Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Or maybe the Silicon Valley execs are exaggerating when they say their kids have little to no screen time? Just like my friend who constantly pontificates about the evils of screen time and became very red faced when her kid started singing the theme to a popular cartoon. She quickly explained that Larla loves music, so she learned the theme song by merely listening to it. Of course little Larla then shared copious details about the show while mom tried to redirect her.

Personally, I believe adults understand how tv, ads, you tube, etc. are designed to promote consumerism. And I see the big brother aspect of our digital footprint. But I'm not really troubled by it. I accept it, and I adapt. And perhaps most importantly, I teach my kids about it.

Do you worry about how your kids will learn how to navigate screens and social media if it's presented as some sort of evil thing? Or some sort of adults only thing?

Having watched two kids from a junk food free home literally take a basket of cookies (meant for a party of 50 people) from the buffet table and run and hide to eat it, I've personally seen what happens when moms attempt to raise science projects rather than well rounded kids. The kids were double gusting them as the parents crawled behind furniture to retrieve them. It was hilarious and sad. Needless to say, those kids have developed rather bizarre relationships with food thanks to rigid parenting.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m noticing an awful lot of defensive people who think screens are mostly necessary and fine. Ask yourselves why you’re being so defensive. Ask yourselves why your kids can’t get through a meal out or a flight or one goddamn day without a screen. It’s unhealthy. And I say this as a person with a problematic relationship with her phone.

I'm one of the pps who said moderation is key and noted that my kids play games online with their cousins on the west coast.

FTR, we have never brought screens to a restaurant or on vacation (not even flights). We talk to eachother rather than rely on screens. But my kids do play video games, watch spongebob, etc. I find it interesting how the no screens/minimal screens parents seem to rely on screens as crutches for travel or waiting rooms.

I always find this funny too. Watching screens during car rides I get. Giving a kid an iPad while you are in the middle of your own doctors appointment, I get. But I don’t understand the restaurant/waiting room/plane ride thing.

I like to watch TV and movies with my kids. DH likes to play video games with them, and they play with each other. I let them watch TV on their own when I am getting stuff done around the house. But when we are at a restaurant or on a flight, I literally have nothing else I need to do but play with/read to/talk to my younger kids. My older kids typically have homework they need to get done during the flight, but if not, then they read or talk. It just seems like such an odd time to pull out a movie. Even more so if it’s the ONLY time you ever watch movies.

Do you not watch a movie on a plane when you fly alone? This seems like a weird stance. The movie in the car is what I don't get!

I don’t watch movies when I fly alone, but I don’t think it’s odd if you do unless that is literally the ONLY time you ever watch movies.
And I get movies for kids in the car because the adult has to drive the car, which is kind of a dangerous thing to do, and they need to focus on the road, not a crying three year old. But on the plane, you are just sitting there with nothing else to do. Why is this the ONLY time you will let your child watch a movie?

OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Anonymous wrote:Your kids will start begging for a phone in 4th/5th grade. The pleas will intensify. They will not abate.

Your children will need cell phones in middle school. First, that's where kids social lives are now whether you like it or not. You want your child to have friends, right? Second, if your child is doing after-school activities, they will need to be able to text you regarding pick up times, letting you know they're home or where they are, etc.

They will also need a laptop because all their readings and homework is online.

By high school, they will take their phones everywhere. My HS student just picked up her mandatory school-issued laptop yesterday, even though she already has one at home. It is for connecting to Google Classroom, a requirement. Glimpse the future, OP.

OP here. I didn't mention this in my initial post, because it doesn't seem relevant. But my partner works closely with a lot of Silicon Valley types and we have spent time out there. Do you know what most Silicon Valley execs do with their kids? Little to no screen time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/phones-children-silicon-valley.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-parents-raising-their-kids-tech-free-red-flag-2018-2

If you even get a glimpse into how this kind of technology works and what it's designed to do, you would not want your kids on it. The "future" is, in the eyes of the people inventing this technology, going to be divided into the mindless masses and the ones who control them through their creations. Until it's regulated by the government, which doesn't seem like it will be happening any time soon, the influence of these industries on our daily lives and culture is a real concern. Everyone here seems to be saying "well, everyone is doing it so you don't want to miss out." That's how people used to think about smoking when the tobacco industry had its way with government. There is a reason why social media, gaming, and YouTube controls so much of our nation's attention and time. This is big money we're talking about, and conquering the market of the next generation is part of it.

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Anonymous wrote:There was a child in my DS's 4th grade class that had to opt out of online math homework and complete printed assignments instead. He also had to draw google slide presentations on paper. He didn't attend a Dave & Busters birthday party bc he wasn't allowed to play video games.

I understand not wanting your child glued to youtube or playing fortnite 24/7, but there is a middle ground. These parents were weird. Don't be that parent.

Yes, obviously this is strange.

What is equally bad, however, is that many schools don't actually require their students to WRITE with their HANDS. We already know that typing dulls your thought process and writing is far better when done by hand. To do this to a developing child is horrible. My kids are in elementary, but there is no way they will go to a school where their notes are taken on computers, their homework is all done on computers from the start, etc. I don't want to raise an uncreative, robotic idiot.

Um. Citation?

DP. As far as my understanding of how research works goes (which isn't very far, I don't do that kind of stuff for a living), it's mixed. But you can see a bunch of citations in support of the claim here. There are peer-reviewed journals that have published things to that effect.

I definitely agree with the bolded.

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Anonymous wrote:There was a child in my DS's 4th grade class that had to opt out of online math homework and complete printed assignments instead. He also had to draw google slide presentations on paper. He didn't attend a Dave & Busters birthday party bc he wasn't allowed to play video games.

I understand not wanting your child glued to youtube or playing fortnite 24/7, but there is a middle ground. These parents were weird. Don't be that parent.

Yes, obviously this is strange.

What is equally bad, however, is that many schools don't actually require their students to WRITE with their HANDS. We already know that typing dulls your thought process and writing is far better when done by hand. To do this to a developing child is horrible. My kids are in elementary, but there is no way they will go to a school where their notes are taken on computers, their homework is all done on computers from the start, etc. I don't want to raise an uncreative, robotic idiot.

Um. Citation?

DP. As far as my understanding of how research works goes (which isn't very far, I don't do that kind of stuff for a living), it's mixed. But you can see a bunch of citations in support of the claim here. There are peer-reviewed journals that have published things to that effect.

Anonymous wrote:Our 6 and 2 year old are basically screen free, with the exception of the occasional YouTube video (usually of something real, like music performance, nature, trucks) and FaceTime with grandparents. 6 year old has seen 2-3 short (~30 min) movies, maybe 1x a month. iPad for travel with limited apps.

We would like to continue more or less minimizing screen time. I'm wondering whether parents with older kids can give me a sense of how this goes as they get older. Eventually we'd like to add in a movie night once every few weeks but not social media or unlimited YouTube viewing. Is this realistic, and how does it work with kids socially as they get older?

My kid grew up very social and loving to read.

^^ readings and homework *are* online ^^

Your kids will start begging for a phone in 4th/5th grade. The pleas will intensify. They will not abate.

Your children will need cell phones in middle school. First, that's where kids social lives are now whether you like it or not. You want your child to have friends, right? Second, if your child is doing after-school activities, they will need to be able to text you regarding pick up times, letting you know they're home or where they are, etc.

They will also need a laptop because all their readings and homework is online.

By high school, they will take their phones everywhere. My HS student just picked up her mandatory school-issued laptop yesterday, even though she already has one at home. It is for connecting to Google Classroom, a requirement. Glimpse the future, OP.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m noticing an awful lot of defensive people who think screens are mostly necessary and fine. Ask yourselves why you’re being so defensive. Ask yourselves why your kids can’t get through a meal out or a flight or one goddamn day without a screen. It’s unhealthy. And I say this as a person with a problematic relationship with her phone.

I'm one of the pps who said moderation is key and noted that my kids play games online with their cousins on the west coast.

FTR, we have never brought screens to a restaurant or on vacation (not even flights). We talk to eachother rather than rely on screens. But my kids do play video games, watch spongebob, etc. I find it interesting how the no screens/minimal screens parents seem to rely on screens as crutches for travel or waiting rooms.

I always find this funny too. Watching screens during car rides I get. Giving a kid an iPad while you are in the middle of your own doctors appointment, I get. But I don’t understand the restaurant/waiting room/plane ride thing.

I like to watch TV and movies with my kids. DH likes to play video games with them, and they play with each other. I let them watch TV on their own when I am getting stuff done around the house. But when we are at a restaurant or on a flight, I literally have nothing else I need to do but play with/read to/talk to my younger kids. My older kids typically have homework they need to get done during the flight, but if not, then they read or talk. It just seems like such an odd time to pull out a movie. Even more so if it’s the ONLY time you ever watch movies.

Do you not watch a movie on a plane when you fly alone? This seems like a weird stance. The movie in the car is what I don't get!

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Anonymous wrote:My kids are 11 and 14. The 14 yr old got a smart phone when she started high school,, and as she put it "Even the boy who wears the same sweatpants every day and has no friends because he only makes moose noises has a phone."

The reality is, kids make their plans with each other via phone. Teachers expect kids to have cell phones. So she has one, and there are a lot of rules attached.

She does not realize this, but she is VERY busy for a reason. She has minimal time to sit around with her head in a screen. The 11 yr old is still seeing almost no screens.

Wow. I hope you immediately changed the subject from her getting a from to how she can practice being a more compassionate human being. I would feel like I had failed as a parent if my children said something like that.

Thank you! This was my reaction as well. I would focus a little more on compassion PP. You and your daughter sound awful.

8th grade teacher here: those are words of a normal 14 year old. They are fairly mean peaking in 8th grade and slowly become more compassionate.

Very slowly. Yet to happen to the parent who posted this as a joke.

There’s not a thing wrong in the world with this statement. You people need to get over yourselves.

There is something terribly wrong with you if you think the daughter’s categorization of her classmate was acceptable.

You must be insufferable. I’m ok with this statement in its entirety.

Ant then there are some to whom compassion never happens. Must be the screens.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think this thread is funny because it's on DCUM? I mean a whole bunch of parents waxing poetic about the evils of screens and the internet on an internet board?

My kids are older and I'm not screen free so I probably don't have much to add to this conversation except that my kids are both in high school and both good kids. I don't regret my very relaxed screen time policy.

Of course, I have other parenting regrets or things I feel like I could have done better (for example, my kids are kind of picky eaters - I should have exposed or otherwise forced more variety) but I do think this whole thing is funny and is a bunch of parents who love the internet trying to convince their kids it's not ok.

Haha! Yes. Plus the only time I really get on dcum is when my kids are watching TV.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m noticing an awful lot of defensive people who think screens are mostly necessary and fine. Ask yourselves why you’re being so defensive. Ask yourselves why your kids can’t get through a meal out or a flight or one goddamn day without a screen. It’s unhealthy. And I say this as a person with a problematic relationship with her phone.

I'm one of the pps who said moderation is key and noted that my kids play games online with their cousins on the west coast.

FTR, we have never brought screens to a restaurant or on vacation (not even flights). We talk to eachother rather than rely on screens. But my kids do play video games, watch spongebob, etc. I find it interesting how the no screens/minimal screens parents seem to rely on screens as crutches for travel or waiting rooms.

I always find this funny too. Watching screens during car rides I get. Giving a kid an iPad while you are in the middle of your own doctors appointment, I get. But I don’t understand the restaurant/waiting room/plane ride thing.

I like to watch TV and movies with my kids. DH likes to play video games with them, and they play with each other. I let them watch TV on their own when I am getting stuff done around the house. But when we are at a restaurant or on a flight, I literally have nothing else I need to do but play with/read to/talk to my younger kids. My older kids typically have homework they need to get done during the flight, but if not, then they read or talk. It just seems like such an odd time to pull out a movie. Even more so if it’s the ONLY time you ever watch movies.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think this thread is funny because it's on DCUM? I mean a whole bunch of parents waxing poetic about the evils of screens and the internet on an internet board?

My kids are older and I'm not screen free so I probably don't have much to add to this conversation except that my kids are both in high school and both good kids. I don't regret my very relaxed screen time policy.

Of course, I have other parenting regrets or things I feel like I could have done better (for example, my kids are kind of picky eaters - I should have exposed or otherwise forced more variety) but I do think this whole thing is funny and is a bunch of parents who love the internet trying to convince their kids it's not ok.

Technology is a tool. It can be used to facilitate everything from curing cancer to child trafficking. I think what people are discussing here is the question of when it is developmentally beneficial and appropriate to give children access to particular technologies. That seems like a positive use of the internet. Gaming to the point you lose sleep when you are still growing, not so positive. Of course children who don’t get screens before 5 or 10 are going to gradually get more.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think this thread is funny because it's on DCUM? I mean a whole bunch of parents waxing poetic about the evils of screens and the internet on an internet board?

My kids are older and I'm not screen free so I probably don't have much to add to this conversation except that my kids are both in high school and both good kids. I don't regret my very relaxed screen time policy.

Of course, I have other parenting regrets or things I feel like I could have done better (for example, my kids are kind of picky eaters - I should have exposed or otherwise forced more variety) but I do think this whole thing is funny and is a bunch of parents who love the internet trying to convince their kids it's not ok.

No, it makes sense to me. There is plenty of stuff that adults do which is not appropriate for kids. There have been studies on how screentime is detrimental to babies, toddlers, adolescents... the brain is still developing during each of those periods, in basic ways. Excessive screentime can interfere with that. As for most adults on here, remember they were raised at a different time. Email started in the late 90s and smart phones even later. Social media in the 2000s. Use your common sense about the effects of allowing young children on largely unregulated platforms.