Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 16:07     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Breech is high risk, and she ignored the signs of distress for too long. This midwife should be prosecuted.


The mother should too TBH


ITA! The mother is every bit as responsible as the midwife and absolutely should be prosecuted. I frankly don't see any distinction between the midwife's culpability and the mother's.


The mother isn't a medical professional. She hired one, or someone who she thought was a medical professional. Her culpability is certainly not the same as the "midwife's".


She had to know her baby was breech. Did she verify the credentials of the woman whose hands she put her and her child’s life into before deciding on a home breech birth? Almost no OBGYNs will even attempt a breech vaginal yet she felt confident in doing it at home. Nuts. Absolutely negligence.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 12:59     Subject: Unlicensed midwife kills baby
Anonymous wrote:Let's post some articles on how many women and babies have died because they went to a hospital instead of staying home. I guarantee the number far exceeds the number mentioned in this article. Home births are always safer. Fact. Of course there are a few outliers for whom a hospital birth is necessary, but they're truly outliers. Most home births are safe and most are much safer than being in a germy money making hospital with dozens of hands in the pot, none knowing what the other is doing. Women, especially black women, die in hospitals every day. The United States has the WORST infant mortality rate of ANY developed nation, and we also have the highest rate of hospital births.

Also, it says she wasn't licensed IN THAT STATE, not that she had no training and wasn't licensed at all anywhere.


You're an idiot
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 11:13     Subject: Unlicensed midwife kills baby
Anonymous wrote:Let's post some articles on how many women and babies have died because they went to a hospital instead of staying home. I guarantee the number far exceeds the number mentioned in this article. Home births are always safer. Fact. Of course there are a few outliers for whom a hospital birth is necessary, but they're truly outliers. Most home births are safe and most are much safer than being in a germy money making hospital with dozens of hands in the pot, none knowing what the other is doing. Women, especially black women, die in hospitals every day. The United States has the WORST infant mortality rate of ANY developed nation, and we also have the highest rate of hospital births.

Also, it says she wasn't licensed IN THAT STATE, not that she had no training and wasn't licensed at all anywhere.


Just to make it clear, this is the post that brought in the discussion of all home births. It is also one of the most breathtakingly stupid posts I've ever read on DCUM, and I've been reading DCUM for years so have a very low bar for stupid posts.

If you're arguing about the superiority of home births, this poster and the criminal midwife in Nebraska are your compatriots. Think on that (of course, these two obviously don't possess the ability to think).
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 11:13     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
The medical system is not the only reason that the birth/medical rates of anything are wrong with this country- it's that people don't participate in preventative care and/or only start going to the doctors once they're VERY sick.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:39     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I^ I am not a homebirther by any stretch, or a natural birther. Epidural all the way for me

But given that the US truly does have abysmal fetal and maternal mortality rates, like truly abysmal, the same argument could apply: anyone who would knowingly take the risk of a hospital birth given the statistics, is taking their baby's life in their hands.

Try to separate emotion. Women make choices that feel right and while it is true some babies would be better off in the hospital birth, the reverse is true as well.

Just stop the name calling and try to LISTEN.


um no ... I'm not listening to utter nonsense. This woman had a breech baby - she had NO business having a home birth.

.

Yes. And that would be all fine and good of this thread had stayed on this woman and this midwife. But it diverged into ALL homebirths.

Many responses has nothing to do with OP.

Are we not allowed to respond to other posts in the thread now?


No, that PP made the idiotic and illogical claim that "Bad things happen in the hospital, therefore, it is safer to have a homebirth."

If you can't see the logical flaws in that, I don't know what to say.


I'm that poster and that's not all what I said. You're actually making my point about logical flaws. I said that if you argue bad things happen in home births so you should go the hospital, then the reverse is true, as well, given the fetal mortality rate in hospitals.

Please don't misrepresent what people are arguing. What I argued for is nuance instead of name calling and you are misreading and distorting what I wrote. And leaving out parts of the post.

Given the cherry picking and straw man in your response, I'd be careful about calling others on their logic.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:32     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:New PP here.

I had a home birth. Low risk pregnancy. Textbook delivery. Attended by 2 midwives and an apprentice. Baby nursed within moments of birth. I was never separated from him. Beautiful healthy kid. Fully vaccinated, by the way.

It was the right choice for me and my baby. I avoided the stress of strangers traipsing through my room disturbing the privacy that is most conducive to labor. I avoided hospital staff watching the clock to see if I met the hospital's policy about how fast my labor should progress, avoided pitocin and starting the cascade of intense contractions that can't be managed without an epidural. I avoided nurses shouting at me to wait to push because the doctor wasn't ready yet. The list goes on and on. All of those things have happened to friends and acquaintances during their births.

No thanks. For a low risk pregnancy, I'll take the midwife route every time.



I had your kind of delivery, but in a hospital with a certified nurse midwife. No strangers traipsing through my room (in fact, they sent me home until I was further along in labor), no pitocin, no shouting, no nothing. Baby stayed with me.


Me too. Love my CERTIFIED nurse midwife who delivered both of my babies.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:27     Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I actually live in Nebraska and here’s my take:

1. Nebraska is the only state in the country where it is illegal for CNMs to attend home births. So mothers desiring a homebirth go underground to find lay “midwives” who do home births.



Sorry to take this off topic, but this is exactly why abortions should stay as an available safe and regulated option for women. Otherwise, they would just be forced to go “underground”.


I agree. As long as homebirth CNMs are fully licensed and there are rules in place for how to risk-out patients, and the risks are disclosed to the woman, it's a valid reproductive choice that should be permitted (even though I disagree with it).

But then I think there will still be a core of weirdos who insist on homebirth for known breech, twins, etc., and may go underground (or unassisted!) anyway. But then that's really on them.


I’m the PP from Nebraska.

I agree that home birth with a CNM with rules for risking people out should be legal.

I also think that given that this baby was breech, the mom probably would have chosen a lay midwife regardless. I don’t think home breech birth with midwives is legal even in states where home birth with midwives is legal.

Also, here in Nebraska we have a couple very nice birth centers as well as lots of good CNMs in hospitals. So she had options (though I think CNMs even in a hospital setting can’t do breeches).
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:25     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Another who had an uneventful birth followed by a massive hemorrhage a couple of hours later. I would definitely be dead in a home birth—I needed 5 bags of blood plus packing to stop the bleeding.

I know someone else this happened to (it was her 5th kid—all uneventful natural births with no medication), so it really is unpredictable and not that insanely rare.

PS I nursed all my kids until 2, so the hospital birth certainly didn’t interfere with breastfeeding.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:20     Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I actually live in Nebraska and here’s my take:

1. Nebraska is the only state in the country where it is illegal for CNMs to attend home births. So mothers desiring a homebirth go underground to find lay “midwives” who do home births.



Sorry to take this off topic, but this is exactly why abortions should stay as an available safe and regulated option for women. Otherwise, they would just be forced to go “underground”.


I agree. As long as homebirth CNMs are fully licensed and there are rules in place for how to risk-out patients, and the risks are disclosed to the woman, it's a valid reproductive choice that should be permitted (even though I disagree with it).

But then I think there will still be a core of weirdos who insist on homebirth for known breech, twins, etc., and may go underground (or unassisted!) anyway. But then that's really on them.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:18     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I^ I am not a homebirther by any stretch, or a natural birther. Epidural all the way for me

But given that the US truly does have abysmal fetal and maternal mortality rates, like truly abysmal, the same argument could apply: anyone who would knowingly take the risk of a hospital birth given the statistics, is taking their baby's life in their hands.

Try to separate emotion. Women make choices that feel right and while it is true some babies would be better off in the hospital birth, the reverse is true as well.

Just stop the name calling and try to LISTEN.


um no ... I'm not listening to utter nonsense. This woman had a breech baby - she had NO business having a home birth.

.

Yes. And that would be all fine and good of this thread had stayed on this woman and this midwife. But it diverged into ALL homebirths.

Many responses has nothing to do with OP.

Are we not allowed to respond to other posts in the thread now?


No, that PP made the idiotic and illogical claim that "Bad things happen in the hospital, therefore, it is safer to have a homebirth."

If you can't see the logical flaws in that, I don't know what to say.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:16     Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Oh also:

7. Not too long ago she had another go fund me to try to pay for herself and her entire family to travel to Peru in order for her to study traditional birthing techniques with local indigenous women. Not sure if she ever raised enough to go.


Is that on top of the GoFundMe posted up thread for surgery to fix the cysts in her ovaries? https://www.gofundme.com/v5ukgxzq

Why is it that women like this always think its the world's job to pay for them, their families, and their foibles?
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:16     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:New PP here.

I had a home birth. Low risk pregnancy. Textbook delivery. Attended by 2 midwives and an apprentice. Baby nursed within moments of birth. I was never separated from him. Beautiful healthy kid. Fully vaccinated, by the way.

It was the right choice for me and my baby. I avoided the stress of strangers traipsing through my room disturbing the privacy that is most conducive to labor. I avoided hospital staff watching the clock to see if I met the hospital's policy about how fast my labor should progress, avoided pitocin and starting the cascade of intense contractions that can't be managed without an epidural. I avoided nurses shouting at me to wait to push because the doctor wasn't ready yet. The list goes on and on. All of those things have happened to friends and acquaintances during their births.

No thanks. For a low risk pregnancy, I'll take the midwife route every time.



How do you know any of those things would have happened to you in the hospital? And it only worked for you because nothing bad happened. If nothing bad happens, a taxi driver can deliver your baby. You go to the hospital because childbirth is dangerous to the child and to the mother, so you want that expertise there in case things go wrong. Holding up bad things that COULD have happened to you in the hospital is irrational, unless you also cite to bad things that COULD HAVE happened to you at homebirth. Like you or your baby dying.

Your lack of logical skills leads me to think that you should not be opining about medical care.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:12     Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:I actually live in Nebraska and here’s my take:

1. Nebraska is the only state in the country where it is illegal for CNMs to attend home births. So mothers desiring a homebirth go underground to find lay “midwives” who do home births.



Sorry to take this off topic, but this is exactly why abortions should stay as an available safe and regulated option for women. Otherwise, they would just be forced to go “underground”.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 10:03     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:The gall of this women to pretend she is a medical professional is stunning. All while killing a baby. I hope they prosecute and win.


If solely to be a deterrent to others when falsely representing themselves as medical professionals. There's a good reason why a licensing framework exists: to protect you from dangerous charlatans.
Anonymous
Post 07/05/2019 09:07     Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
The gall of this women to pretend she is a medical professional is stunning. All while killing a baby. I hope they prosecute and win.