Anonymous wrote:Inherent to the entire structure of the Catholic church is that women are not equal to men. Different is fine, lesser and unequal is not fine.

This Catholic disagrees. In any event, time will tell whether the Methodists who adopt your liberal positions survive in any meaningful way.

Inherent to the entire structure of the Catholic church is that women are not equal to men. Different is fine, lesser and unequal is not fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Well that was passive-aggressive...

Sorry you had a bad experience and have now swallowed leftist gender ideology.

As usual a response that goes directly to leftist. NO not a leftist. A realist there is a difference.

Women are not considered equal in the Catholic Church. Sex Abuse you want to explain away why a Church hid that and still does???? Of children no less.

I am so tired of the holier than thou claiming everyone who doesn't believe in their ultra conservative views are leftist.

Catholic church does not teach daughters that they are equal to sons. You want to raise your DC that way fine. Don't judge others who do not. Good Catholics do not judge others right?

Before posting might want to reread your previous post. You were aggressive.

Better aggressive than passive-aggressive. And whether or not you think you’re a leftist, your assumption that women and men are the same and that if they don’t have the same positions in this church then that’s oppression reflects leftist gender ideology.

Poster did not ssay they were the same. Poster said they were not taught or treated as if they are equals.

Whatever. That poster is basically just ranting.

^^ P.S. every Catholic I know takes the sex abuse scandal extremely seriously. But screaming “sex abuse!” at us does not make our theological position wrong. Sex abuse is a problem in lots of institutions, as are cover-ups. The Catholic Church is a bit like the military — it’s strict hierarchy enables it to fulfill its mission well - spreading the true gospel. But it’s hierarchy made is vulnerable to abuse by the powerful, too. That doesn’t mean it’s inherent corrupt. It means very particular strategies are needed - and are being developed - to counteract the negative aspects of the structure. But the hierarchy had a theological purpose, too, and that must be taken into account.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Well that was passive-aggressive...

Sorry you had a bad experience and have now swallowed leftist gender ideology.

As usual a response that goes directly to leftist. NO not a leftist. A realist there is a difference.

Women are not considered equal in the Catholic Church. Sex Abuse you want to explain away why a Church hid that and still does???? Of children no less.

I am so tired of the holier than thou claiming everyone who doesn't believe in their ultra conservative views are leftist.

Catholic church does not teach daughters that they are equal to sons. You want to raise your DC that way fine. Don't judge others who do not. Good Catholics do not judge others right?

Before posting might want to reread your previous post. You were aggressive.

Better aggressive than passive-aggressive. And whether or not you think you’re a leftist, your assumption that women and men are the same and that if they don’t have the same positions in this church then that’s oppression reflects leftist gender ideology.

Poster did not ssay they were the same. Poster said they were not taught or treated as if they are equals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Well that was passive-aggressive...

Sorry you had a bad experience and have now swallowed leftist gender ideology.

As usual a response that goes directly to leftist. NO not a leftist. A realist there is a difference.

Women are not considered equal in the Catholic Church. Sex Abuse you want to explain away why a Church hid that and still does???? Of children no less.

I am so tired of the holier than thou claiming everyone who doesn't believe in their ultra conservative views are leftist.

Catholic church does not teach daughters that they are equal to sons. You want to raise your DC that way fine. Don't judge others who do not. Good Catholics do not judge others right?

Before posting might want to reread your previous post. You were aggressive.

Better aggressive than passive-aggressive. And whether or not you think you’re a leftist, your assumption that women and men are the same and that if they don’t have the same positions in this church then that’s oppression reflects leftist gender ideology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Well that was passive-aggressive...

Sorry you had a bad experience and have now swallowed leftist gender ideology.

As usual a response that goes directly to leftist. NO not a leftist. A realist there is a difference.

Women are not considered equal in the Catholic Church. Sex Abuse you want to explain away why a Church hid that and still does???? Of children no less.

I am so tired of the holier than thou claiming everyone who doesn't believe in their ultra conservative views are leftist.

Catholic church does not teach daughters that they are equal to sons. You want to raise your DC that way fine. Don't judge others who do not. Good Catholics do not judge others right?

Before posting might want to reread your previous post. You were aggressive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Exactly!!!!

+1. And FWIW our Bible-based church is booming.

Funny, our lefty Episcopal church is filling our pews with young people. Smells, bells, and tolerance.

Fine, but that's not what is happening to the population of Episcopal churches across our nation. From wiki:

As of 2018, the Episcopal Church reports 1,835,931 baptized members. The majority of members are in the United States, where the Church has 1,676,349 members. Outside of the U.S. the Church has 159,582. Total average Sunday attendance (ASA) for 2018 was 562,529 (533,206 in the U.S. and 29,323 outside the U.S.), a decrease of 24.7% percent from 2008.[73]

According to a report by ARIS/Barna in 2001, 3.5 million Americans self–identified as Episcopalians, highlighting "a gap between those who are affiliated with the church (on membership rolls), versus those who self-identify [as Episcopalians]".[74] Church Pension Group also cited having 3.5 million adherents in 2002.[75] More recently, in 2014, Pew Research found that approximately 1.2 percent of 245 million U.S adults, around 3 million people, self–identified as mainline Episcopalian/Anglican.[3]

According to data collected in 2000, the District of Columbia, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and Virginia have the highest rates of adherents per capita, and states along the East Coast generally have a higher number of adherents per capita than in other parts of the country.[76] New York was the state with the largest total number of adherents, over 200,000.[77] In 2013, the Episcopal Diocese of Haiti was the largest single diocese, with 84,301 baptized members, which constitute slightly over half of the church's foreign membership.[73]

According to the latest statistics U.S. membership dropped 2.7 percent from a reported 1,866,758 members in 2013 to 1,745,156 in 2016, a loss of 121,602 persons. Attendance took an even steeper hit, with the average number of Sunday worshipers dropping from 623,691 in 2013 to 570,454 in 2016, a decline of 53,237 persons in the pews, down 8.5 percent. Congregations dropped to 6,473.[78]

The Episcopal Church experienced notable growth in the first half of the 20th century, but like many mainline churches, it has had a decline in membership in more recent decades.[79] Membership grew from 1.1 million members in 1925 to a peak of over 3.4 million members in the mid-1960s.[80] Between 1970 and 1990, membership declined from about 3.2 million to about 2.4 million.[80] Once changes in how membership is counted are taken into consideration, the Episcopal Church's membership numbers were broadly flat throughout the 1990s, with a slight growth in the first years of the 21st century.[81][82][83][84][85] A loss of 115,000 members was reported for the years 2003–05.[86] Some theories about the decline in membership include a failure to sufficiently reach beyond ethnic barriers in an increasingly diverse society, and the low fertility rates prevailing among the predominant ethnic groups traditionally belonging to the church. In 1965, there were 880,000 children in Episcopal Sunday School programs. By 2001, the number had declined to 297,000.[8

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Well that was passive-aggressive...

Sorry you had a bad experience and have now swallowed leftist gender ideology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I thought it would come to this and it has. The UMC will split into two denominations with the UMC maintaining the reconciling ministry allowing LGBT clergy and allowing clergy to perform gay marriages.

A new "traditional Methodist" denomination will spin off that will follow the traditional plan that was voted on last year and set to be implemented starting yesterday that would bar clergy from conducting gay marriages and ordaining gay clergy.

I really think it is for the best. Much like this country, the UMC has been sharply divided and polarized by this difference in opinion with predominantly the non-US churches wanting to follow the traditional plan and about 3/4 of the American churches that wanted to continue with the former policies. The non-US churches and the smaller demographic of conservative US churches will spin off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/03/united-methodist-church-is-expected-split-over-gay-marriage-disagreement-fracturing-nations-third-largest-denomination/

I remember when this happened to the Episcopalians. I would not be opposed to it in my own faith, Catholicism, if it mean that my daughter did not have to leave to marry the woman she loves some day.

Your daughter can marry legally in a court of law. The Catholic sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman. There are sacraments that not everyone gets — the sacrament of ordination, as an obvious example. Your daughter doesn’t have to leave Catholicism over it.

Are you from the DC area? I’ve had friends be asked to leave the Catholic Church or not take communion (this was me)over the fact that they weren’t married in the church. You’re kidding yourself if you think Catholics would allow them to attend.

I’m in Maryland. I wasn’t married in Catholic Church and no one’s asked me to leave or denied me communion. I’m not LGBT, to clarify, I was just married by a judge to a non-Catholic.

I’m a catholic married to a non catholic and was told in a letter either not to attend or to attend and not take communion (dh never took communion but I even gave confession still). . This was last year. My dh is very religious and had no issue attending, tithing, sending our kids to catholic schools but drew the line at RCIA or saying new vows.. They sent the letter when I had a baby I wanted baptized. I remember crying for weeks over it. This was in the Arlington diocese.

What parish was this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

More power to you. Yes, women are second class citizens in the Catholic religion. Their bodies are not their own. Not to mention all the other reasons the Catholic Church is not accepting of women. Or excuses for sex abuse male or female, great organization.

You do you.

Former Catholic here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Exactly!!!!

+1. And FWIW our Bible-based church is booming.

Funny, our lefty Episcopal church is filling our pews with young people. Smells, bells, and tolerance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the breakaways. It’s the same for a Anglicans who “broke away” from the Episcopal church. The church leadership set the existing policies, and there are a million other churches and denominations that don’t like women and/or gay people. Go there if that’s your thing, because fundamentally that’s what it’s about.

I left the Methodist Church two years because I got sick of the constant celebrating of the LGBTQ community. Go be whoever you want. I really don’t care. But I don’t attend church to celebrate you and your cause. I go there to worship Christ and this LGBTQ issue has, in my opinion, taken the focus off of Christ.

Exactly!!!!

+1. And FWIW our Bible-based church is booming.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they subject their kids to such dated, slow changing, backwards institutions like a conservative organized religions? These places are lost in time.

I mean look at the Catholics...it is doctrine that females cant even hold positions of leadership. I am going to immerse my little girls in that? why?

Women and men have different roles; it doesn’t mean women’s roles are any less important. I am a woman, the breadwinner for my family, and a practicing and faithful Catholic who will raise my boys AND girls Catholic.

Same except I really had had to pause when god gave me girls to raise. i went to a catholic college and women were less important. I think god sent me there so that I would try to help my daughters not repeat that experience.