Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, I am a man in a similar boat as you but I had an affair - having one now. Sleeping in the guest room too. I tried everything, then I realized that my wife just is fine with the status quo and really has no sexual desire at all (or for me, it doesn't really matter).

It's not ideal but I am with my family and we get along better oddly enough. I assume she suspects something, she isn't that naive to think a man with options is going to be celibate.

What is your hang up about an affair? Worst that happens is you get caught and divorce anyway. It's all no fault. And perhaps when you have a spring in your step again, she will find you more attractive.

Are you kidding me? You're encouraging someone else to have an affair like it's no big deal? Hello, it's wrong if your wife hasn't agreed to it.

What if this happened to your daughter and she's hurt? Whose side will you take at that time: your daughter or the cheater? I'm serious: Will your loyalty be with your daughter?

Y o u are a sociopath to talk so n poo nonchalantly about encouraging someone else to cheat.

Agree. Cheating is not the solution. Instead he should first declare the marriage open, and THEN go out and meet his needs.

If my daughter did not want sex with her husband, I would not feel any different because opening this marriage is the only way to save it.

You are so tiring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your options are divorce, cheat or be sexually miserable. Weigh the risks and benefits of each.

Wrong. There’s also discussing an open marriage.

Serious question - how many couples do you know that are in one? And have successfully navigated one? I am sure they are out there but I don't know one. I know many, many people who have cheated and remain married.

I know one couple. They divorced as the wife married one of her partners.

I don't understand, you are miserable because you don't get laid? Use your hands and imagination. Why do you bother your wife with wanting sex? Who decided that sex comes with marriage?
You 2 are roommates now. Leave her alone and go get it from somewhere else. Just don't talk about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. Tell her you will have sex with someone else unless she is willing to have counseling with you.
Isn’t that what you are considering?
No judgment- just sympathy- good luck.

Something like this OP, but you have to be willing to go through with it. I went years in a situation just like yours. Was going to stay until the kids grew up and moved out.
You can only live like that for so long. Talking doesn't work or might get you sex for that month. After years I couldn't take it anymore. I finally told her I wanted a divorce. DW was blind sided thinking nothing was wrong in our relationship. I explained to her that having no sex was not an option. I haven't cheated I have no one else lined up, but I refuse to be celibate. The next day after she did some thinking she told me I was right and not to leave, and we started having sex multiple times a week, she even initiates now and our relationship is doing very well

+1
I had an almost identical experience. She suddenly "found" her lost libido upon seeing (figuratively speaking) my "tail lights in the driveway". Over a decade ago, great marriage, sex multiples per week.

Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when that happened?
I had a similar experience with my husband not too long ago. It wasn’t over sex, but something else. I went to see a lawyer and put 1/2 of our savings in my name only, and all of a sudden, this thing that had been IMPOSSIBLE for him to do for a decade was just part of our daily lives. And while I am happy, I can’t help but feel a little resentful about it. Did you feel the same way?

I was happy that our marriage was saved, and mad at myself for not giving her this ultimatum much sooner. It took 9 sexless months before I came to my senses. I do not resent her: I understand that most women (especially mothers) are simply not that interested in sex most of the time, especially in a secure relationship. I did not take that personally.

9 months v “a decade” might account for the difference in PPs’ feelings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. Tell her you will have sex with someone else unless she is willing to have counseling with you.
Isn’t that what you are considering?
No judgment- just sympathy- good luck.

Something like this OP, but you have to be willing to go through with it. I went years in a situation just like yours. Was going to stay until the kids grew up and moved out.
You can only live like that for so long. Talking doesn't work or might get you sex for that month. After years I couldn't take it anymore. I finally told her I wanted a divorce. DW was blind sided thinking nothing was wrong in our relationship. I explained to her that having no sex was not an option. I haven't cheated I have no one else lined up, but I refuse to be celibate. The next day after she did some thinking she told me I was right and not to leave, and we started having sex multiple times a week, she even initiates now and our relationship is doing very well

+1
I had an almost identical experience. She suddenly "found" her lost libido upon seeing (figuratively speaking) my "tail lights in the driveway". Over a decade ago, great marriage, sex multiples per week.

Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when that happened?
I had a similar experience with my husband not too long ago. It wasn’t over sex, but something else. I went to see a lawyer and put 1/2 of our savings in my name only, and all of a sudden, this thing that had been IMPOSSIBLE for him to do for a decade was just part of our daily lives. And while I am happy, I can’t help but feel a little resentful about it. Did you feel the same way?

I was happy that our marriage was saved, and mad at myself for not giving her this ultimatum much sooner. It took 9 sexless months before I came to my senses. I do not resent her: I understand that most women (especially mothers) are simply not that interested in sex most of the time, especially in a secure relationship. I did not take that personally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, I am a man in a similar boat as you but I had an affair - having one now. Sleeping in the guest room too. I tried everything, then I realized that my wife just is fine with the status quo and really has no sexual desire at all (or for me, it doesn't really matter).

It's not ideal but I am with my family and we get along better oddly enough. I assume she suspects something, she isn't that naive to think a man with options is going to be celibate.

What is your hang up about an affair? Worst that happens is you get caught and divorce anyway. It's all no fault. And perhaps when you have a spring in your step again, she will find you more attractive.

Are you kidding me? You're encouraging someone else to have an affair like it's no big deal? Hello, it's wrong if your wife hasn't agreed to it.

What if this happened to your daughter and she's hurt? Whose side will you take at that time: your daughter or the cheater? I'm serious: Will your loyalty be with your daughter?

Y o u are a sociopath to talk so n poo nonchalantly about encouraging someone else to cheat.

I agree but am curious as to how prevalent this mindset is.

OP, are you sure that your wife realizes the extent of your discontent and how important this is to you? Are you sure you have fully communicated this?

OP, I get you. Same went on in my marriage. I found Dr Douglas Weiss (intimacy anorexia, married and alone) very soothing. I still watch his talk on the A new day show when I have trouble sleeping due to the flashbacks from being emotionally starved and feeling ugly for years. I'm female and I left at 40yo. My life is great now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, I am a man in a similar boat as you but I had an affair - having one now. Sleeping in the guest room too. I tried everything, then I realized that my wife just is fine with the status quo and really has no sexual desire at all (or for me, it doesn't really matter).

It's not ideal but I am with my family and we get along better oddly enough. I assume she suspects something, she isn't that naive to think a man with options is going to be celibate.

What is your hang up about an affair? Worst that happens is you get caught and divorce anyway. It's all no fault. And perhaps when you have a spring in your step again, she will find you more attractive.

Are you kidding me? You're encouraging someone else to have an affair like it's no big deal? Hello, it's wrong if your wife hasn't agreed to it.

What if this happened to your daughter and she's hurt? Whose side will you take at that time: your daughter or the cheater? I'm serious: Will your loyalty be with your daughter?

Y o u are a sociopath to talk so n poo nonchalantly about encouraging someone else to cheat.

OMG it's sociopath guy. Did you forget, narcisstic?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When couples say they have to stay together for the children, and then describe a very unhealthy relationship dynamic (ie. “Never touch,” and sleep in separate rooms)...I always think, “Why do you assume that divorce us worse than what you are modeling for your children?” Think about what they are learning from your example of how married couples relate.

You can follow all the rigid rules you have memorized (ie divorce = bad)...but so is what they are seeing everyday.

I am also bothered by your comment that you are doing what you can to ignite passion by earning a certain amount of money. That only goes together if you think women can be bought or are gold diggers. So your ideas sound very old fashioned and not progressive.

I am sorry you are unhappy but I do think you need to share your honest feelings with your wife, and try counseling together (with a qualified therapist, not church leader). Good luck.

I thought that too.

This plus the gifts and flowers, spending a lot of time at work and the gym, and describing your wife as conflict avoidant makes me think that she is also deeply unfulfilled with the connection in your marriage.

Go home, man. Stop going to the gym so much. Stop procrastinating at work and get it done. Play with your kids. Teach them how to set the table and help with dinner. Discipline them if they are rude or disrespectful to your wife. Build something in the garage. There are ways to be manly in a traditional marriage besides being gone all of the time and earning a lot of money.

I appreciate your feedback but I have tried that. The marriage has been on a decline the last 5 years. I have arranged date nights that result in mostly pragmatic talks over the candlelight, discussing our schedule and the kids only to end with me offering to massage her at home, with no expectations for sex. Just some intimacy and touch even if it’s not sexual. Lately 10/10 times I’m turned down with “no thanks, I’m tired” or “Maybe tomorrow.” I am a involved father, I coach our son’s t-ball team and we have family movie night in most Saturday nights. I volunteer alongside my wife most weekends at church. Yes I’ve tried the flowers and gifts route as well because I want to cover all my bases. When I try to have meaningful conversations about her happiness, she quips “Yes, everything is fine. Why do you keep asking?” which is when I dare to state that I’m unhappy about our lack of a sex life or intimacy in any form. Status quo responses vary from “I’m tired, the kids took it out of me today.” to “I’m touched out, the kids were clingy today.” to “I’m on my period” or “I’m about to be on my period and I’m bloated.” to a straight up “No. Not in the mood.”

I’m not claiming I’m perfect or blameless but I am trying. I guess I need to try individual counseling again to gain some more insight but my hopes aren’t high. Thank you all for your suggestions and support. God bless.

I feel for you. I'm not sure why you think staying together for the kids is necessarily the right move though. You're clearly very unhappy, you guys don't sleep together...your children are smart. They see. They sense tension. You are willingly keeping them in an unhappy household, modeling a really f-ed up husband/wife dynamic. You're not doing them many favors by sticking around. I'm guessing your wife not only finds you unattractive but probably a bit stronger than that. Or maybe she's asexual. Or maybe she's gay but unwilling to act on it. I think the fact that she is a SAH together with you both having open email and schedules tells me there is no real privacy in your relationship. Please tell me you aren't one of those couples that has a "family" email account.

You need to fix your snoring, op. I wonder why you haven't? I also wonder why your wife is so tired with two elementary schoolers. That doesn't seem right.
What faith are you if I can ask? We are members Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Later-Day Saints, aka used to be Mormons until recently. I've noticed a lot of members putting their own needs aside so they can tithe to the point where their physical health is impacted. I am also certain that there is a lot of undiagnosed depression. Your failure to fix your snoring along with your weekly volunteering makes me wonder if church is sucking the energy out of both of you.

At the risk of being crass, do you and your wife have time for sex? Do you sit or lie in bed close together? Family movie night is wonderful, we do this too, but it generally doesn't lead to sex.

How many hours are you spending on teeball and church? Everything I've volunteered with has the event itself along with lots of work and time before the event, and then usually a lot of time debriefing the event. It's a way bigger time committment then it looks.

I will jump on you a bit though, your wife shouldn't feel like she has to talk to the pastor about anything. Maybe she thinks he's a jerk. Maybe she thinks he's a great guy but a miserable pastor. Maybe she doesn't want to talk about sex with another man, even if you are right there.

I'm not a massage kind of girl, I view them as medical treatments. If my husband offered to give me one, I'd say no. I simply don't find them relaxing or sentual. If your wife doesn't like massages, why do you persist in offering them?

If she's a stay-at-home mom, what would you like her to talk about over the candlelight? I ask this because if she was into theater or politics, would you expect her to just not talk about what she spends the majority of her time and energy doing? You seem to disdain her.


Now onto you. You do deserve a healthy romantic/sexual relationship. Ideally you should get this within a marriage. I've said before on this board that I don't view divorce as a terrible thing. I view it as the legal ending of a legal contract, something which you are allowed to do. Unlike other contracts, you don't even need your wife's consent to end the marriage. I would think about divorce if only because I worry about your mental health if you do not. I worry that you would become so distracted and lonely that you would fail to make appropriate decisions as a father and husband. You don't want to be the kind of dad who expects his daughter to be celibate forever and scares off every nice boy she meets because you are unhappy with your wife. You also don't want to allow a son to have as much premarital sex as he wants because "it will all be over once you marry, you may as well enjoy yourself".

If your pastor is at all good at his job, I'd go speak with him/her. You do have that right, and he/she has the duty to listen to you and provide appropriate and healthy advice. Your wife can't stop this communication path, nor should she. I would lay out everything you've said here. I would also look at your behavior with the ceavot that it only takes one person to make a marriage miserable, but it always takes two to make it a happy one. Lay off the massages, fix your snoring, move back into the master bedroom and bed with your wife, listen to her when she talks and see where you are in six months or a year.

Finally, if your wife refuses to share a bed with you, or tells you that you cannot speak to a religious counselor of your choice, run. That's abusive and you need to be aware of that.

Get out. I waited 5 long years too long. Divorced and having crazy hot sex and fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. Tell her you will have sex with someone else unless she is willing to have counseling with you.
Isn’t that what you are considering?
No judgment- just sympathy- good luck.

Something like this OP, but you have to be willing to go through with it. I went years in a situation just like yours. Was going to stay until the kids grew up and moved out.
You can only live like that for so long. Talking doesn't work or might get you sex for that month. After years I couldn't take it anymore. I finally told her I wanted a divorce. DW was blind sided thinking nothing was wrong in our relationship. I explained to her that having no sex was not an option. I haven't cheated I have no one else lined up, but I refuse to be celibate. The next day after she did some thinking she told me I was right and not to leave, and we started having sex multiple times a week, she even initiates now and our relationship is doing very well

+1
I had an almost identical experience. She suddenly "found" her lost libido upon seeing (figuratively speaking) my "tail lights in the driveway". Over a decade ago, great marriage, sex multiples per week.

Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when that happened?
I had a similar experience with my husband not too long ago. It wasn’t over sex, but something else. I went to see a lawyer and put 1/2 of our savings in my name only, and all of a sudden, this thing that had been IMPOSSIBLE for him to do for a decade was just part of our daily lives. And while I am happy, I can’t help but feel a little resentful about it. Did you feel the same way?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did you move to the guest room? That was not smart. No sex can happen if you aren’t sleeping together.

I am the original poster. My wife claims my snoring keeps her up at night and honestly laying beside her is just a sad reminder that she has no desire for me. To answer the previous questions, yes, I would like to have more sex. 3-4 times a year of passionless pity sex has taken its toll on me. Yes, I would like to have more of an emotional connection because having a heart-to-heart with her is impossible. Right now we discuss kids, church, the family, plans for the week, etc. All of our conversations are very pragmatic. She knew when I was seeing a therapist and her response was "ok, whatever you think you need to do. It's not my thing and I do not want to go and discuss our personal life with a stranger." I have stopped asking for sex and mentioning how upsetting it is for me because she does not seem to care.

I'm the one that suggested the individual counseling. I think you still need it - a lot. Your wife is completely checked out of this marriage and that's not fair to you. I can hear how beat down you've become over this coming through loud and clear in your post.

I think you need to re-frame your thinking about the future, and you need to at least be open to a counselor helping you envision your life after a divorce. You seem to think you will lose your social life, which seems to revolve around church. It's quite possible you could remain somewhat friendly and co-parent closely. Or if you really can't abide the idea of divorce, at least figure out how you can be happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. Tell her you will have sex with someone else unless she is willing to have counseling with you.
Isn’t that what you are considering?
No judgment- just sympathy- good luck.

Something like this OP, but you have to be willing to go through with it. I went years in a situation just like yours. Was going to stay until the kids grew up and moved out.
You can only live like that for so long. Talking doesn't work or might get you sex for that month. After years I couldn't take it anymore. I finally told her I wanted a divorce. DW was blind sided thinking nothing was wrong in our relationship. I explained to her that having no sex was not an option. I haven't cheated I have no one else lined up, but I refuse to be celibate. The next day after she did some thinking she told me I was right and not to leave, and we started having sex multiple times a week, she even initiates now and our relationship is doing very well

+1
I had an almost identical experience. She suddenly "found" her lost libido upon seeing (figuratively speaking) my "tail lights in the driveway". Over a decade ago, great marriage, sex multiples per week.

^^^No one is blaming you. But there is more to life than this. Go home man.

If you are working/commuting 60-70 hours a week, working out 15 hours a week, and coaching t-ball and volunteering at church 5 hours/week, that means that you are only home, not sleeping 20-30 hours a week. And even that is probably mostly over the weekend with an 1-2 hours a day at home during the week.

Even if you don’t feel it in your marriage, go be a dad.