Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 19:45     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?


They did just fine coming into a country they didn't know or have connections to.

Why the attempts at emotional manipulation? WRONG is WRONG.

If I rob a bank do I get to keep the money because going back to a life of poverty-or jail-would be just oh so emotionally heart-wrenching for me?

I don't understand why every country feels entitled to America.

A better, long-lasting solution would be to put the energy into building their countries that they put into staying in the US. The US had to go through its battles, wars, upheaval and turmoil to get to where it is. They need to roll up their sleeves and get to work on theirs instead of seeking the easy out.


+1. Just see what happens if you or I try to move to most other countries on earth and work and live forever. Hint: we would be deported quite fast.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 19:45     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The real problem is not daca- its the archaic 14th amendment that was created to make sure states recognized former slaves and descendants of slaves as citizens.
It turned into the shit show of birth tourism and anchor babies.

DACA is a rounding error compared to that, while good intended, stupidly worded train wreck of work.


+1. Yep, birthright citizenship is a very problematic modern legacy of our sinful past. We need to change it desperately, but we essentially can’t.


It doesn't really need to be changed. Instead, the government can simply insist on the 'spirit' of the Amendment and getting back to why it was truly written.

That needs to happen OR we'll be seeing some very drastic restrictions on immigration and laws around entering the US.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 19:37     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This does seem overly complicated to me. If my parents stood money from a bank or embezzled a bunch of money and gave it me I do not get to keep it; or do I?

I just do not see what the big deal is to have the kids go through the normal immigration process, or am I missing some other part of this debate?


It isn't the kids fault the parents broke the law. They were educated here, associate as being Americans, many serve in the military. We have invested millions in taxpayer education dollars and these folks have returned many millions more in productivity and taxes. What possible benefit is there to deporting them now?


Most of those kids speak the language and hold the values and traditions of their home countries. You see them waving their native flags every chance they get. So I don't see the problem.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 19:36     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?


They did just fine coming into a country they didn't know or have connections to.

Why the attempts at emotional manipulation? WRONG is WRONG.

If I rob a bank do I get to keep the money because going back to a life of poverty-or jail-would be just oh so emotionally heart-wrenching for me?

I don't understand why every country feels entitled to America.

A better, long-lasting solution would be to put the energy into building their countries that they put into staying in the US. The US had to go through its battles, wars, upheaval and turmoil to get to where it is. They need to roll up their sleeves and get to work on theirs instead of seeking the easy out.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 18:24     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump would make DACA legal in a minute for wall funding.

But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.

These people are now pawns in the political posturing.


The Dems offers him $25B for the wall in 2018 in exchange for DACA.

Trump backed out. Why?

Trump has backed out of 3 Wall deals with Democrats: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shutdown-has-been-a-year-in-the-making-11547498818

It sounds like Trump is using DACA kids for political posturing.



They offered him the promise of 25B. NOt the samel


Schumer offered $25B for the wall in exchange for DACA. Trump said yes at first in-person to Schumer and then used Twitter to say there was no deal.

Trump turned down $25B for the Wall. Why does he keep using DACA kids as a bargaining chip?


Again, offered the PROMISE of 25B
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 18:13     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:The real problem is not daca- its the archaic 14th amendment that was created to make sure states recognized former slaves and descendants of slaves as citizens.
It turned into the shit show of birth tourism and anchor babies.

DACA is a rounding error compared to that, while good intended, stupidly worded train wreck of work.


+1. Yep, birthright citizenship is a very problematic modern legacy of our sinful past. We need to change it desperately, but we essentially can’t.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 18:04     Subject: I don’t get DACA
The real problem is not daca- its the archaic 14th amendment that was created to make sure states recognized former slaves and descendants of slaves as citizens.
It turned into the shit show of birth tourism and anchor babies.

DACA is a rounding error compared to that, while good intended, stupidly worded train wreck of work.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:30     Subject: Re:I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
I would be fine with letting them stay as a one time exception if and only if Congress agrees to comprehensive immigration reform, full wall funding, enhanced border security, and the end of birthright citizenship.


We already did the one-time-exception thing in the 1980s. We should not do it again. I'm sort of amazed at the number of people here who are willing to legitimize lawlessness. We have laws and they should be enforced (and not contradicted by executive orders). If the laws are unenforcable, then they need to be changed.

The border wall thing is a massively stupid boondoggle. There is no evidence that it will be effective at reducing the number of illegal border crossings (most illegal aliens in the US entered legally, anyway). It is also unreasonably expensive and creates ongoing maintenance costs. Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. I am all for trying to prevent people from coming here illegally in order to have children here, but I object to the idea of changing the Constitution in such a drastic way. I am iffy on "enhanced border security," depending upon what that actually means. If it is effective, then I support it. If not, then I do not. Again, most illegal aliens enter the US legally and then over-stay their visas.


And this is why we get absolutely nowhere on immigration. Liberals simply want to allow everybody in, and Conservatives are so worried about the Constitution and the potential impact on their guns that they won’t touch birthright citizenship, which literally no other developed nation except Canada has retained, and even they are trying to abolish it. Our entire system is so arbitrary and broken, and no one will ever work together to fix it. We deserve our downward spiral due to our sheer stupidity and obstinance.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:23     Subject: Re:I don’t get DACA
I would be fine with letting them stay as a one time exception if and only if Congress agrees to comprehensive immigration reform, full wall funding, enhanced border security, and the end of birthright citizenship.


We already did the one-time-exception thing in the 1980s. We should not do it again. I'm sort of amazed at the number of people here who are willing to legitimize lawlessness. We have laws and they should be enforced (and not contradicted by executive orders). If the laws are unenforcable, then they need to be changed.

The border wall thing is a massively stupid boondoggle. There is no evidence that it will be effective at reducing the number of illegal border crossings (most illegal aliens in the US entered legally, anyway). It is also unreasonably expensive and creates ongoing maintenance costs. Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. I am all for trying to prevent people from coming here illegally in order to have children here, but I object to the idea of changing the Constitution in such a drastic way. I am iffy on "enhanced border security," depending upon what that actually means. If it is effective, then I support it. If not, then I do not. Again, most illegal aliens enter the US legally and then over-stay their visas.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:11     Subject: I don’t get DACA
DACA will be front and center in the 2020 election, with the Supreme Court’s decision arriving at the height of it.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:08     Subject: Re:I don’t get DACA
This whole issue boils down racial politics and voting demographics. A lot of Trump voters view this as a tipping point toward irreversibly changing the racial makeup of the voting and breeding population in America, thus accelerating the gradual decline of America and the end of white hegemony in America. This is the harbinger of the end for them; hence the hardline stance of the base that caused Trump to pull out of previous deals. He would be pilloried by his base if he granted amnesty in any form or fashion.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:02     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Boy even Ann Coulter thinks Trump is wrong here

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1194330911321579524

Okay, that does it. I give up. They can stay. You must go.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 17:00     Subject: I don’t get DACA
DACA is a problem. It encourages parents to continue to bring their children here in the expectation that 10 or 15 years from now they also will receive some similar protection. The Dreamers also never blame their parents who put them in this terrible position. I would be fine with letting them stay as a one time exception if and only if Congress agrees to comprehensive immigration reform, full wall funding, enhanced border security, and the end of birthright citizenship. Since that is unlikely to happen, once the Supreme Court rules against DACA, which will happen, then they should be deported to their home countries in accordance with US law. That is my view.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 16:53     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?


So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?

Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.

Solid plan.


This is an inappropriate comparison.




DP. Why? Both parents committed a crime that benefitted the children. You want to penalize his children for his actions, reward the others.

DP.. Children of Madoff won't be completely destitute. There are social services that would help.

It's not an appropriate comparison. You're talking about kicking someone out of their own country. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's their country. This is all they know. Imagine if they were brought here at the age of one or two. People like that were practically born here. I immigrated here at two (yes, legally, I'm now a citizen). When people ask if I was born here, I say, no, I'm an immigrant; I came here at two. Their response is usually, oh, you were practically born here.


The just deported Joe Guidice. Both he and illegals broke the law. Why can’t he stay when he has American citizen kids and an American citizen wife? You


Actually, DACA recipients are not considered to have committed a crime because at the age they were brought over by their parents, they’re not deemed not capable of the requisite intent to commit the crime.


Genuinely curious: what abou after they reach adulthood and realize that they are in a country illegally?


Some of them did not know they were brought here illegally until it is time to get a drivers license, apply for college, get a job.

Once they reach adulthood they have no option to become a citizen without leaving the country for 10 years and applying and hoping they get approved.

They don't speak the language of their country, they don't have family there, they don't have a job there or any way to take care of themselves.


Those are definitely problems, I agree. How are those the problems of the US? Why are we required to solve these problems for them? Are they incapable of learning a new language, like plenty of new immigrants do when the come to the US? Are they incapable of living afar form their relatives, like many immigrants do? Are they incapable of finding a job in a different country - if so then what economic value do they have here in the US? If a person has no capability of taking care of themselves outside of the US, what are they doing here in the US? Why is our responsibility to take care of them?


Why on earth do you support the idea that we would kick out people that we have educated and who are culturally and emotionally americans? That makes no sense economically or from a humanitarian perspective. Add in that they had no ownership in the decision to break the law and this becomes a no brainer.

The only thing you create by deporting someone like that is an enemy to the country.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2019 16:04     Subject: I don’t get DACA
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Trump would make DACA legal in a minute for wall funding.

But everyone wants an issue more than a solution.

These people are now pawns in the political posturing.


The Dems offers him $25B for the wall in 2018 in exchange for DACA.

Trump backed out. Why?

Trump has backed out of 3 Wall deals with Democrats: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shutdown-has-been-a-year-in-the-making-11547498818

It sounds like Trump is using DACA kids for political posturing.



They offered him the promise of 25B. NOt the samel


Schumer offered $25B for the wall in exchange for DACA. Trump said yes at first in-person to Schumer and then used Twitter to say there was no deal.

Trump turned down $25B for the Wall. Why does he keep using DACA kids as a bargaining chip?