers. They want kids who follow orders without questions. Certain types of kids.
So a requirement, in your mind, for prestige, is "independent thinkers"?
i want college kids to think for themselves.
That has nothing to do with prestige. Many independent thinkers go straight to community college for the flexibility, and many others don't care for prestige either way.
I don't understand. If kids are unable to think for themselves and just learn to follow the orders, what's the point? Late teens - early 20s are the years when kids really open their mind. What is this "prestige" you are speaking of?
The title of the thread: "prestigious." Prestige isn't measured by "produces the most independent thinkers."
OMG. You will fit right in. Knows one, but not two. Good day!
Anonymous
02/14/2020 11:57
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes very
Honestly I'd consider them up there with Harvard and Yale too. In addition to needing great grades, you need the athletic ability to be there.
Plus the commitment to a service career, risk of going to war, etc.
There's a reason why a lot of future politicians come from the academies.
LOL. You are FUNNY!
They don't want independent thinkers. They want kids who follow orders without questions. Certain types of kids.
So a requirement, in your mind, for prestige, is "independent thinkers"?
i want college kids to think for themselves.
That has nothing to do with prestige. Many independent thinkers go straight to community college for the flexibility, and many others don't care for prestige either way.
I don't understand. If kids are unable to think for themselves and just learn to follow the orders, what's the point? Late teens - early 20s are the years when kids really open their mind. What is this "prestige" you are speaking of?
The title of the thread: "prestigious." Prestige isn't measured by "produces the most independent thinkers."
Anonymous
02/14/2020 11:55
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes very
Honestly I'd consider them up there with Harvard and Yale too. In addition to needing great grades, you need the athletic ability to be there.
Plus the commitment to a service career, risk of going to war, etc.
There's a reason why a lot of future politicians come from the academies.
LOL. You are FUNNY!
They don't want independent thinkers. They want kids who follow orders without questions. Certain types of kids.
So a requirement, in your mind, for prestige, is "independent thinkers"?
i want college kids to think for themselves.
That has nothing to do with prestige. Many independent thinkers go straight to community college for the flexibility, and many others don't care for prestige either way.
I don't understand. If kids are unable to think for themselves and just learn to follow the orders, what's the point? Late teens - early 20s are the years when kids really open their mind. What is this "prestige" you are speaking of?
Anonymous
02/14/2020 11:52
Subject: Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I know quite a few service academy grads and I think of them as hard-working, goal-oriented, self-disciplined, athletic doers who generally have their acts together, but I don't necessarily find them particularly smart, creative, or innovative as a whole. Bright enough for sure, and nothing to look down on, but if they didn't go to the academies, most of them wouldn't have gone to a top academic university or college. I mean, does Mike Pompeo really strike anyone as the sharpest tool in the shed? Or Roy Moore? Or Oliver North? So academically, I don't think they are that prestigious; their prestige comes from other qualities. It's really apples and oranges.
I have also worked with one, and noticed that the guy could work in a pressure cooker, but did not stand out as very smart. The guy was very friendly and pleasant to work with.
Agree. They aren't smart but they're very patriotic and mission-driven. Since most corporations were built on a military model of chain of command leadership ... military guys can do well in corporations. That just means they know how to follow orders and buckle down ... not that they have high IQs or anything. Your examples are good. Pompeo seems as dumb as a brick and so did North.
OP .. they are not "prestigious" ... that is the wrong word choice.
Around here, the academy grads I know did their 20+ years in the military, had grad school paid for (one of DH's best friends went to Harvard's Kennedy School), and now work for management consulting companies, drawing a big salary on top of their officer's pension. Makes for a nice life.
Is a 20 year military pension a decent chunk of change annually -- it also includes free VA health care for life? Does the 20 years to earn a pension start at age 18yo when you get on campus or not until you graduate at 22yo? What's the minimum required to serve after graduating from West Point? Do you still get a small pension if you only serve for the minimum?
Anonymous
02/14/2020 11:52
Subject: Re:Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes very
Honestly I'd consider them up there with Harvard and Yale too. In addition to needing great grades, you need the athletic ability to be there.
Plus the commitment to a service career, risk of going to war, etc.
There's a reason why a lot of future politicians come from the academies.
LOL. You are FUNNY!
They don't want independent thinkers. They want kids who follow orders without questions. Certain types of kids.
So a requirement, in your mind, for prestige, is "independent thinkers"?
i want college kids to think for themselves.
That has nothing to do with prestige. Many independent thinkers go straight to community college for the flexibility, and many others don't care for prestige either way.