Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:38
Subject: Re:Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Where are these schools that allow classes during lunch? Lunch at my kids' school was 25 minutes and class periods were at least 90 minutes. Sometimes lunch is in the middle of another class (i.e., they leave and come back)
It doesn't matter how driven your kid is - unless they've mastered the space-time continuum, it can't be done. It's not a sign of laziness.
I doubt that top colleges "punish" kids for committing to band, orchestra or theater for four years. And these are not "after school" activities. You can't just take band after school if you need to take 16 AP classes to appease your parents. It's a regular class with a real teacher and everything!
There was no "shop" class at their high school, because FCPS changed the name of their shop class to "STEM Engineering" and weighted it to honors level so people would take it. I think they learned some CAD drawing and my son made a wooden clock lol.
It doesn't matter how driven your kid is - unless they've mastered the space-time continuum, it can't be done. It's not a sign of laziness.
I doubt that top colleges "punish" kids for committing to band, orchestra or theater for four years. And these are not "after school" activities. You can't just take band after school if you need to take 16 AP classes to appease your parents. It's a regular class with a real teacher and everything!
There was no "shop" class at their high school, because FCPS changed the name of their shop class to "STEM Engineering" and weighted it to honors level so people would take it. I think they learned some CAD drawing and my son made a wooden clock lol.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:34
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?
Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.
Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?
Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.
Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.
I think.... you’re not American. You’re imagining a childhood in a different country.
I'm a 47 year old American, and yes when I was in HS, most kids took one of the above electives.
I’m 47 and not a single friend of mine in HS who attended a top college (maybe even anyone who attended college?) took one of those classes. Music/theater were after school activities. Home ec and shop were for the druggies.
You would think after all those years you would have learned more.
Like what? If you want to go to a top school you don’t need to learn how to boil an egg for school credit?
Plenty of opportunities to learn life skills outside of HS credits.
That “literature, music and the arts are essential, timeless examples of the human experience”. — TJ Mission & Belief statement.
— parent whose kid learned to weld and was required to learn how to solder and wire electronics there.
And how many AP classes did your kid also take?
Plenty of credit-worthy opportunities for “literature, music, and arts”. Boiling an egg? Learn that at home.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:23
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?
Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.
Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?
Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.
Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.
I think.... you’re not American. You’re imagining a childhood in a different country.
I'm a 47 year old American, and yes when I was in HS, most kids took one of the above electives.
I’m 47 and not a single friend of mine in HS who attended a top college (maybe even anyone who attended college?) took one of those classes. Music/theater were after school activities. Home ec and shop were for the druggies.
You would think after all those years you would have learned more.
Like what? If you want to go to a top school you don’t need to learn how to boil an egg for school credit?
Plenty of opportunities to learn life skills outside of HS credits.
That “literature, music and the arts are essential, timeless examples of the human experience”. — TJ Mission & Belief statement.
— parent whose kid learned to weld and was required to learn how to solder and wire electronics there.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:15
Subject: Re:Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.
Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.
Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.
It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.
haha NO
Please do not listen to this advice.
Everyone needs AP US and European history.
+ 1
Take studio art or music theory during your lunch period. Eat a couple snacks in the hallway before class.
AP Music Theory is a serious class. If you don’t know that, I can’t help. I know my kid took it in a STEM heavy schedule with plenty of ALs and other music interest. When he interviewed at WM, the interviewer walked out and said out of nowhere “I really love seeing a STEM kid taking AP Theory.” Of course music theory and math are very intertwined. If you don’t know what you are talking about, don’t say it. Many of the AP AP practices classes are also very high level.
It might be hard but I agree with the PP that a very serious student would take the class during lunch so that he or she still has room for AP US or European history. Ideally, you'd have all three in your schedule.
+ 1
I am perplexed the respondent to this does not comprehend this. AP US and AP Euro are the basics. It would be like giving up AP Eng Lit. No, you don't do that.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:07
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?
Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.
Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?
Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.
Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.
I think.... you’re not American. You’re imagining a childhood in a different country.
I'm a 47 year old American, and yes when I was in HS, most kids took one of the above electives.
I’m 47 and not a single friend of mine in HS who attended a top college (maybe even anyone who attended college?) took one of those classes. Music/theater were after school activities. Home ec and shop were for the druggies.
You would think after all those years you would have learned more.
Like what? If you want to go to a top school you don’t need to learn how to boil an egg for school credit?
Plenty of opportunities to learn life skills outside of HS credits.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:02
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't think they "punish" kids so much as they reward kids who have demonstrated the ability to handle challenging academics. Sure, a kid who has fewer academic classes on their schedule MIGHT be able to handle the work, but there is no proof of that so schools would rather go with the kid who has demonstrated the ability rather than speculate about a kid who has not.
Also, for some kids, AP European History IS a "fun" subject. My kid would certainly be more interested in that over band or drama.
If parents are concerned about kids being overloaded, they need to push back on their high schools, school boards, and state departments of education to limit the number of APs kids can take and to mandate a certain number of "soft" electives to graduate. For example, if no one can take more than 4 APs a year, then everyone would be on the same playing field and this would be the "most rigorous" schedule available. As long as this is not the case, the most ambitious and hard working kids are going to max out their schedules. In the meantime, it is up to you as a parent to decide if you want to allow your kid to participate in this arms race.
Well said. I have long wished the schools (FCPS, in our case) would limit AP classes. But since they don’t, we long ago removed our kids from the road to nowhere. They take a few APs in their favorite subjects and we call it a day.
That's a shame, that means they won't even have a shot at top fifty colleges.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 08:00
Subject: Re:Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.
Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.
Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.
It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.
haha NO
Please do not listen to this advice.
Everyone needs AP US and European history.
+ 1
Take studio art or music theory during your lunch period. Eat a couple snacks in the hallway before class.
AP Music Theory is a serious class. If you don’t know that, I can’t help. I know my kid took it in a STEM heavy schedule with plenty of ALs and other music interest. When he interviewed at WM, the interviewer walked out and said out of nowhere “I really love seeing a STEM kid taking AP Theory.” Of course music theory and math are very intertwined. If you don’t know what you are talking about, don’t say it. Many of the AP AP practices classes are also very high level.
It might be hard but I agree with the PP that a very serious student would take the class during lunch so that he or she still has room for AP US or European history. Ideally, you'd have all three in your schedule.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:59
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Let’s talk numbers. For example, Penn Stare has approximately 100,000 freshman apps. With a limited time to review and a staff of x number admissions officers. If anyone thinks large Universities read your DC essay or cares that they take a few electives, I have a bridge to sell you.
I’m not saying don’t have your child do their best, but this thread is absurd,
Do you think Penn State qualifies as a "top" college???
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:58
Subject: Re:Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For kids who are aiming at top colleges and truly have a shot, they can take their "fun" elective during lunch. Very common at the school were I teach.
If your kid truly does not have a serious shot at these schools, I wouldn't bother.
Our school doesn't allow this.
And it shouldn’t! That is ridiculous! People need breaks. It is a terrible lesson to teach kids. Also, if the school doesn’t allow it, the kid isn’t expected to do it. The colleges will know the kid can’t take an elective during lunch and will think it’s ok to take it during the regular school day.
That same goes for APs. If your school limits them, your kid gets the advantage of a reasonable schedule while still having a “rigorous” schedule. Why do parents push schools for more and more APs when it only means their child will have to pack more into their schedule? All of this insane pressure on kids is being caused by insecure, overbearing parents!
You sound out of touch. Do you work? Most people eat at their desks in order to leave earlier.
Anyway, serious students should be able to do this, no problem. If your special snowflake can't, he or she is obviously not competitive enough for the top schools.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:52
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?
Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.
Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?
Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.
Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.
I think.... you’re not American. You’re imagining a childhood in a different country.
I'm a 47 year old American, and yes when I was in HS, most kids took one of the above electives.
I’m 47 and not a single friend of mine in HS who attended a top college (maybe even anyone who attended college?) took one of those classes. Music/theater were after school activities. Home ec and shop were for the druggies.
You would think after all those years you would have learned more.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:10
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Of course they can take fun electives. Colleges are in the business of making money. The less AP's you take the more they make. Not saying to not take Ap classes, but a few electives will not impact admissions. I know my stance will be unpopular with the "going to Ivies" crowd. Guess what I had three go to Ivies all got in with those "fun" electives. Yes, they did have high GPA's and ACT or SAT scores. No they did not have any "hooks" except coming from a W school in Montgomery County.
Too colleges don’t typically give credit for APS. Might affect class selection but you don’t take fewer classes overall.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:07
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?
Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.
Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?
Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.
Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.
I think.... you’re not American. You’re imagining a childhood in a different country.
I'm a 47 year old American, and yes when I was in HS, most kids took one of the above electives.
I’m 47 and not a single friend of mine in HS who attended a top college (maybe even anyone who attended college?) took one of those classes. Music/theater were after school activities. Home ec and shop were for the druggies.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 07:04
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
I got into Yale and I took Gourmet Foods, Home Ec, and Art (though arguably that is a very challenging and intellectual class).
Anonymous
10/10/2019 06:57
Subject: Re:Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
I haven't read the whole thread, but my son had to make a decision in his senior year between an AP course and piano. He chose the AP course (AP Spanish). He had two electives in senior year and chose to take a film course for one and the AP for the second. He had taken piano for two years in high school (10 years privately), and really wanted to do it the last year. But he had more of a passion for film and photography.
The reason he didn't use his two electives for "fun" courses is because he only took two APs in his junior year and his counselor and all of us felt that he was better off taking 4 APs in senior year in order to show rigor. He was aiming for a top 15 school and ultimately was admitted. Would he have been admitted if he took piano? We will never know, but my gut says it would have been more of a stretch.
OP, I really think it depends on your son's interests and how important it is to him that he get into a "top college." For ours, it was important, because he really loved the school and it was worth the sacrifice.
The reason he didn't use his two electives for "fun" courses is because he only took two APs in his junior year and his counselor and all of us felt that he was better off taking 4 APs in senior year in order to show rigor. He was aiming for a top 15 school and ultimately was admitted. Would he have been admitted if he took piano? We will never know, but my gut says it would have been more of a stretch.
OP, I really think it depends on your son's interests and how important it is to him that he get into a "top college." For ours, it was important, because he really loved the school and it was worth the sacrifice.
Anonymous
10/10/2019 06:09
Subject: Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?
Anonymou[b wrote:s]Most parents (I pray) are not on the “Top 10” crazy train, so I do not agree that people’s Posts should be geared towards that crow[/b]d
OP here. Did you not read the title? Of course the posts should be geared toward that crowd! And actually I'm not only counting top 10 as top colleges, I'm thinking more like top 20. But why come on a thread that is specifically asking for admissions to one of these schools and say things like, you don't need to talk Calc BC, (unless you can give an example of an unhooked kid getting in without it), or you shouldn't care about sending your kid to one of these schools. That can be the topic for a different thread, not one that is SPECIFICALLY asking about admissions to a top school.