Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:58     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Funny story: I have been asked many, MANY times in my life if I am Jewish. I have pale skin and thick dark hair, which is wavy/curly if not straightened. I once went back and forth with someone who insisted I looked Jewish and that I must be mistaken. Life long Catholic from many generations of Catholics, Irish mom, middle eastern dad. Recently had to genetic testing during a pregnancy, which turned up some mutations specific to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Guess they were right.

Anyway, I don't identify as Jewish so I can't answer whether or not it would be offensive to someone who is Jewish - I have never been offended when asked.


Then you were just dumb for your entire life and wrapped up in what you thought whiteness was. Bc a middle eastern dad means other and not generally white european looking.


Exactly. Also, you should know that you're Jewish, whether you choose to identify as Jewish or not.


To the PP who used the word "dumb," you clearly have reading comprehension deficits because I never used the term white in my post. You assumed that I was "wrapped up in what [I] thought whiteness was," which implies that I favor one side of my heritage over another. Something you wish to have read, but didn't.

And to the second individual who echoed that I am dumb, I deliberately chose the word "identify" because I now recognize that its in my bloodline, but I was not raised in the Jewish faith. Wouldn't it be a little disingenuous to begin telling people I am Jewish, full stop?
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:54     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.


Alright, fine. But do you accept the reality that 10-11 million of the 16 million Jews are Ashkenazi, which is a distinct genetic group that has physical similarities? Or are you just pretending that doesn't exist.


I'm a DP, I posted above also saying (as a Jew) that I think it's offensive, and I agree with the PP. I accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, but I don't see why that makes a difference.


If you accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, and thus have related genes, how do you deny the objective reality that many have physical characteristics in common, just as Swedes or Norwegians or Irish or Poles or Kenyans do? Is it offensive to observe -- in a neutral, non-derogatory way -- that there are a ton of super blond kids in Sweden even though not all Swedish kids are blond? Or that different African tribes may have different facial features? Or that Japanese say they can tell at a glance who is Japanese and who is of a different Asian ethnicity despite having similar hair and eye color because of a distinctive "look" even though not everyone looks that way? Yes, some Jews have red hair and freckles, and some have blond hair and blue eyes, etc, but overall in a given population of Ashkenazi Jews, there is a much higher percentage of dark and wavy or curly hair than red or blond hair. It's not a value judgement, it's an observation.

It's only when you impute negative stereotypes to observed characteristics that it becomes offensive.


+1 This is exactly what I've been arguing on this thread. I have no clue why people want to so vehemently deny this. Just because it's been exploited by anti-Semites doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a reality for many Jews. When I visited Russia, I had people tell me--seconds after meeting me--"you're Jewish, aren't you?" I don't wear anything that would suggest I'm Jewish. I have straight brown hair and hazel eyes. I am, in fact, only half-Jewish. But they could just tell.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:51     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.


Alright, fine. But do you accept the reality that 10-11 million of the 16 million Jews are Ashkenazi, which is a distinct genetic group that has physical similarities? Or are you just pretending that doesn't exist.


I'm a DP, I posted above also saying (as a Jew) that I think it's offensive, and I agree with the PP. I accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, but I don't see why that makes a difference.


If you accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, and thus have related genes, how do you deny the objective reality that many have physical characteristics in common, just as Swedes or Norwegians or Irish or Poles or Kenyans do? Is it offensive to observe -- in a neutral, non-derogatory way -- that there are a ton of super blond kids in Sweden even though not all Swedish kids are blond? Or that different African tribes may have different facial features? Or that Japanese say they can tell at a glance who is Japanese and who is of a different Asian ethnicity despite having similar hair and eye color because of a distinctive "look" even though not everyone looks that way? Yes, some Jews have red hair and freckles, and some have blond hair and blue eyes, etc, but overall in a given population of Ashkenazi Jews, there is a much higher percentage of dark and wavy or curly hair than red or blond hair. It's not a value judgement, it's an observation.

It's only when you impute negative stereotypes to observed characteristics that it becomes offensive.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:45     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.


Alright, fine. But do you accept the reality that 10-11 million of the 16 million Jews are Ashkenazi, which is a distinct genetic group that has physical similarities? Or are you just pretending that doesn't exist.


I'm a DP, I posted above also saying (as a Jew) that I think it's offensive, and I agree with the PP. I accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, but I don't see why that makes a difference.


Really? Ashkenazi Jews ARE AN ETHNIC GROUP. As such we have physical similarities.

That doesn't mean all Jews look the same, but it does mean there are SOME similarities in how many Jews look.

Read about us before you make assumptions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetics
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:42     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.


Alright, fine. But do you accept the reality that 10-11 million of the 16 million Jews are Ashkenazi, which is a distinct genetic group that has physical similarities? Or are you just pretending that doesn't exist.


I'm a DP, I posted above also saying (as a Jew) that I think it's offensive, and I agree with the PP. I accept that a large proportion of Jews are Ashkenazi, but I don't see why that makes a difference.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:41     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:Can the answer be “neither.”

I get the people saying they don’t mean or take it as an insult. But considering the long history of antisemetic propaganda and the tightly bound history of nazism and the “Jewish Look”
I think there’s a good case to be made that it’s not a benign statement


This. Even if meant as an innocuous comment, it's pretty clueless to say it in mixed (Jew/gentile) company.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:38     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.


Alright, fine. But do you accept the reality that 10-11 million of the 16 million Jews are Ashkenazi, which is a distinct genetic group that has physical similarities? Or are you just pretending that doesn't exist.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:36     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.


I am Jewish and have expressed my opinion. I don’t care if it doesn’t offend you. It offends me. All Jews don’t look alike, feel alike, or have to express the same opinions. We also are not collectively responsible for the actions of all Jews. Some Jews have red hair and freckles. Some have blond hair and blue eyes. Some have button noses, and some have prominent noses. Some Jews are brown and some are fair. There is no one Jewish look. To say that a person looks Jewish feeds into anti-Semitic stereotypes, in my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. This is MY truth.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 14:29     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Except the thing is MANY OF US DON'T look that different.

Not everything is this "oh it's just a huge melting pot" thing. Yes there's diversity in the Jewish population, but 10-11 million of the roughly 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi. We have physical similarities. THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

We have a strong history that binds us together. I'm not ashamed of looking Jewish. I'm not ashamed of looking at my family--and my people--and seeing physical similarities.

Us Ashkenazi Jews have such strong similarities that there is a genetic panel done during pregnancy called the Ashkenazi Jew panel.

We aren't Christians, who come from every country in the world. There are only 16 million of us, and we are clustered in a small number of countries.



Thank you!!! This is the sentiment that feels right to me. Jews ARE binded together. There is enormous pride in being Jewish. There are some physical similarities among Jews. It is never an insult to look Jewish. If someone hates Jews and makes a negative comment that is altogether a different story.


This. If it's said negatively, it's negative, no matter who says it. If it's a neutral comment or observation, it's not an insult.

It's silly to deny there is an Ashkenazi "look" even if not everyone looks that way. I was in shul for the High Holidays and there was absolutely a more pronounced resemblance among the congregants than, say, among the non-Jewish white folks at my workplace. Lots of very dark wavy/curly hair, fair bit of wavy auburn or dark red hair, pronounced noses. Nothing wrong with these features. And of course plenty of folks don't have them - for example my Jewish mother had white-blond hair until she was 12. But overall enough Jews do have similar features that one can say someone looks Jewish as a general descriptor. My family certainly all plays the "is h/she Jewish?" game, though we are not always right!


Ashkenazi Jew here. I totally agree! I think a lot of non-Jews just don't get it. I think they don't realize how much we just make fun of ourselves. Example:

My family of NY Jews was talking the other day about a sort of hilarious chart on Wikipedia that shows the number of Jews in various countries. Typical exchange: "Oh wow, there are 100 Jews in South Korea." "There are Jews in South Korea? But they don't even eat bagels and lox there! How could Jews survive?"

You really have to be a NY Jew to understand why that conversation isn't really offensive. We've been persecuted for such a long time that we really have grown to embrace self-deprecating humor. It's a survival mechanism.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2019 13:58     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Except the thing is MANY OF US DON'T look that different.

Not everything is this "oh it's just a huge melting pot" thing. Yes there's diversity in the Jewish population, but 10-11 million of the roughly 16 million Jews in the world are Ashkenazi. We have physical similarities. THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

We have a strong history that binds us together. I'm not ashamed of looking Jewish. I'm not ashamed of looking at my family--and my people--and seeing physical similarities.

Us Ashkenazi Jews have such strong similarities that there is a genetic panel done during pregnancy called the Ashkenazi Jew panel.

We aren't Christians, who come from every country in the world. There are only 16 million of us, and we are clustered in a small number of countries.



Thank you!!! This is the sentiment that feels right to me. Jews ARE binded together. There is enormous pride in being Jewish. There are some physical similarities among Jews. It is never an insult to look Jewish. If someone hates Jews and makes a negative comment that is altogether a different story.


This. If it's said negatively, it's negative, no matter who says it. If it's a neutral comment or observation, it's not an insult.

It's silly to deny there is an Ashkenazi "look" even if not everyone looks that way. I was in shul for the High Holidays and there was absolutely a more pronounced resemblance among the congregants than, say, among the non-Jewish white folks at my workplace. Lots of very dark wavy/curly hair, fair bit of wavy auburn or dark red hair, pronounced noses. Nothing wrong with these features. And of course plenty of folks don't have them - for example my Jewish mother had white-blond hair until she was 12. But overall enough Jews do have similar features that one can say someone looks Jewish as a general descriptor. My family certainly all plays the "is h/she Jewish?" game, though we are not always right!
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2019 08:37     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Can the answer be “neither.”

I get the people saying they don’t mean or take it as an insult. But considering the long history of antisemetic propaganda and the tightly bound history of nazism and the “Jewish Look”
I think there’s a good case to be made that it’s not a benign statement
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2019 07:58     Subject: Re:Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:People have always said to me " You're Jewish? Wow..you don't look it." I always say " What does Jewish look like?"

Not "looking" Jewish has assisted me in figuring iut where the anti semitism is in this world. I feel as though I am an infiltrated narc.


Except that antisemitism is everywhere, detective.
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2019 07:55     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
To 22:29 - yes, exactly! Years ago, this is how one of DH’s distant relatives expressed to MIL that she thought that I was pretty: “Wow, she doesn’t look Jewish!”
Anonymous
Post 10/15/2019 07:30     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
Anonymous wrote:It is unacceptable. Period.


Are you Jewish? If not, it’s not for you to say.

If so, recognize not everyone gets offended by it, assuming it’s done innocently.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2019 22:30     Subject: Is the refernece "he/she looks very Jewish" benign or an insult?
It is unacceptable. Period.