Anonymous wrote:Define succeed- passing an AP class with a 3? A mere pass is of almost no use to UMC applicants to elite colleges and universities, both while applying and after.

One reason the International Baccalaureate curriculum should be offered at Wilson (as a follow-on from Deal) is because that curriculum really pushes admins, teachers and kids seeking respectable pass points totals (on a 25-45 point oass scale). In an IBD program done right, Higher Level IB Diploma classes are pitched higher than AP, as much as two years higher. You can't succeed in HL IBD without serious prep. If only Wilson offered IBD.

LOL the IB program at Deal, if you know anything about IB you'd know that this is not it at all. Read up, go online, visit real IB schools throughout the world and you'll soon see what they offer at Deal is a joke, sorry but true!

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Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

+1. And if your kid is truly more outstanding than everyone else, the AP exam scores will reflect that. And those scores can be submitted to any college you apply to, as an extra piece of information, if you wish.

All rainbows and kittens with Honors for All and AP for all who waltz in. Not.

As somebody whose has taught AP humanities classes in low, medium and high-performing schools, I can assure you that your student's chances of earning a 4 or 5 are higher, much higher, if almost almost all the class members can score a 4 or 5 with work, versus, a fraction of the class. Most kids need high-performing classes and peers to push them all the way from around 3rd grade to 12th. Only a minority, maybe 15-20% can and will push themselves without outside prep where a peer group isn't pushing and parents aren't paying for extra prep. Buyer beware.

Well said.

+1000 and could not agree more.

In the higher grades, peer group is a huge factor. If you have all advanced students in a class who are motivated, it motivates and pushes the other students to do better. In addition, the teacher can easily modify the course to be even more challenging. That’s for AP classes, honors classes, etc..

In contrast, let’s throw together a class where students are 3-4 academic levels apart. Ask any teacher if they are able to effectively differentiate with that wide of a spread. They can’t and the higher performing students will either be bored or on chrome books a large portion of the day. They will not be challenged to their full potential. For we know where DCPS goals lie and where it places the pressure on teachers and that is to close the achievement gap with focus on the lower performing kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

+1. And if your kid is truly more outstanding than everyone else, the AP exam scores will reflect that. And those scores can be submitted to any college you apply to, as an extra piece of information, if you wish.

So Wilson should cut all advanced classes?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good God. How did this thread get so off the rails? Hardy. Focus people.

These threads go "off the rails" because DCPS doesn't emphasize challenging advance learners. Just look at the Deal to Wilson feed with no IB studies for HS. Dumb.

Hardy isn't a stand-alone program.

As I implied above, this is f***ing amazing. A few years ago it WAS the Wilson feed that was probably the biggest selling point for Hardy "that inner city school". Hardy as a stand-alone program was worth far less than Hardy as a Wilson feeder. Now it appears to be the reverse? Wow.

Things certainly won't change if Hardy and Deal parents don't organize and make their voices heard on the subject of Honors for All messing up Wilson.

Maybe it's all hopeless without a new mayor but it's definitely hopeless without push back.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

+1. And if your kid is truly more outstanding than everyone else, the AP exam scores will reflect that. And those scores can be submitted to any college you apply to, as an extra piece of information, if you wish.

All rainbows and kittens with Honors for All and AP for all who waltz in. Not.

As somebody whose has taught AP humanities classes in low, medium and high-performing schools, I can assure you that your student's chances of earning a 4 or 5 are higher, much higher, if almost almost all the class members can score a 4 or 5 with work, versus, a fraction of the class. Most kids need high-performing classes and peers to push them all the way from around 3rd grade to 12th. Only a minority, maybe 15-20% can and will push themselves without outside prep where a peer group isn't pushing and parents aren't paying for extra prep. Buyer beware.

Well said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good God. How did this thread get so off the rails? Hardy. Focus people.

These threads go "off the rails" because DCPS doesn't emphasize challenging advance learners. Just look at the Deal to Wilson feed with no IB studies for HS. Dumb.

Hardy isn't a stand-alone program.

As I implied above, this is f***ing amazing. A few years ago it WAS the Wilson feed that was probably the biggest selling point for Hardy "that inner city school". Hardy as a stand-alone program was worth far less than Hardy as a Wilson feeder. Now it appears to be the reverse? Wow.

Both school have experienced changes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good God. How did this thread get so off the rails? Hardy. Focus people.

These threads go "off the rails" because DCPS doesn't emphasize challenging advance learners. Just look at the Deal to Wilson feed with no IB studies for HS. Dumb.

Hardy isn't a stand-alone program.

As I implied above, this is f***ing amazing. A few years ago it WAS the Wilson feed that was probably the biggest selling point for Hardy "that inner city school". Hardy as a stand-alone program was worth far less than Hardy as a Wilson feeder. Now it appears to be the reverse? Wow.

Anonymous wrote:Good God. How did this thread get so off the rails? Hardy. Focus people.

These threads go "off the rails" because DCPS doesn't emphasize challenging advance learners. Just look at the Deal to Wilson feed with no IB studies for HS. Dumb.

Hardy isn't a stand-alone program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

+1. And if your kid is truly more outstanding than everyone else, the AP exam scores will reflect that. And those scores can be submitted to any college you apply to, as an extra piece of information, if you wish.

All rainbows and kittens with Honors for All and AP for all who waltz in. Not.

As somebody whose has taught AP humanities classes in low, medium and high-performing schools, I can assure you that your student's chances of earning a 4 or 5 are higher, much higher, if almost almost all the class members can score a 4 or 5 with work, versus, a fraction of the class. Most kids need high-performing classes and peers to push them all the way from around 3rd grade to 12th. Only a minority, maybe 15-20% can and will push themselves without outside prep where a peer group isn't pushing and parents aren't paying for extra prep. Buyer beware.

Good God. How did this thread get so off the rails? Hardy. Focus people.

Define succeed- passing an AP class with a 3? A mere pass is of almost no use to UMC applicants to elite colleges and universities, both while applying and after.

One reason the International Baccalaureate curriculum should be offered at Wilson (as a follow-on from Deal) is because that curriculum really pushes admins, teachers and kids seeking respectable pass points totals (on a 25-45 point oass scale). In an IBD program done right, Higher Level IB Diploma classes are pitched higher than AP, as much as two years higher. You can't succeed in HL IBD without serious prep. If only Wilson offered IBD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

+1. And if your kid is truly more outstanding than everyone else, the AP exam scores will reflect that. And those scores can be submitted to any college you apply to, as an extra piece of information, if you wish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Why? Because it turns out that your kids and mine - the usual suspects that are offered and take AP and Honors classes - aren't all that special. There is in fact a much broader group of kids that can take these same classes and succeed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

Do you think Wilson should cut advanced classes?

Wilson isn't cutting advanced classes. They offer 28 AP classes, and students can also dual-enroll at a local university. The Wilson-part of this thread is full of hysterical people. I think it also needs a sock-puppeting check.

But if, according to you, it’s OK to have everyone in the same classes (to “mainstream” the stronger students), then why bother having APs or any advanced offerings?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

So does every other over-privileged parent (usually white yuppies from the 80's) with too much time on their hands, across every high-income district in the United States. Don't blame Wilson for this problem, it's skewed away from the mirror you should be facing.

It’s not true at truly solid schools. Sure, some wacky parents will push to excess, but people seek rigorous schools because they shouldn’t have to do this.

You are breathlessly naive if you think that parents at Walls, well-regarded suburban publics, and the most exclusive and expensive private schools are not doing this.

Yes. Not everyone spends or invests in all of the above. But many at Wilson, Walls, Latin, BCC, Whitman pay for SAT/ACT prep classes; counselors to help formulate lists and support essays; pay for their student to do sports-year round/travel team to make them recruitable; pay for music or arts lessons/camps/summer intensives....

Not to mention tutors for academic subjects before the college madness starts.