^ my dad retired at 62 after 37 years with the Feds and had a beautiful retirement—tons of time with grandkids, LOTS of travel, socializing, before he died from cancer at 76. I am so glad he had a happy retirement.

Anonymous wrote:Counting the days!!!

Good for your Mom. I’m 49.5 and started my career at 22, going to grad school nights. That is 27 years so far and damn does it become pure drudgery as you approach h the 14-30 year+ mark. The thought that I would need to work until 67 to receive full retirement benefits is gut wrenching. I don’t plan to go more than 37 years. 62 tops. More people I know are dying of cancer in their 50s/60s without time to ever have a true retirement.

That was meant to be 25-30 years. At my Office they call it the “KMA” club. Aka “kiss my ass” because you could walk out at any time and stop really caring.

Counting the days!!!

Good for your Mom. I’m 49.5 and started my career at 22, going to grad school nights. That is 27 years so far and damn does it become pure drudgery as you approach h the 14-30 year+ mark. The thought that I would need to work until 67 to receive full retirement benefits is gut wrenching. I don’t plan to go more than 37 years. 62 tops. More people I know are dying of cancer in their 50s/60s without time to ever have a true retirement.

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Anonymous wrote:What is she doing for healthcare?

She’s on Medicare (Medicaid?).

Not at 58.

and if Medicaid not likely she has the amount of assets she needs for retiring

OP here. Confused, then - I thought she was enrolled in one of these programs.

If she’s on Medicaid, then she’s very poor. You could encourage her to marry her partner and get on their health insurance.

Part of why I’m concerned is because they’re not married, but my mother is convinced they’ll be together forever. (In addition to his federal job, he has full military retirement and benefits). For a woman who raised me to be financially independent, I don’t know why she now thinks the man is the plan.

If they are not married she receives none of his retirement or benefits. If something happens to him she receives nothing.

This. Who gets his half of the house if he dies? Does your mom get it or does it go to his estate to me given to his kids for example? Your mom could be forced to sell her home if she doesn't get his half. Even if she gets the whole house, what will she live on?

I also agree with another pp who said that you need to get specifics on exactly what assets your mom has. You can't help her until you know that. Once you get that info, You can help her plan better. Is she engaging in magical thinking or does she actually have enough to retire?

OP, I'm so sorry. We went through something similar when our jackass brother talked our mom into moving into a very expensive assisted living facility. Neither of them even spoke with the other siblings until after our mom put down a deposit. We did the math and she couldn't afford it. She would have been out of money in about a decade but the women in her family live until very old. She could have easily had well over 20 years to live. Luckily my sister and I pushed in and demanded the data to crunch the numbers. Once I did this, my mom abandoned this awful plan and luckily got her deposit back. The only reason she didn't move in before telling us is because she didn't like the unit that was available. She would have been $350K in the hole on move in day, not counting any of the astronomical monthly payments. It scares me how close she came to financial ruin. Luckily that unit didn't have a nice view . . .

My mom isn't the brightest and has some mental issues. She engages in magical thinking without relying on facts and data. I still don't understand how someone could make that kind of financial decision without crunching the numbers first. She was SHOCKED when I ran the numbers and she saw how expensive it would be. I might get slammed for saying this, but women of that generation often relied on the man to figure out financials. My dad did it, then after he died my brother stepped in. Our mom generally won't listen to me or my sister even though we're much better with finances and analysis vs. magical thinking.

OP, I feel for you. Try to get your mom's financial data and help her work out a plan so she can see in black and white whether or not she can afford to retire now. I told my mom that she could live with us if needed and we would make sure she had food and toiletries, but we couldn't afford to fund a lavish retirement for her. Be clear with her that you don't plan to delay your own retirement so she can get an early start on hers, or whatever your situation is. Just get your mom to make decisions based on financial data, not dreams.

Anonymous wrote:I’m making this all about me, but I’m worried.

When I was a kid, my mother was a successful professional. Somewhere around the time she was 45, things seemed to falter (I understand she may have burned many bridges). She last held a professional position about five years ago, and has since been intermittently underemployed. She’s decided t cash it on what she was able to invest for retirement, and I’m not sure how this is going to work. (It doesn’t sound like much.)

She lives with her partner, who’s a fed. They’re not married, but they do own a house together. I’m afraid that if that relationship goes south, she’ll be destitute, and I’ll be responsible for her upkeep. She’s in good health and is totally capable. Is there anything I can say or do to have her reconsider? Even some consulting work for the next ten years would be preferable to her deciding not to work anymore.

Thoughts?

She is sucking how dick in lieu of rent.

Congratulate her on a time honored tradition for DCUM women

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Anonymous wrote:American culture is so strange. Grandparents refuse to help out with grandchildren, adult children refuse to help support aging parents. I was born and raised here, but it's such a strange comparison to other cultures where family members are expected to help each other.

It's because of how parents raise children here. I'm an Eastern European (not born here) married to an American. The way my husband was raised, I can only call mild neglect - he was sheltered and fed, but as a baby he was stuck in daycare (my own kids are in daycare, but in his case it was often overnight daycare so his parents could socialize). Starting with elementary school, he was a latchkey kid while parents built careers and lived their best lives. He ate dinner alone most nights unless friends' parents took pity on him. And I'm not talking about people who were working day and night trying to make ends meet, I'm talking about people who left early by choice to go to the gym, and came home late because they stopped for dinner or drinks with friends, leaving their elementary schooler at home alone to heat up frozen processed meals. He was made to move out at 18, worked full time and went to school full time, and got zero help from them - he lived on ketchup on bread at times.

DCUM would say, his parents didn't owe him anything, he was an adult and needed to pay his own way. But now that his parents are old, they expect love and support and a close bond. Where exactly is that bond supposed to come from, magic?

I think you're partially right. But, my parents were raised better. They had a very involved set of grandparents on both sides, as well as aunts and uncles. But, now they seem to not pay that forward at all because they "raised their kids." Well, they are partially right. But, they scored touchdowns with family help that gave them a start on the 50 yard line and they act like they did it themselves. They didn't- in labor or financially. I have see this trend in many, many -though not all, for sure- boomer parents. They view it as "Freedom" from their kids and kid rearing, which tells you what they thought of having kids even with the help.

My parents will be on their own in their elder years.

In other words, you will leave them
Alone because they will not provide free childcare. Ok we get it.

Way to manipulate. Free childcare? How about calling it essential family love and support. Not providing that if you can means you are self centered and narcissistic and yes - your family has every right to be disappointed in you.

Also, it isn't free child care, if the expectation is that the adult children support their elderly parents.

I'm one of the PP's up thread with the "partially right" comment. And this is where I come out. They expect free elder care, so, yes, I do expect them to help out once in awhile. I've never expected full time day care as I have a position that negated that need. But, even if I did need partial day care, and they were able to provide it, yes I don't think it's unreasonable. Not only because it is what family does (at least what our family traditionally did until my parents came along) but they reaped the benefit of that very arrangement. AND now they are going to come to me for help.

So, will they be on their own? Sorry, but yes for the most part. I would help to ensure they are not destitute or homeless. But, I'm not going out of my way to drain my bank, or to divert energy from my family. They didn't. So I'm not sure why I"m now expected to do so.

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Anonymous wrote:Just chiming in to say that my mom did this too--low level fed job that she left because she just didn't feel like working anymore. She had no money and no partner either. She told my sister that we siblings were her retirement plan. As if. In my mom's case once she stopped working she had no idea how to spend her time. Her way of getting out of the house was to go shopping and buy all kinds of crap she didn't need. When we moved her out of her house there was just so much cheap crap new with tags that she tossed in closets still in the original shopping bags. She did take a few trips but otherwise had no idea how to manage without a schedule. What about your mom OP? If she's not working she will be spending more money either for travel or self-improvement projects. You can't do anything though. It's been 15 years and my mom is out of money in a nursing home on Medicaid. I talked til I was blue in the face and it didn't make one bit of difference.

how did your mom get into the nursing home on Medicaid?

It’s a place that has Medicaid beds. When she entered she was private pay and I am now overseeing the transition as we spend down the assets. I recently planned the cremation. She made zero plans for her own care and I resent her for it. My sisters and I have moved her twice and she has not packed so much as a box bag or suitcase.

Got it - thought she entered directly on Medicaid. What was her condition when she entered on private pay? What was her condition for the two moves when she didn't pack? So sorry that this was your experience with her.

If she has spent her whole life and not prepared at some point you just need to say no. Do not offer your finances. You need to prepare for your retirement. If she is talking about it I would mention that you don't have the finances to fund her.

What is “overnight daycare??”

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Anonymous wrote:Just chiming in to say that my mom did this too--low level fed job that she left because she just didn't feel like working anymore. She had no money and no partner either. She told my sister that we siblings were her retirement plan. As if. In my mom's case once she stopped working she had no idea how to spend her time. Her way of getting out of the house was to go shopping and buy all kinds of crap she didn't need. When we moved her out of her house there was just so much cheap crap new with tags that she tossed in closets still in the original shopping bags. She did take a few trips but otherwise had no idea how to manage without a schedule. What about your mom OP? If she's not working she will be spending more money either for travel or self-improvement projects. You can't do anything though. It's been 15 years and my mom is out of money in a nursing home on Medicaid. I talked til I was blue in the face and it didn't make one bit of difference.

how did your mom get into the nursing home on Medicaid?

It’s a place that has Medicaid beds. When she entered she was private pay and I am now overseeing the transition as we spend down the assets. I recently planned the cremation. She made zero plans for her own care and I resent her for it. My sisters and I have moved her twice and she has not packed so much as a box bag or suitcase.

very interesting - and complicated - thread. my parents were blue collar. five kids, one with SN who lived with them for nearly whole life. dad's company changed from pension to 401K. they were fairly frugal though did enjoy an occasional meal at the bar down the street or ice cream sundae at Baskin Robbins. weren't able to buy a home till their 60s, so had a mortgage. my mom had some serious undiagnosed mental issues, which often isolated the family. my childhood sucked in many ways. that said, we all still showed up when my parents needed us in the last ten years of their lives (and had before then, but they really needed us at that time). i was able to do this as i think my parents made mistakes but they did the best that they could with what they knew and was available to them. my parents made a ton of sacrifices for us, even if my mom's mental health problems have caused lifelong challenges for me, especially in making and keeping friends.

i might not have been able to do this if i was not cognizant of their sacrifices - they enabled me to have the life i do today and will be forever grateful for them for that.

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Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is my mother too. She was a quasi-successful professional when I was a kid. Corporate law and then in house. Far from a superstar, but had a job that paid well and specific bankable expertise.

When I got to HSish age, she started her own practice — I still don’t know if she got forced out or just didn’t like the grind/had plenty of money from child support (I think the latter). She did OK and had plenty of child support and savings and owned our home, so not negative cash flow at least.

When I was just post-college, she decided to switch careers entirely and go back to school. One possible career path of new degree was related to law (how she justified it), while another wasn’t at all (what I think her real plan was). She spent a fair amount to go back for this new multi year degree, graduated with honors from a pretty good school... but was ultimately a 60 year old in school/competition for jobs with 20 and 30 somethings. She applied for some dream jobs afterwards but didn’t actually apply for the kind of job she had an actual chance of getting. Just never bothered. So essentially retired... but even worse than OP, retire after spend $100K on a totally unnecessary degree.

Anyway, I doubt OP is a troll and I think she’s right to be concerned.

Now she complains about money all the time and is burning through her savings. DH and I do pretty well, but are Feds with multiple kids, expensive child care and a large mortgage .. no way we can cover her bizarro decisions. At least she finally reached social security age. It was all so badly thought out though... and, on top of everything else, I think she’s no
w bored and bitter. Not that she offers childcare help to us.

Dp. Why do you think your mother owes you childcare? They are your kids yo raise and it doesn't sound very appealing after raising your own kids. Would you ever think of asking or asuming a man would want to raise your kids? Assuming your swap genders in your story. It says a lot about how little you value your mom's time.

I don't think she owes it to us. At all. (We don't even live in the same city, so I would definitely not be talking about anything ongoing/regular.) But I think she is totally bored and has nothing to do... and still doesn't offer to come visit (comes maybe 3-4x/year; it's a 2 hour drive and she's in perfectly good health) or help with the kids. She does have many (many!) opinions about how we should raise our kids though. Anyway, it was just an aside. As for the rest of your assumptions... my dad actually visits and watches our kids at least occasionally (despite having a job). And my in laws are great!

Np I get it. My parents live nearby and are “so bored”. And they equally are upset that their grandkids are in daycare and they don’t see them enough. I suggest they take the kids out on half days and to playgrounds or shopping and they are so offended. How dare I suggest they provide childcare??? But on my precious weekends they’re upset they can’t take the kids by themselves. Why?!? I only get weekends. They could see the kids any time

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Anonymous wrote:What is she doing for healthcare?

She’s on Medicare (Medicaid?).

Not at 58.

and if Medicaid not likely she has the amount of assets she needs for retiring

OP here. Confused, then - I thought she was enrolled in one of these programs.

If she’s on Medicaid, then she’s very poor. You could encourage her to marry her partner and get on their health insurance.

Part of why I’m concerned is because they’re not married, but my mother is convinced they’ll be together forever. (In addition to his federal job, he has full military retirement and benefits). For a woman who raised me to be financially independent, I don’t know why she now thinks the man is the plan.

If they are not married she receives none of his retirement or benefits. If something happens to him she receives nothing.

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Anonymous wrote:What is she doing for healthcare?

She’s on Medicare (Medicaid?).

Not at 58.

and if Medicaid not likely she has the amount of assets she needs for retiring

OP here. Confused, then - I thought she was enrolled in one of these programs.

She's too young for Medicare. Medicaid is part of the welfare system. If she qualifies you have reason to be concerned about her finances.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is my mother too. She was a quasi-successful professional when I was a kid. Corporate law and then in house. Far from a superstar, but had a job that paid well and specific bankable expertise.

When I got to HSish age, she started her own practice — I still don’t know if she got forced out or just didn’t like the grind/had plenty of money from child support (I think the latter). She did OK and had plenty of child support and savings and owned our home, so not negative cash flow at least.

When I was just post-college, she decided to switch careers entirely and go back to school. One possible career path of new degree was related to law (how she justified it), while another wasn’t at all (what I think her real plan was). She spent a fair amount to go back for this new multi year degree, graduated with honors from a pretty good school... but was ultimately a 60 year old in school/competition for jobs with 20 and 30 somethings. She applied for some dream jobs afterwards but didn’t actually apply for the kind of job she had an actual chance of getting. Just never bothered. So essentially retired... but even worse than OP, retire after spend $100K on a totally unnecessary degree.

Anyway, I doubt OP is a troll and I think she’s right to be concerned.

Now she complains about money all the time and is burning through her savings. DH and I do pretty well, but are Feds with multiple kids, expensive child care and a large mortgage .. no way we can cover her bizarro decisions. At least she finally reached social security age. It was all so badly thought out though... and, on top of everything else, I think she’s now bored and bitter. Not that she offers childcare help to us.

It’s posts like this that make me realize I need to be far less generous to my sons.