Anonymous
Post 08/31/2019 10:19     Subject: Re:How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:It was capitalism that stopped the broad 1980s movement to address climate change, risking global survival. But keep shitting your pants over East Germany and Venezuela. You guys have no idea how much your brains have been ruined by propaganda.


DP. I haven't been to Venezuela, but I did have the 'pleasure" of visiting East Berlin in the '70's. It was on a controlled tour and we were only shown the "best" parts of East Berlin. The difference with West Berlin was astounding. It was the difference between a black and white move and one in color. Everything was dull and gray in East Berlin. a
Interesting, too, that our military was guarding the wall in Berlin and the fences along the entire East/West German border. Yes, there was a fenced border with guard towers and dogs on the East German side. Ironic, though, that all the people trying to cross were from East to West. Many were shot.

I knew Germans who were from the East. They sent care packages back to their families and assured me that it was as bad as everyone said.

As for Venezuela, I've spoken with people who have relatives there. I asked if it were as bad as the reports say, and they said it was "much worse" than the reports. Food is in short supply, etc.

Socialism is a pipe dream. Go read "The Little Red Hen" and "The Ant and the Grasshopper.'

It may be a nice idea. It won't work. Never has and never will. It is essentially taking money from the workers and giving it to those who refuse to work. Most people have no problem with a safety net for those who are not able to work, but resent taking care of those who choose not to work.
Anonymous
Post 08/31/2019 10:08     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Socialism defined by the laws of math. I produce 4 widgets, the less productive person next to me produces 2 widgets. I now have three widgets. How many do you think I will attempt to produce tomorrow.


See, for example, East Germany.


Bernie and Warren love the good old East Germany.

I wonder why they didn't move there.



Because after socialism crapped out in East Germany, the capitalist West Germany saved the East Germans from socialism.




Perhaps Bernie and Warren can go save West Germany from itself?
Anonymous
Post 08/30/2019 20:39     Subject: Re:How do you define Socialism?
It was capitalism that stopped the broad 1980s movement to address climate change, risking global survival. But keep shitting your pants over East Germany and Venezuela. You guys have no idea how much your brains have been ruined by propaganda.
Anonymous
Post 08/30/2019 20:11     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Socialism defined by the laws of math. I produce 4 widgets, the less productive person next to me produces 2 widgets. I now have three widgets. How many do you think I will attempt to produce tomorrow.


See, for example, East Germany.


Bernie and Warren love the good old East Germany.

I wonder why they didn't move there.



Because after socialism crapped out in East Germany, the capitalist West Germany saved the East Germans from socialism.


Ouch.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 12:38     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Socialism defined by the laws of math. I produce 4 widgets, the less productive person next to me produces 2 widgets. I now have three widgets. How many do you think I will attempt to produce tomorrow.


See, for example, East Germany.


Bernie and Warren love the good old East Germany.

I wonder why they didn't move there.



Because after socialism crapped out in East Germany, the capitalist West Germany saved the East Germans from socialism.

Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 12:25     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
12:20 Preach it.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 12:20     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just read some philosophy, economics and then familiarize yourself with the philosophy. For some strange reason the ideas won't die
Don't ask the idiots here


I wondered about this and believe I found a somewhat satisfying answer. As a generalization, leftist politics appeals to those who have character traits that are open, creative, and empathetic. These are our entrepreneurs, our artists, and our risk takers. They are more idealistic in their worldview, with more focus on the result, and less concern on how to get there. What leftists/progressives tend to do, then, is confuse their intentions with the method of achieving those results. They think the end justifies the means. They want racial equality in the outcome of our education system, so therefore it is OK to use racially discriminating policies like affirmative action to achieve it. They want more income/wealth equality, so tax-and-redistribution is a good way to get there. They want everyone to have good quality health care, and government funded single-payer is the fastest way to get there. They want affordable rent - therefore rent control.

Look at their intentions: racial equality, lower income/wealth inequality, good quality healthcare available to everyone, affordable rent - all of these are laudable goals. Are right-wing/conservatives against any of these outcomes? I know I'm not. I am in strong agreement with each and every one of these goals. Where we diverge is that the leftist/progressives will argue that because their intentions are good, that their methods are good, and that anyone who is against their method of achieving these goals must therefore be against the goals themselves. And thus Republicans/Conservatives are evil, racists, homophobic, xenophobic, and etc.


DP. But of course, while wanting equality, the leftist progressive elites (or right wing elites, for that matter) want their children to attend the very best schools and want their neighborhoods to be insulated from problems. Basically, they want to keep on being at the top of the social hierarchy. And they want their own freedom to pursue their bourgeois materialistic aspirations.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 12:15     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:Just read some philosophy, economics and then familiarize yourself with the philosophy. For some strange reason the ideas won't die
Don't ask the idiots here


I wondered about this and believe I found a somewhat satisfying answer. As a generalization, leftist politics appeals to those who have character traits that are open, creative, and empathetic. These are our entrepreneurs, our artists, and our risk takers. They are more idealistic in their worldview, with more focus on the result, and less concern on how to get there. What leftists/progressives tend to do, then, is confuse their intentions with the method of achieving those results. They think the end justifies the means. They want racial equality in the outcome of our education system, so therefore it is OK to use racially discriminating policies like affirmative action to achieve it. They want more income/wealth equality, so tax-and-redistribution is a good way to get there. They want everyone to have good quality health care, and government funded single-payer is the fastest way to get there. They want affordable rent - therefore rent control.

Look at their intentions: racial equality, lower income/wealth inequality, good quality healthcare available to everyone, affordable rent - all of these are laudable goals. Are right-wing/conservatives against any of these outcomes? I know I'm not. I am in strong agreement with each and every one of these goals. Where we diverge is that the leftist/progressives will argue that because their intentions are good, that their methods are good, and that anyone who is against their method of achieving these goals must therefore be against the goals themselves. And thus Republicans/Conservatives are evil, racists, homophobic, xenophobic, and etc.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 11:43     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Just read some philosophy, economics and then familiarize yourself with the philosophy. For some strange reason the ideas won't die
Don't ask the idiots here
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 11:23     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a philosophy or as an economic system? In present day or in the past?


Oh my lord. It's not that hard. Socialism is a philosophy about an economic system - it's a predictive framework for attaining the desired outcomes of abundance and equality. When implemented, socialism has caused nothing but mass suffering and death. It has done this in the past and is presently working its evil magic in places like Cuba and Venezuela.


But that was not Democratic Socialism.


Read the title of the thread. "How do you define Socialism."

If you want a definition for Democratic Socialism, good luck. Try starting a new thread, but you are not going to get much agreement on that definition.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 11:20     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a philosophy or as an economic system? In present day or in the past?


Oh my lord. It's not that hard. Socialism is a philosophy about an economic system - it's a predictive framework for attaining the desired outcomes of abundance and equality. When implemented, socialism has caused nothing but mass suffering and death. It has done this in the past and is presently working its evil magic in places like Cuba and Venezuela.


But that was not Democratic Socialism.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 10:11     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:As a philosophy or as an economic system? In present day or in the past?


Oh my lord. It's not that hard. Socialism is a philosophy about an economic system - it's a predictive framework for attaining the desired outcomes of abundance and equality. When implemented, socialism has caused nothing but mass suffering and death. It has done this in the past and is presently working its evil magic in places like Cuba and Venezuela.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 09:52     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
As a philosophy or as an economic system? In present day or in the past?
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 09:47     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
see Venezuela if you want to know what socialism is.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2019 08:55     Subject: How do you define Socialism?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Socialism defined by the laws of math. I produce 4 widgets, the less productive person next to me produces 2 widgets. I now have three widgets. How many do you think I will attempt to produce tomorrow.


See, for example, East Germany.


Bernie and Warren love the good old East Germany.

I wonder why they didn't move there.


I was recently in Berlin and was told that the former communist-built apartment buildings are now quite popular with the young and hip crowd because of the historical context. Leave it up to new leftists/progressives to derive their enjoyment on the suffering visited onto an entire generation of people by old leftist/progressives.