Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 17:14     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
IQ is just a tool for determining potential academic ability. SAT taken in middle school is an actual measure of academic ability. It’s not a proxy and it has a high ceiling.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 16:37     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
PP didn’t say that SAT scores in general are highly correlated with IQ. SAT scores of middle schoolers at the very high end of the score range are correlated with IQ. Kids who have college level skills at age 12 are probably gifted
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 16:04     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.

+1 One of the reasons ACT and SAT are accepted for things like Davidson is that a 7th grader who scores in the 98th percentile of college-bound high school seniors is extraordinary. Incredibly high achievement at a very early age fits in the "gifted is as gifted does" category. Who is more impressive: A 9th grader who is taking several advanced college classes, has won awards in some sort of prestigious competition, like state Mathcounts, and scored a 1400 SAT as an 8th grader, but only got a 130 NNAT, or the 9th grader who is taking honors classes in regular school, has no notable achievements, but got a 160 NNAT?



Ok and what about the numerous gifted kids who haven’t been exposed to the type of curriculum that would allow them to get a high score on the SAT in 7th grade. Yes, a 7th grader who scores well on the SAT is probably gifted, but they probably also have parents who are very diligent about providingthem with enrichment and top notch educational opportunities. Nor the same as having innate ability.


Well, that's why they accept IQ scores also. And there's evidence that high-end SAT achievement is fairly highly correlated with IQ, especially if taken at a young age. Cogats and NNats have poor norming at the high end and they are comparatively easy to prep. [/quote


But the SAT test academic content that is LEARNED. Yes, I'm sure many gifted people do well on the SAT's but it's not designed for determining IQ. And I'm sure there's way more prepping for the SAT going on than the Cogat. And iff SAT scores are so correlated with iq, what does that have to say about poor minority kids having much lower iq scores? Are you really going to say that's due to lower iq?



having much lower "SAT" scores.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 16:01     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.

+1 One of the reasons ACT and SAT are accepted for things like Davidson is that a 7th grader who scores in the 98th percentile of college-bound high school seniors is extraordinary. Incredibly high achievement at a very early age fits in the "gifted is as gifted does" category. Who is more impressive: A 9th grader who is taking several advanced college classes, has won awards in some sort of prestigious competition, like state Mathcounts, and scored a 1400 SAT as an 8th grader, but only got a 130 NNAT, or the 9th grader who is taking honors classes in regular school, has no notable achievements, but got a 160 NNAT?



Ok and what about the numerous gifted kids who haven’t been exposed to the type of curriculum that would allow them to get a high score on the SAT in 7th grade. Yes, a 7th grader who scores well on the SAT is probably gifted, but they probably also have parents who are very diligent about providingthem with enrichment and top notch educational opportunities. Nor the same as having innate ability.


Well, that's why they accept IQ scores also. And there's evidence that high-end SAT achievement is fairly highly correlated with IQ, especially if taken at a young age. Cogats and NNats have poor norming at the high end and they are comparatively easy to prep. [/quote


But the SAT test academic content that is LEARNED. Yes, I'm sure many gifted people do well on the SAT's but it's not designed for determining IQ. And I'm sure there's way more prepping for the SAT going on than the Cogat. And iff SAT scores are so correlated with iq, what does that have to say about poor minority kids having much lower iq scores? Are you really going to say that's due to lower iq?
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 15:58     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ok and what about the numerous gifted kids who haven’t been exposed to the type of curriculum that would allow them to get a high score on the SAT in 7th grade. Yes, a 7th grader who scores well on the SAT is probably gifted, but they probably also have parents who are very diligent about providingthem with enrichment and top notch educational opportunities. Nor the same as having innate ability.


Well, that's why they accept IQ scores also. And there's evidence that high-end SAT achievement is fairly highly correlated with IQ, especially if taken at a young age. Cogats and NNats have poor norming at the high end and they are comparatively easy to prep.


This. Most tests have too low of a ceiling to differentiate between a 140 and a 150. On NNAT and CogAT, the difference between a 140 and a 150 is one correct answer. Even the WISC has some pretty severe ceiling effects if a kid maxes out any section. The ACT and SAT might not be IQ tests, but when a 12 year old takes them, the ceiling is very high. There's a lot of room above the 99.9th percentile, and it would take more than a single right answer to swing the score that much for those kids.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 15:50     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.

+1 One of the reasons ACT and SAT are accepted for things like Davidson is that a 7th grader who scores in the 98th percentile of college-bound high school seniors is extraordinary. Incredibly high achievement at a very early age fits in the "gifted is as gifted does" category. Who is more impressive: A 9th grader who is taking several advanced college classes, has won awards in some sort of prestigious competition, like state Mathcounts, and scored a 1400 SAT as an 8th grader, but only got a 130 NNAT, or the 9th grader who is taking honors classes in regular school, has no notable achievements, but got a 160 NNAT?



Ok and what about the numerous gifted kids who haven’t been exposed to the type of curriculum that would allow them to get a high score on the SAT in 7th grade. Yes, a 7th grader who scores well on the SAT is probably gifted, but they probably also have parents who are very diligent about providingthem with enrichment and top notch educational opportunities. Nor the same as having innate ability.


Well, that's why they accept IQ scores also. And there's evidence that high-end SAT achievement is fairly highly correlated with IQ, especially if taken at a young age. Cogats and NNats have poor norming at the high end and they are comparatively easy to prep.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 15:06     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.

+1 One of the reasons ACT and SAT are accepted for things like Davidson is that a 7th grader who scores in the 98th percentile of college-bound high school seniors is extraordinary. Incredibly high achievement at a very early age fits in the "gifted is as gifted does" category. Who is more impressive: A 9th grader who is taking several advanced college classes, has won awards in some sort of prestigious competition, like state Mathcounts, and scored a 1400 SAT as an 8th grader, but only got a 130 NNAT, or the 9th grader who is taking honors classes in regular school, has no notable achievements, but got a 160 NNAT?



Ok and what about the numerous gifted kids who haven’t been exposed to the type of curriculum that would allow them to get a high score on the SAT in 7th grade. Yes, a 7th grader who scores well on the SAT is probably gifted, but they probably also have parents who are very diligent about providingthem with enrichment and top notch educational opportunities. Nor the same as having innate ability.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 14:15     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:The NNAT has screwed up the testing norms.
https://www.hmhco.com/~/media/sites/home/hmh-assessments/assessments/cogat/pdf/cogat-cognitively-speaking-v6-winter-2008.pdf?la=en

Way too many kids are landing in the top few percent on the NNAT than ought to be.

Even for 1st and 2nd graders, more than 1/10,000 will get a perfect score.


This reminds me of what’s going on with the SAT and ACT. The average test scores aren’t going up but there seems to be a bump in perfect scores. With the NNAT there’s no change in mean but larger standard deviations and a second, smaller bump in the right hand tail of the bell curve. All that means is it wasn’t normed correctly. I think these tests are outdated. With both the SAT and NNAT the problem seems to be prepping, either implicit or explicit. With apps and technology, even with just amazon these tests are impossible to norm.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 13:39     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
The NNAT has screwed up the testing norms.
https://www.hmhco.com/~/media/sites/home/hmh-assessments/assessments/cogat/pdf/cogat-cognitively-speaking-v6-winter-2008.pdf?la=en

Way too many kids are landing in the top few percent on the NNAT than ought to be.

Even for 1st and 2nd graders, more than 1/10,000 will get a perfect score.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 13:25     Subject: Re:What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
160 in the 9th grade isn't all special.


Assuming they haven't screwed up the testing norms, 160 is a score obtained by only one in ten thousand ninth graders. That seems worth looking into.


The point the poster is trying to make is that there may not be 10,000 9th graders taking the test ... the raw score may still pin them to 160, but with a much smaller pool of test takers, there's just very little meaning to that score.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 13:16     Subject: Re:What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
160 in the 9th grade isn't all special.


Assuming they haven't screwed up the testing norms, 160 is a score obtained by only one in ten thousand ninth graders. That seems worth looking into.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 09:03     Subject: Re:What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This kid is a 9th grader and op isn’t posting what classes she’s in or what the kid’s prior testing from elem school showed. I’m guessing they are run of the mill ones. If they were really Einstein like, as she thinks the scores reflect, she wouldn’t have been so surprised at the score and if they are low she doesn’t want people to say, “See, we told you it doesn’t necessarily mean anything.”




Dear God, I'm not trying to hide anything, or make my kid look smarter than what she actually is, In fact, I thought it was pretty clear that I don't see my daughter as being an Einstein, which is why I was so taken aback by her score. To answer your question quickly before I head out to work, we are in Prince William County, she has been in the gifted program since 3rd grade. The gifted program here is more enrichment oriented, they are not actually separated into different instructional classes like AAP in Fairfax County. Her scores on the Naglieri and Cogat in 3rd grade were 99 percentile in every category, but I don't remember what the specific scores were, and I suspect she didn't max out. She is in Algebra II this year, (took Alg. I in 7th, Geometry in 8th). She is in all Pre-AP classes and one AP class now (There is only one AP that Freshmen are allowed to take at her H.S.) I guess I'm just trying to figure out what to make of this score. To be honest, I've always been a bit worried that we haven't done as much as we should have for her to live up to her potential. I don't know if we should be doing more now (although it might be too late), or if it's really not necessary to do anything at all.


160 in the 9th grade isn't all special. It just means your kid is good at spatial profiling, which she may have a talent for which is why she likes to spend her time on art and tik tok. You can put your mind at ease by giving her a Math section of the SATs to crack in 20 minutes. If she succeeds, you can think of enrolling her in all kids of STEM stuff.

Here's what a "genius" looks like: https://people.com/human-interest/9-year-old-belgian-genius-graduating-from-college/

Everyone else on AAP forums scoring 160 on NNAT or CoGAT or WISC is a high achieving individual, who will succeed pretty well in academics regardless of the sort of program they are in ... and whether they are in AAP or GT will make very little difference once they enter high school.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 09:03     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.

+1 One of the reasons ACT and SAT are accepted for things like Davidson is that a 7th grader who scores in the 98th percentile of college-bound high school seniors is extraordinary. Incredibly high achievement at a very early age fits in the "gifted is as gifted does" category. Who is more impressive: A 9th grader who is taking several advanced college classes, has won awards in some sort of prestigious competition, like state Mathcounts, and scored a 1400 SAT as an 8th grader, but only got a 130 NNAT, or the 9th grader who is taking honors classes in regular school, has no notable achievements, but got a 160 NNAT?
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 08:36     Subject: Re:What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
I thought it is well-established that EQ is equally or more important than IQ? When the kid is very young, IQ might have a bigger effect, but probably not at 9th grade.
Anonymous
Post 11/21/2019 07:38     Subject: What does it mean when someone scores a 160 on the Naglieri?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
No she hasn’t taken the SAT. She is in 9th grade. Why would you think she has taken the SAT already?


Because that’s what gifted kids do.


What the heck do you mean “that’s what gifted kids do?” What school gives kids the SAT before high school?


Gifted kids and kids who score in the 99% on standardized tests are invited to take the SAT or ACT in middle school as part of a talent search.

+1. This isn't a new thing, either. I took both the ACT and SAT in middle school 30 years ago while living in flyover country.


+1 It's not just for paying programs--my kids in FCPS were invited from Davidson Scholars/Javits and other places for free services triggered by some test score that I didn't ever submit to take the HS SAT in 6th/7th grade. But I'm not sure if the Naglieri group test would trigger that process as it's not as robust as others. In school your daughter will have taken a 9th grade version of the PSAT but it's not a true SAT so you couldn't use that for admission to any of these programs if you were interested. If the 160 Naglieri reflects a pattern of profound giftedness evidenced in other tests, you should look to Davidson Young Scholars as a resource (it's free). THey don't consider Naglieri as evidence though so she might need to get an IQ test or take the full SAT.




Why would they accept a SAT score? That just shows educational achievement. It's not the same as iq?


At a certain point in life “ability” or “potential” becomes less important and “achievement” or “performance” reigns supreme. When you are looking for a job no one cares about your IQ score. They want credentials and evidence of a good work ethic. Colleges don’t care about Mensa. You can get a 160 on the NNAT and fail classes in high school. And it’s not “she’s just unengaged” or “too smart”. There is more to academic excellence than IQ. By 9th grade gifted is as gifted does.