How about installing little bus shelters by every school bus stop, Kids would have a covered
place to wait and there would be so much less chaos getting in and off the buss.

I know. Money. But how about letting businesses to found them in exchange for free
advertising? Or charity founding them one at the time. In few years every bus stop
could be covered!

Until then how about making some rule that kids that get off the buss HAVE to
congregate on the side of the bus in a group and WAIT till the buss leaves
the place before they will start walking in all directions?

Curiously enough lots of McLean has no sidewalks either. What's wrong with those places?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

You stop when it's safe.

We spend a vast amount of public money every year on a transportation system that is not safe. Please don't make excuses for it.

It's safe. People are the problem. Let's get rid of those, then we'll never have any accidents involving people occur, and we can all breath easier.

It's not going to cost $500 million to install sidewalks in densely populated residential neighborhoods of Montgomery County. But how about the County take the funds appropriated for the MCPS boundary analysis and put those toward keeping our kids from being killed or maimed while waiting for the school bus?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

You stop when it's safe.

We spend a vast amount of public money every year on a transportation system that is not safe. Please don't make excuses for it.

There is never 100% safe. Humans are involved, and humans make mistakes. It's a matter of reasonable trade-offs between convenience, cost, and safety.

Probably the 100% safe option is for kids to live at school, since the majority of children get injured while at home (drowning, falls, etc). Then we get rid of the need for school buses altogether.

But that's not very convenient, nor is it very cheap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This situation is exactly why some parents still take and meet their kids at the bus stop even though they could walk by themselves.

This is exactly why I do. My neighborhood does not have sidewalks and drivers speed.

The mother was at the bus stop to meet her child. So that doesn't help, either.

*shoveling.

Can someone tell me what are the arguments against the sidewalk? Who in their right
mind would oppose them?

Is it a mindset based on - no sidewalk, less pedestrian traffic near my property?
Or in general.. I hate people and sidewalk means people?
Or is it no sidewalks- no snow showering?

What is it? How anyone would like to live this day and age in the urban area where
people have to hope on the grass when a maniac drive by 60mph, where there
is no safety zone, dedicated for pedestrian called side. wallk. so they can walk
safely, jog, stroll, walk the dogs, walk with kids.. SAFELY?

What kind of mentality is this?

Anonymous wrote:

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

You stop when it's safe.

We spend a vast amount of public money every year on a transportation system that is not safe. Please don't make excuses for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

Or, we can just let kids continue to be killed until drivers change. How is that any better?

Teach your children to be in charge of their own safety. It is not a benefit to think others will continue to coddle your little ducklings. They clearly won't, whether they should or not.

Like those Kennedy HS kids standing on the sidewalk were in charge of their own safety?

As long as we make it the child's responsibility to not get killed by drivers, drivers are going to keep killing children.

Well I will continue to teach my children to be as safe as they can be in the real world. You do what you want.

Go right ahead, it won’t keep drivers from murdering them though.

Do you lock your doors at night or do you just count on murderers and burglars following the rules?

In addition, it is easy to say "just put in sidewalks" but sidewalks are very expensive and the truth is there a limited amount of resources. When you do have a sidewalk things can still happen as we had with the boy biking on Old Georgetown. If the sidewalks were wider and there was a wall between the traffic and the sidewalk it would be even safer so where do you stop? The fact of the matter is that people are fallible and imperfect and accidents are going to happen even with the best of preparation and intentions. I have a friend who fell down the stairs and died. It would be safe to build every home on one level but we don't because the risk is worth it to us. Everything has a cost benefit analysis attached to it. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do every day. When there is an accident and someone in a smaller or cheaper car is killed we don't say "Every citizen has a right to a really safe car" but more people die in cars than being hit by them. Is it worth $500 million (guess) to install sidewalks in all of MoCo when you could spend that money on repairing major roadways so there are fewer crashes or on subsidizing affordable housing for citizens? There are choices to be made. We can't have everything.

Unfortunately, politicians/bureaucrats don't get credit when they successfully prevent deaths and save citizens from grievous injury.

But they do get blame when they try to force private citizens and businesses to make changes to be safer/more efficient/pay for their negative externalities.

Not sure how to fix this dilemma. It goes to a deeper problem of "me me me" culture and the loss of the American sense of community. It's become so extreme that certain segments of adults shrug their shoulders at dead kids.

I even see this with my retiree in-laws in MoCo who sent 5 kids through the local public schools: "Why do I need to pay for the schools? Why are services so expensive? What am I getting for my money?" It's really, really problematic: we have a growing school age population across the county and not enough infrastructure and capacity to deal with it. Meanwhile, the county's wealthiest residents - older homeowners who have seen big equity increases due to the rising population - are very opposed to new school construction, sidewalks, and necessary spending.

Anonymous wrote:This situation is exactly why some parents still take and meet their kids at the bus stop even though they could walk by themselves.

This is exactly why I do. My neighborhood does not have sidewalks and drivers speed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

That's an absurdly narrow view of things. Yes, we have the technical wherewithall to put in sidewalks. But there are lots of issues in many older neighborhoods that make it difficult, though not impossible, to put them in.

Are there particular problems, in particular places? Of course there are. But that doesn't explain the lack of sidewalks in the many, many, many places in the county where there aren't those problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are some excellent educational resources at this link for teaching students safe pedestrian and biking practices: https://www.saferoutespartnership.org/safe-routes-school/srts-program/basics. We can all do a lot more to work with our own kids on these safety tips, and probably more via PTAs and other school forums.

I'll tell you what's endangering kids in my neighborhood: drivers. Drivers driving way too fast, drivers on phones, drivers disobeying the law by not stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks (note that ALL intersections are crosswalks, including intersections where there aren't painted crosswalks), drivers rolling through stop signs, drivers barely even slowing down to turn right on red.

Until that changes, "safe pedestrian and biking practices" basically boils down to: Try really, really hard to stay out of the way of drivers, so that they don't hit you.

Well the first thing you or your kids need to do is make sure you aren't dealing with one of the drivers you described. LOOK AT THE DRIVER. I never enter the street without looking at the driver. I can't understand people who just walk into the street lost in thought. MAKE EYE CONTACT. I do this as a driver, as ell -- I look at the pedestrians and make contact. I also look at the other drivers before I go. I'm paying attention. Make sure I am -- and you can bitch all you want about how unfair it is that you HAVE to do this, but I dont get the complaining. It takes a split second. It is ingrained in me, and I am making sure it is ingrained in my kids as well.

Really not that hard and not worth complaining about something this simple.

A Walter Johnson High School student is in the hospital with life-threatening injuries this morning because a driver broke two laws - not stopping for a stopped school bus, and not stopping for a vehicle that's stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

But sure, let's keep talking about kids' behavior and how they have to focus and behave perfectly at all times if they don't want to be killed.

Or, we can just let kids continue to be killed until drivers change. How is that any better?

Teach your children to be in charge of their own safety. It is not a benefit to think others will continue to coddle your little ducklings. They clearly won't, whether they should or not.

Like those Kennedy HS kids standing on the sidewalk were in charge of their own safety?

As long as we make it the child's responsibility to not get killed by drivers, drivers are going to keep killing children.

Well I will continue to teach my children to be as safe as they can be in the real world. You do what you want.

Go right ahead, it won’t keep drivers from murdering them though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the neighborhoods in Bethesda were built way, way before it was as congested as it is now. That's why there are no sidewalks in many of them. Of course it's easy now to see that they could be useful, and they should go into new developments. Not as easy to put them into existing neighborhoods.

Actually there are few technical barriers to putting them into existing neighborhoods. The barriers are the people who don't want sidewalks, and a transportation budget that doesn't prioritize funding for sidewalk construction.

Well we used to live in a neighborhood that had steep hills going directly down to the street. We lived in another one that had county planted trees (mature, 50 year old trees) along the edge of each yard.