Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Marriage is still a better deal for men than it is for women.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I just don't really understand young people anymore! LOL that sounds so old. But what I mean is, if you meet someone you're wildly attracted to, the sex is great, you get along so well with them and all of their friends, they have a good job and education, you're hanging out every night anyway, why wouldn't you want to try a "serious" exclusive arrangement?

This idea that you shouldn't settle down till your late thirties is just odd to me. It's so arbitrary.

You know my twenty seven year old son was one of those guys who just didn't want a serious relationship, in fact, he just stopped dating and put all his time and energy into his personal friendships (male and female) and his professional life. I didn't understand because he is successful and attractive, made no sense to me. Then a few months ago he showed up for a dinner with the family and brought a date, it just happened. He met her during a business trip and he couldn't get her out of his head (at least that's what he told me). Thankfully she is lovely and seems to be very good to him, so we are thrilled. But I will say this about your niece, she has to stop hooking up if she wants a serious relationship. I hear my son and his friends banter about this when they are at our house, none of them want a girl who is loose and sleeps around. Seriously, I asked them about this after listening to some relationship show on NPR one morning and I found them very entertaining and insightful. They said they had their whoring around days when they were in college and aren't interested in that anymore. They find it childish and have distanced themselves from the friends they knew who sought that out weekend after weekend. If she is as lovely as you describe, she has to regroup and quite simply, play hard to get.

Anonymous wrote:It's NY. My NY friends all went through this. As soon as they traveled or moved to another city they got into LTRs and got married.

Isn't the male to female ratio in DC similar to NY in favor of more females? Is it really much different here?

Haha, I guess a college dropout like me really beat the odds when I got married in my mid 30's. But, of course, the guy I married was a college dropout, too, so there is that....

We've been together for decades now, have raised a couple of fine children and are doing quite well for ourselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she asking your advice? Doesn't seem like it.

If she wants a serious relationship she'll find guys who do. There are plenty out there, especially at her age. In all honesty I am much more concerned about my relatives who "met the one" in their teens (a cousin is getting married this week in the summer before her senior year at college to the only boyfriend she's ever had) than someone who dates casually through their twenties.

My advice? No because I obviously have none. But she was definitely venting that she'll meet a great guy who has a lot going for him and who wants to hang out in a way that I would have qualified as boyfriend/girlfriend. But he doesn't want to be "exclusive" (even if they are spending all their time together so they are exclusive - he just doesn't want to close out the possibility of meeting someone even better) and he doesn't want to mislead her that it might lead to marriage because he won't be ready to settle down for years yet.

To add to this, she says it's frustrating because this is all the great men she and her friends meet. Her friends will try to make something of this type of arrangement ("cool girl" syndrome she called it) and it almost never works.

What I'm saying is, it must be soooo frustrating because it's like the men have all the power in this scenario because they are withholding.

Well, duh, playing the “cool girl” never works. It shows you have no self esteem and will settle for scraps. Of course no man wants to commit to that, and no man is attracted to desperation.

It’s pretty disturbing that you use the term “withholding”. Nobody is entitled to something that another person doesn’t want to give. It’s no different than single guys complaining that women “withhold” sex.

She needs to be dating someone 30-40 yo who has all terminal degrees (ie post MBA).

Plus men in big cities don’t seem to think about marriage until they have a 30handle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

btw, the women who get married and stay married most frequently are the highly educated, liberal, most likely to be feminist women. Wonder why that is?

Where are you getting this stat? Most of the still married women I know are not liberal. It's not related in my mind.

Also just like now there are good and bad men, who still rape etc. there were good men. Not all were bad and beat their wives.

Marriage rates are higher among the college educated, and divorce rates are lower. The college educated tend to be more liberal. These are basic demographic facts, and if you dont know them, you shouldn't be opining on the generational impacts of feminism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

btw, the women who get married and stay married most frequently are the highly educated, liberal, most likely to be feminist women. Wonder why that is?

Where are you getting this stat? Most of the still married women I know are not liberal. It's not related in my mind.

Also just like now there are good and bad men, who still rape etc. there were good men. Not all were bad and beat their wives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she asking your advice? Doesn't seem like it.

If she wants a serious relationship she'll find guys who do. There are plenty out there, especially at her age. In all honesty I am much more concerned about my relatives who "met the one" in their teens (a cousin is getting married this week in the summer before her senior year at college to the only boyfriend she's ever had) than someone who dates casually through their twenties.

My advice? No because I obviously have none. But she was definitely venting that she'll meet a great guy who has a lot going for him and who wants to hang out in a way that I would have qualified as boyfriend/girlfriend. But he doesn't want to be "exclusive" (even if they are spending all their time together so they are exclusive - he just doesn't want to close out the possibility of meeting someone even better) and he doesn't want to mislead her that it might lead to marriage because he won't be ready to settle down for years yet.

To add to this, she says it's frustrating because this is all the great men she and her friends meet. Her friends will try to make something of this type of arrangement ("cool girl" syndrome she called it) and it almost never works.

What I'm saying is, it must be soooo frustrating because it's like the men have all the power in this scenario because they are withholding.

If she really wants a serious relationship but she's sleeping with people before a commitment and willing to keep sleeping with them when they explain they don't want a commitment, then sure they have all the power. But only because she's giving it to them. If she wants to sleep with this particular guy more than she wants to keep looking for a guy who wants the same thing she does, then she's prioritizing that guy over her end goal. That's fine, but after a frank conversation where you learn one party is not interested in commitment it's no longer their problem if you stay focused on them.

In my dating days I found guys wanted to settle down a lot faster than I did, not the opposite.

NP. This advice is totally outdated. If she didn't sleep with these guys, she wouldn't ever have sex. A good looking guy in Brooklyn (where women outnumber men anyway) knows he can get a different girl every night if he wants. No one "waits" anymore.

No, it was really good advice. If OP's SIL wastes her time and emotional energy on guys who are uninterested in a relationship (as a matter of principle, not even based on her!) then she'll never settle down. That's really f-ed up that you think women must have sex all the time then wait like a dog under the table for a man who will commit. I mean really, wtf.

If the SIL just wants to get laid -- sure, go do that. But having sex with men who don't want to be in a relationship with her is just crap advice. Nobody is saying she has to withhold sex forever -- just, don't have sex with guys who aren't into a relationship with you (unless it's just for that one night, and you're clear on what you want.)

You are not living in the IRL. Your premise that sex is transactional is so messed up. The problem(if which is not really a problem) is not the men in general or the men the SIL dates. There are many women and men her age in long term relationships. Just stop with this oh the men are all bad sh@t. The SIL is telling OP what she wants to hear. The SIL is having a great time and had no interest in settling down. When she is ready she will find some loser guy and get married. Until that happens she will continue on.

Who's saying what now? My point is that women don't have to have sex with anyone unless and until they are ready to do it. What's your point? You seem to be saying that if a woman doesn't put out on the first date, she'll never get a second date. But feel free to correct me.

Anonymous wrote:

It is o.k. for a woman to remain single. It really is

Ah, I want your approval of my life decisions.[url]

The point is, grown women are fully capable of making these decisions for themselves. You don't need anyone's go ahead to get married or remain single. It is your life, live it as you see fit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

btw, the women who get married and stay married most frequently are the highly educated, liberal, most likely to be feminist women. Wonder why that is?

It is o.k. for a woman to remain single. It really is

Ah, I want your approval of my life decisions.[url]

She should move if she wants a commitment. In LA and NYC the guys settle down much later.

It is her choice to have sex with people who aren’t committed to her. It is absolutely a choice.

It is o.k. for a woman to remain single. It really is. It is also o.k. for a grown woman to remain single and have a love life.

A woman can be a good person and not necessarily want to get involved in a LT commitment with another person. Maybe she likes having her own place, with her things and not answering to anyone else. Maybe she enjoys dating men and having fun with them w/o taking it to the next level.

I'm not going to judge them for being self aware enough to not dive into marriage when they really do not want to married to anyone. that isn't how I choose to live my own life but if another woman wants to remain single that is 110% her choice.

I firmly believe that a person can swear up and down that they don’t want a relationship ship, but if they meet someone they truly think is great, they’ll give it a chance and won’t say no. So it seems they’re just not that into her. I agree she shouldn’t be giving it up as much as it sounds like she is.

It's NY. My NY friends all went through this. As soon as they traveled or moved to another city they got into LTRs and got married.