Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a reason for million sings, do not block the intersection..... they are for op.

If there is no room for you on the street you're turning onto then wait, but if that street is clear, move into the intersection.

+1. This is clear.

This is the way you're supposed to turn left. The reason is that the cars behind the one turning left are not blocked from going around them.

This is how I was taught to drive. I get pissed off when people just sit there blocking all traffic instead of moving into the intersection to wait for a space to turn.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drives me crazy. I go around sometimes - if they sit there for an entire light cycle.

Dear God please don't do this! An impatient woman ran over an 11-year old girl in our neighborhood who was crossing the street and killed her. The car in front of the line was waiting for the girl to cross the street and the idiot who will rot in hell was too impatient to wait one full minute, went around the car in front, and ran this poor girl over.

That is completely different than what the OP is describing.

It is exactly what OP is describing.

It's really not. OP is talking about people waiting in the intersection to turn left. This is someone going AROUND the first car in the line to turn left. The latter is exceptionally more dangerous.

Yes, it is. It is the same impatient, self-important attitude that says What I want is more important than traffic safety. I am more important than anyone else at this intersection.

You all really don't get it.

We're all talking about THE FIRST CAR IN THE LINE. In the WaPo article I posted, they made it clear that the FIRST CAR can wait in the intersection to turn. That's 100% legal.

No one is talking about any other car in the line doing anything but wait outside the intersection.

Until that care doesn't go and blocks the intersection. Are you purposefully obtuse?! It is illegal to make a left turn on red light. And you will get a ticket for that.

The WaPo article made it clear that if you are ALREADY in the intersection and the light turns red, you have right of way to complete your turn.

That is what I was taught too.

I am sorry your driver education was so poor. No one *ever* has the right of way. One can only yield the right of way. Yes, if you are blocking the intersection and the light is red, the other drivers should yield the right of way. This doesn't make your action legal.

Anonymous wrote:

We're all talking about THE FIRST CAR IN THE LINE. In the WaPo article I posted, they made it clear that the FIRST CAR can wait in the intersection to turn. That's 100% legal.

No one is talking about any other car in the line doing anything but wait outside the intersection.

It doesn't matter if you put it in all capitals and yell, you are still wrong. The WaPo is not the law and is nothing by hearsay. Let's look at the DC MVA Driver's Manual, which *IS* the law:

Note that these are excerpts that are cut and pasted from the document, the sections are not contiguous.

Right-of-Way
• If you are about to turn left at an intersection or into an alley, private road or driveway, you must yield the right-of-way to other pedestrians and vehicles until it is safe to turn

Driving Rules
Left Turn
• Do not block the intersection while waiting for oncoming traffic to clear
• It is illegal to make a left turn on red in the District of Columbia

Stopping
Stop Means Cease Movement and No Rolling Stops
• Before entering an intersection when the roadway beyond the intersection is blocked with traffic, you should stop and proceed through the intersection once it is no longer blocked. Don’t Block the Box! Don’t Block the Crosswalk!

Stopping, Standing, Parking – Prohibited
Except when necessary to avoid a conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device, do not stop a vehicle:
• Within an intersection

Steady Green Signal
Proceed with caution after you have checked first to see that other vehicles have cleared the intersection. When it is safe to proceed, you may enter the intersection to go straight ahead or turn unless a sign or additional signal prohibits the turn.

The DC MVA is consistent. Do not enter the intersection until the intersection is clear for you to complete your move, like your left turn. The intersection cameras are not just money grabs, they are there as a deterrence from this practice of blocking the box with the intent of turning left.

It used to be ignored to do what OP is suggesting because it used to be more common for oncoming traffic to actually stop and leave the tail end of the yellow for the lead car to make the turn. Now, most oncoming traffic runs the yellow and many run the red, so there is no guarantee, in fact, it is almost assured that the car in the intersection will be turning left on red, rather on yellow as it is becoming less and less likely that traffic will leave any yellow light for turning vehicles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Twice this morning I’m behind people who don’t know to move into the intersection on green, then turn left on yellow.

Because your not supposed to start your turn once the light has already turned yellow.

No, yellow means "clear the intersection." You're supposed to be in the intersection so you can clear it on yellow.

Exactly.

It’s not this hard, people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cbs19news.com/content/news/Left-turn-on-green-divides-drivers-510778551.html

About 60 percent of nearly 1,000 respondents say they wait behind the white line while the remaining 40 percent pull in to the intersection.

Charlottesville Police Sergeant Josh Manzano agrees.

"The preferred method is for people to remain behind the stop bar until it's safe to proceed all the way through the intersection," he said.

Attorney Scott Goodman says there are other ways drivers can get a ticket while turning left at an intersection, even if they don't cause a crash.

"It’s a question of public safety,” Goodman said. “So if there is a chance at all that someone's maneuver with a vehicle could possibly cause a problem for other vehicles or pedestrians, then an officer can cite that individual for being in the way for obstructing traffic for failing to yield the right of way."

Goodman also says waiting behind the white stop bar before a left turn has another benefit.

"You're never going to get a ticket if you wait at the white stop bar,” he said. “Even if someone's honking at you."

If waiting an extra light cycle is going to make you late for wherever you're going, maybe you should have left earlier. I'm not willing to risk my safety or the safety of others because you're impatient behind me.

Yes, we know there are A LOT of bad drivers in VA. Thanks for proving the point.

In this area the worst drivers are in DC and Maryland.

Says the slow-ass Virginia driver who is checking her phone while going under the speed limit in the left lane.

I've done extensive research, and VA drivers are the worst on the East Coast.

Sorry the insurance carrier studies show DC is the worst and so is Maryland.thats reflected in insurance rates.

D.C and Maryland ranked right at the bottom, while Virginia drivers fared much better, at 25th place nationwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2019/06/26/drivers-these-two-cities-are-worst-report-says/

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-americas-worst-drivers-20190625-story.html

https://www.carinsurance.com/Articles/best-worst-states-driving.aspx

LOL. That doesn’t say what it thinks you say.

Most VA drivers suck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because there's a pedestrian, or I see a pedestrian approaching.

I see SO many drivers get into the intersection to prepare for a turn, but are only paying attention to car traffic, instead of pedestrians (with the right of way).

I drive, but I'm mostly a pedestrian and have lost count of the times I've been nearly hit by someone doing what OP wants.

If you are in the intersection, you actually have a better view of pedestrians who are crossing or approaching the crosswalk.

You might need your eyes checked if a few feet forward suddenly gives you clarity about approaching pedestrians.

My experience is that people are largely only paying attention to cars and being able to swing that quick left, than make sure pedestrians are fully clear, first.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Twice this morning I’m behind people who don’t know to move into the intersection on green, then turn left on yellow.

Because your not supposed to start your turn once the light has already turned yellow.

No, yellow means "clear the intersection." You're supposed to be in the intersection so you can clear it on yellow.

Anonymous wrote:Because there's a pedestrian, or I see a pedestrian approaching.

I see SO many drivers get into the intersection to prepare for a turn, but are only paying attention to car traffic, instead of pedestrians (with the right of way).

I drive, but I'm mostly a pedestrian and have lost count of the times I've been nearly hit by someone doing what OP wants.

If you are in the intersection, you actually have a better view of pedestrians who are crossing or approaching the crosswalk.

Anonymous wrote:Drives me crazy. I go around sometimes - if they sit there for an entire light cycle.

Do not do this!!! You will cause an accident. Be patient. There is no need to be aggressive and you should not be in a hurry. The goal of driving is to get the place you are going alive.

Because there's a pedestrian, or I see a pedestrian approaching.

I see SO many drivers get into the intersection to prepare for a turn, but are only paying attention to car traffic, instead of pedestrians (with the right of way).

I drive, but I'm mostly a pedestrian and have lost count of the times I've been nearly hit by someone doing what OP wants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cbs19news.com/content/news/Left-turn-on-green-divides-drivers-510778551.html

About 60 percent of nearly 1,000 respondents say they wait behind the white line while the remaining 40 percent pull in to the intersection.

Charlottesville Police Sergeant Josh Manzano agrees.

"The preferred method is for people to remain behind the stop bar until it's safe to proceed all the way through the intersection," he said.

Attorney Scott Goodman says there are other ways drivers can get a ticket while turning left at an intersection, even if they don't cause a crash.

"It’s a question of public safety,” Goodman said. “So if there is a chance at all that someone's maneuver with a vehicle could possibly cause a problem for other vehicles or pedestrians, then an officer can cite that individual for being in the way for obstructing traffic for failing to yield the right of way."

Goodman also says waiting behind the white stop bar before a left turn has another benefit.

"You're never going to get a ticket if you wait at the white stop bar,” he said. “Even if someone's honking at you."

If waiting an extra light cycle is going to make you late for wherever you're going, maybe you should have left earlier. I'm not willing to risk my safety or the safety of others because you're impatient behind me.

Yes, we know there are A LOT of bad drivers in VA. Thanks for proving the point.

In this area the worst drivers are in DC and Maryland.

Says the slow-ass Virginia driver who is checking her phone while going under the speed limit in the left lane.

I've done extensive research, and VA drivers are the worst on the East Coast.

Sorry the insurance carrier studies show DC is the worst and so is Maryland.thats reflected in insurance rates.

D.C and Maryland ranked right at the bottom, while Virginia drivers fared much better, at 25th place nationwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2019/06/26/drivers-these-two-cities-are-worst-report-says/

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-americas-worst-drivers-20190625-story.html

https://www.carinsurance.com/Articles/best-worst-states-driving.aspx

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not to enter the intersection unless you can complete your traffic maneuver.

Yes, I understand the practical implications of entering and waiting to turn left. I do it. It's not legal. Neither is consistently driving above the speed limit.

Completely false

Keep dreaming. It's a logical outcome from don't block the box. You should never be hanging around in an intersection.

Ok, I will when I get home. You'll still be sitting at the intersection. By the way blocking the box refers to blocking the crosswalk, not necessarily the intersection as you can pull out past the crosswalk if you are the first car, similarly if you have driven in the burbs for any amount of time there are many intersections that don't have crosswalks due to lack of sidewalks or even because of dense trees or some other reason.

You have no idea what don't block the box means. It has nothing to do with crosswalks.

mmmkay

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drives me crazy. I go around sometimes - if they sit there for an entire light cycle.

Dear God please don't do this! An impatient woman ran over an 11-year old girl in our neighborhood who was crossing the street and killed her. The car in front of the line was waiting for the girl to cross the street and the idiot who will rot in hell was too impatient to wait one full minute, went around the car in front, and ran this poor girl over.

That is completely different than what the OP is describing.

It is exactly what OP is describing.

It's really not. OP is talking about people waiting in the intersection to turn left. This is someone going AROUND the first car in the line to turn left. The latter is exceptionally more dangerous.

Yes, it is. It is the same impatient, self-important attitude that says What I want is more important than traffic safety. I am more important than anyone else at this intersection.

You all really don't get it.

We're all talking about THE FIRST CAR IN THE LINE. In the WaPo article I posted, they made it clear that the FIRST CAR can wait in the intersection to turn. That's 100% legal.

No one is talking about any other car in the line doing anything but wait outside the intersection.

Until that care doesn't go and blocks the intersection. Are you purposefully obtuse?! It is illegal to make a left turn on red light. And you will get a ticket for that.

The WaPo article made it clear that if you are ALREADY in the intersection and the light turns red, you have right of way to complete your turn.

That is what I was taught too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not to enter the intersection unless you can complete your traffic maneuver.

Yes, I understand the practical implications of entering and waiting to turn left. I do it. It's not legal. Neither is consistently driving above the speed limit.

In bold.

That is the exact opposite of what I was taught in driver’s ed if the road you’re turning onto is clear.