Anonymous wrote:^ temptation occurs everywhere in life but it’s what you choose to do that matters. You clearly chose a path that is different than many happily married men. It’s you who chose differently.

It comes down to do you believe you have agency in life or does life happen to you?

of course people have agency, but there are variables in play too. Someone with a low sex drive isn't going to find resisting temptation as hard. Or someone who is an introvert, or conventionally unattractive. In the CEO's case, he has an amazing wife whom he has a strong connection with so that helps too.

^ temptation occurs everywhere in life but it’s what you choose to do that matters. You clearly chose a path that is different than many happily married men. It’s you who chose differently.

It comes down to do you believe you have agency in life or does life happen to you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some extremely naive people on this thread. The people that would be shocked, really? Most people cheated on, never thought it would happen to them. Strong sex at home doesn’t mean a thing. People like variety

I was cheated on and have never cheated and I don't believe everyone cheats but I do find the pearl clutchers here to be naive. I never thought my husband would cheat and it wasn't about me or sex -- we had a lot of it and it was good -- it was about how having the attention of other women made him feel. And people would be shocked to find out that is why we divorced. He is universally known as a good guy -- kind, generous, loving. And cheater. Again, that doesn't mean every spouse cheats it just means don't assume people you know haven't or aren't cheating because they seem like good people committed to their marriage. It is possible.

As a male who has never cheated I can really understand how this can happen. I’m recently retired and I was the CEO of a very large company. I like to think I’m better than average looking and I certainly had money and prestige and that can be bait especially when you travel a lot with a lot of socializing. Opportunities for cheating were numerous but I had an off the charts wonderful wife so I just never went there. The attention from other women was ego building and tempting but thankfully I didn’t bite the apple. And I’d always soon after call my wife so I could be reminded why I didn’t bite the forbidden fruit.

you all know that cheating is not the unique purview of men, that a fairly high % of women cheat a well - as evidenced by replies in this thread.

So BOTH men AND women should not commit to monogamy unless they mean it. BOTH men AND women may cheat if they have the opportunity to do it. BOTH men AND women cheat despite the fact that things are home seem good (from the perspective of the non-cheating spouse).

^ so if I find out someone around me has cheated, it does negatively affect my perception of that person (including family members).

Agreed that Men shouldn’t commit to monogamy unless they mean it. I suppose it comes down to whether you believe that either life happens to you or that you make a difference in how you live your life.

Anonymous wrote:^ not sure why this black and white comment comes up. It’s irrelevant to the discussion.

BTW, not a scorned woman. My posts indicate that I’m not surrounded by cheaters and so don’t have experience with it at a personal level. That is why I wonder why we can’t expect men to do better? Are you saying we shouldn’t expect them to do better?

You are surrounded by cheaters. It's half the population (you could quarrel its only 35% or maybe its 65% but either way). That's the first thing you need to wrap your mind around, people who are unfaithful are your friends, your loved ones, perhaps your parent or sibling. You don't know but it's an absolute guarantee its many, many of the people you know well. Does that fact cancel out what you otherwise see in them?

Yes, we should expect people to do better, men and women included. Indeed, you shouldn't make a monogamous commitment if you know you can't keep it. Problem is, most people go into marriage with the intention of keeping it but most people aren't monogamous and struggle mightily when temptation comes up years into a relationship. If you see this as a fatal flaw that means a relationship must end, that's certainly something you can chose but it also means statistically most marriages will fail.

^ not sure why this black and white comment comes up. It’s irrelevant to the discussion.

BTW, not a scorned woman. My posts indicate that I’m not surrounded by cheaters and so don’t have experience with it at a personal level. That is why I wonder why we can’t expect men to do better? Are you saying we shouldn’t expect them to do better?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The General Social Survey (Univ of Chicago, data since 1970s) has been pretty consistent throughout the decades. Most recent one: 20 percent of married men and 13 percent of married women admit to cheating.

That's about what I was going to guess. Everyone posting 50%+ must work in pretty scummy industries ...? I'm no babe in the woods, but there's no chance over half the people in our UMC mid and late 40s social circle are cheating or have cheated recently. No chance.

I think this is the key difference when we are talking statistics: now/recently cheating, vs "ever in your lifetime". I think it's totally realistic that 50% have our will cheat at some point in life, but for most people it's a one-time event or a wild phase in their 20s/30s. At any given snapshot in time, it may only be 10-20%.

So even if lifetime risk of cheating is 50%, # of couples affected is less than 50% presumably (some couples where both cheat on each other). This means there are at least 50% of couples where there's no cheating over a lifetime. That isn't the story that we hear on this forum and many of the people who post that they have not cheated are discounted. It's to their benefit to think everyone cheats so that they don't feel as bad about it. That's not data driven and it's not true. It's what is beneficial for them to believe.

Stats can be your friend. If 50% of people cheat, then in 25% of marriages both will have done so, 50% only one person did and 25% neither did. So therefore only about 1 in 4 marriages remain pure. I would grant the number of monogamous marriages is probably a bit higher than 25% since like minded people tend to marry.

I really see a lot of naive women on here. Not to throw all men under the bus but if you get into the inner circle of men, especially attractive men with options, the curtain gets pulled back. Not all men cheat all the time, but most men do at some point if they can. Like a PP said above, they can be great family men, charming, charitable, gracious and still think with their little brain at some point over a long marriage.

BTW, it's a man's perspective that men who cheat can be otherwise great. For some women, that may not be the case.

This means that the theory propagated on this forum that men cheat because of lack of sex in marriage is also out the door.

Should we not expect better from men? Men aren't up to being better?

Black and white thinking, although I can see from the perspective of the scorned woman that being betrayed trumps all other good qualities. From MLK to JFK to others the world is filled with powerful men who shaped history for the better of mankind who were also deeply unfaithful. You can believe that they are all evil or accept that the human sex drive is a super powerful drug, extremely so for many men and people make mistakes. To err is human, we accept human fragility in every other aspect in life, why not on this?

Not all men cheat all the time, but most men do at some point if they can.

A lie. Stop making up stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The General Social Survey (Univ of Chicago, data since 1970s) has been pretty consistent throughout the decades. Most recent one: 20 percent of married men and 13 percent of married women admit to cheating.

That's about what I was going to guess. Everyone posting 50%+ must work in pretty scummy industries ...? I'm no babe in the woods, but there's no chance over half the people in our UMC mid and late 40s social circle are cheating or have cheated recently. No chance.

I think this is the key difference when we are talking statistics: now/recently cheating, vs "ever in your lifetime". I think it's totally realistic that 50% have our will cheat at some point in life, but for most people it's a one-time event or a wild phase in their 20s/30s. At any given snapshot in time, it may only be 10-20%.

So even if lifetime risk of cheating is 50%, # of couples affected is less than 50% presumably (some couples where both cheat on each other). This means there are at least 50% of couples where there's no cheating over a lifetime. That isn't the story that we hear on this forum and many of the people who post that they have not cheated are discounted. It's to their benefit to think everyone cheats so that they don't feel as bad about it. That's not data driven and it's not true. It's what is beneficial for them to believe.

Stats can be your friend. If 50% of people cheat, then in 25% of marriages both will have done so, 50% only one person did and 25% neither did. So therefore only about 1 in 4 marriages remain pure. I would grant the number of monogamous marriages is probably a bit higher than 25% since like minded people tend to marry.

I really see a lot of naive women on here. Not to throw all men under the bus but if you get into the inner circle of men, especially attractive men with options, the curtain gets pulled back. Not all men cheat all the time, but most men do at some point if they can. Like a PP said above, they can be great family men, charming, charitable, gracious and still think with their little brain at some point over a long marriage.

BTW, it's a man's perspective that men who cheat can be otherwise great. For some women, that may not be the case.

This means that the theory propagated on this forum that men cheat because of lack of sex in marriage is also out the door.

Should we not expect better from men? Men aren't up to being better?

The clueless people here are exactly why it’s that easy. Most people are clueless and believe their spouse each and every time, they say they left their phone in the car.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The General Social Survey (Univ of Chicago, data since 1970s) has been pretty consistent throughout the decades. Most recent one: 20 percent of married men and 13 percent of married women admit to cheating.

That's about what I was going to guess. Everyone posting 50%+ must work in pretty scummy industries ...? I'm no babe in the woods, but there's no chance over half the people in our UMC mid and late 40s social circle are cheating or have cheated recently. No chance.

I think this is the key difference when we are talking statistics: now/recently cheating, vs "ever in your lifetime". I think it's totally realistic that 50% have our will cheat at some point in life, but for most people it's a one-time event or a wild phase in their 20s/30s. At any given snapshot in time, it may only be 10-20%.

So even if lifetime risk of cheating is 50%, # of couples affected is less than 50% presumably (some couples where both cheat on each other). This means there are at least 50% of couples where there's no cheating over a lifetime. That isn't the story that we hear on this forum and many of the people who post that they have not cheated are discounted. It's to their benefit to think everyone cheats so that they don't feel as bad about it. That's not data driven and it's not true. It's what is beneficial for them to believe.

Stats can be your friend. If 50% of people cheat, then in 25% of marriages both will have done so, 50% only one person did and 25% neither did. So therefore only about 1 in 4 marriages remain pure. I would grant the number of monogamous marriages is probably a bit higher than 25% since like minded people tend to marry.

I really see a lot of naive women on here. Not to throw all men under the bus but if you get into the inner circle of men, especially attractive men with options, the curtain gets pulled back. Not all men cheat all the time, but most men do at some point if they can. Like a PP said above, they can be great family men, charming, charitable, gracious and still think with their little brain at some point over a long marriage.

But I don't know that the cheating and faithful will align themselves so nicely into their buckets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The General Social Survey (Univ of Chicago, data since 1970s) has been pretty consistent throughout the decades. Most recent one: 20 percent of married men and 13 percent of married women admit to cheating.

That's about what I was going to guess. Everyone posting 50%+ must work in pretty scummy industries ...? I'm no babe in the woods, but there's no chance over half the people in our UMC mid and late 40s social circle are cheating or have cheated recently. No chance.

I think this is the key difference when we are talking statistics: now/recently cheating, vs "ever in your lifetime". I think it's totally realistic that 50% have our will cheat at some point in life, but for most people it's a one-time event or a wild phase in their 20s/30s. At any given snapshot in time, it may only be 10-20%.

So even if lifetime risk of cheating is 50%, # of couples affected is less than 50% presumably (some couples where both cheat on each other). This means there are at least 50% of couples where there's no cheating over a lifetime. That isn't the story that we hear on this forum and many of the people who post that they have not cheated are discounted. It's to their benefit to think everyone cheats so that they don't feel as bad about it. That's not data driven and it's not true. It's what is beneficial for them to believe.

Stats can be your friend. If 50% of people cheat, then in 25% of marriages both will have done so, 50% only one person did and 25% neither did. So therefore only about 1 in 4 marriages remain pure. I would grant the number of monogamous marriages is probably a bit higher than 25% since like minded people tend to marry.

I really see a lot of naive women on here. Not to throw all men under the bus but if you get into the inner circle of men, especially attractive men with options, the curtain gets pulled back. Not all men cheat all the time, but most men do at some point if they can. Like a PP said above, they can be great family men, charming, charitable, gracious and still think with their little brain at some point over a long marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The General Social Survey (Univ of Chicago, data since 1970s) has been pretty consistent throughout the decades. Most recent one: 20 percent of married men and 13 percent of married women admit to cheating.

That's about what I was going to guess. Everyone posting 50%+ must work in pretty scummy industries ...? I'm no babe in the woods, but there's no chance over half the people in our UMC mid and late 40s social circle are cheating or have cheated recently. No chance.

I think this is the key difference when we are talking statistics: now/recently cheating, vs "ever in your lifetime". I think it's totally realistic that 50% have our will cheat at some point in life, but for most people it's a one-time event or a wild phase in their 20s/30s. At any given snapshot in time, it may only be 10-20%.

So even if lifetime risk of cheating is 50%, # of couples affected is less than 50% presumably (some couples where both cheat on each other). This means there are at least 50% of couples where there's no cheating over a lifetime. That isn't the story that we hear on this forum and many of the people who post that they have not cheated are discounted. It's to their benefit to think everyone cheats so that they don't feel as bad about it. That's not data driven and it's not true. It's what is beneficial for them to believe.

Anonymous wrote:Some extremely naive people on this thread. The people that would be shocked, really? Most people cheated on, never thought it would happen to them. Strong sex at home doesn’t mean a thing. People like variety

I was cheated on and have never cheated and I don't believe everyone cheats but I do find the pearl clutchers here to be naive. I never thought my husband would cheat and it wasn't about me or sex -- we had a lot of it and it was good -- it was about how having the attention of other women made him feel. And people would be shocked to find out that is why we divorced. He is universally known as a good guy -- kind, generous, loving. And cheater. Again, that doesn't mean every spouse cheats it just means don't assume people you know haven't or aren't cheating because they seem like good people committed to their marriage. It is possible.