I’m mostly in favor of the pip, but this thread is actually making making sympathetic to this group.

Anonymous wrote:You all need to take a chill pill. I looked up Lisa Littman and she is a well respected professor and MD at Brown U. Just because her study challenges your ideas doesn't mean she is bigot or that her research is bigoted. There is nothing fake about her or Brown University.

Yup. Nor Johns Hopkins, which doesn't do gender reassignment surgeries anymore.

Please, don't fall for this diversion about "what is hate speech" and "you call everyone who disagrees with you a bigot." This is gaslighting. It's a deception, and it's not what's important.

Again: nobody is calling people who dissent with APS' proposed policy guilty of hate speech on the basis of their dissent.

The problem here is the only vocal opposition right now is a group called the Arlington Parent Coalition, that falsely represents themselves, that has engaged in a local media tour, that uses research from non-academic, heavily biased sources to back up their position, and conducts their own surveys of unknown methodology and presents them as evidence about how "most students in APS feel."

This thread is about Arlington Parent Coalition.

Once again:

1) The Arlington Parent Coalition lists on their web site "research" from right-wing political groups and think tanks, and repeatedly references the American College of Pediatricians which has been identified as a hate group, and widely debunked as a fringe organization designed to confuse people with the real American Academy of Pediatrics
2) The APC identifies itself as a "diverse group", e.g. representative of a wide range of parents, yet presents no evidence of membership other than the single individual frequently quoted in articles
3) The APC conducted a "survey" and presents it as evidence of the student body feeling a certain way, yet doesn't provide methodology for the survey, and 90 students is not statistically significant for a population of 28,000 anyway

Anyone who wants to speak up for themselves, and back up their position with legitimate research, or just opinion, great! Let's have a dialog.

But there's no reasonable dialog to be had with people who defend their position with research from illegitimate sources, who make up surveys, who misrepresent themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Not the PP, but I think a simple google search will show you the arguments that support there is no such thing as hate speech. Most results you will find are the prattling of conservative talking heads... There is however some validity to the argument. Hate speech is a meaningless label, created out of the same identity politics machine that force all of us, on both sides of any argument, on to anonymous forums.

There are amazingly good/kind people on both sides of this disagreement. I expect most people on this forum and especially the one I'm about to write about would fall in to this category.

Personally I don't think it is ok to encourage a child to normalize behavior considered mental illness. I discourage my children from accepting the behavior we see from the majority of adults in our very left leaning community. Example, a lady who displayed a small stuffed animal at the SB meeting this week and was excited to share that she had normalized all concepts of gender inconformity so that her pre-schooler had labeled the animal some lengthy title made of nontraditional gender labels. I consider that a form of child abuse, and it makes me very sad.

That said, these are only my opinions on the issue at hand. I'm sure the lady I'm writing about is a loving and kind mother, and would never do anything she thought would hurt her child. The difference is, I think it does hurt her child, and the statistics surrounding child suicide in progressive countries show this clearly.

I'm certain there has been gender dysphoria for as long as people have walked the earth, this isn't a new phenomenon. It is new that adults confuse their children with messages that encourage behavior that has no basis in reality.

I'm not sure where you go from there... Will keep reading and learning.

THAT is a whole lot of hate speech. Thanks for demonstrating.

DP - You are the one who needs to learn what "hate speech" really is. Politely expressing one's personal opinions and beliefs, without profanity and name-calling or rabble-rousing, is not hate speech. The PP's post is actually a demonstration of civil discourse. You simply demonstrate a self-righteous, intolerant, closed-minded attitude. how ironic.

You think hate speech is just profanity and name calling? SMH.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
“Hate speech is a statement intended to demean and brutalize another”

“Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of protected attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.”

PP is claiming that transgender people are all “mentally ill”. Considers parent support of trans kids “child abuse”. And “actively discourages acceptance” of people different than herself. How can you get any more demeaning?!

No profanity but certainly hate speech. Disgusting that the PP has children.

Anonymous wrote:Is it time to ask Jeff about sock puppeting on this thread?

Yes

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I don’t post on aem or speak at a school board meeting. You are attacking people. No one can speak in any transparent manner without being attacked. Heaven forbid one word is taken the wrong way and the attack’s begin. Anyone who questions or disagrees you say they are a bigot and part of this pediatricians what ever group. I don’t know who they are other than your characterization of them as fake. You sound like trump. That is not a compliment.

I consider myself an educated, successful, non religious, politically centrist person who is generally tolerant of what ever people want to do in their own bedroom.

Stop calling people bigots. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to treat everyone else with respect to.

You are tolerant but you want desperately to police children on their gender identity. Got it.

And the poster who said that civil discourse is hate speech is the problem. Hate speech=I disagree with you.

Boring thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Not the PP, but I think a simple google search will show you the arguments that support there is no such thing as hate speech. Most results you will find are the prattling of conservative talking heads... There is however some validity to the argument. Hate speech is a meaningless label, created out of the same identity politics machine that force all of us, on both sides of any argument, on to anonymous forums.

There are amazingly good/kind people on both sides of this disagreement. I expect most people on this forum and especially the one I'm about to write about would fall in to this category.

Personally I don't think it is ok to encourage a child to normalize behavior considered mental illness. I discourage my children from accepting the behavior we see from the majority of adults in our very left leaning community. Example, a lady who displayed a small stuffed animal at the SB meeting this week and was excited to share that she had normalized all concepts of gender inconformity so that her pre-schooler had labeled the animal some lengthy title made of nontraditional gender labels. I consider that a form of child abuse, and it makes me very sad.

That said, these are only my opinions on the issue at hand. I'm sure the lady I'm writing about is a loving and kind mother, and would never do anything she thought would hurt her child. The difference is, I think it does hurt her child, and the statistics surrounding child suicide in progressive countries show this clearly.

I'm certain there has been gender dysphoria for as long as people have walked the earth, this isn't a new phenomenon. It is new that adults confuse their children with messages that encourage behavior that has no basis in reality.

I'm not sure where you go from there... Will keep reading and learning.

THAT is a whole lot of hate speech. Thanks for demonstrating.

DP - You are the one who needs to learn what "hate speech" really is. Politely expressing one's personal opinions and beliefs, without profanity and name-calling or rabble-rousing, is not hate speech. The PP's post is actually a demonstration of civil discourse. You simply demonstrate a self-righteous, intolerant, closed-minded attitude. how ironic.

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I don’t post on aem or speak at a school board meeting. You are attacking people. No one can speak in any transparent manner without being attacked. Heaven forbid one word is taken the wrong way and the attack’s begin. Anyone who questions or disagrees you say they are a bigot and part of this pediatricians what ever group. I don’t know who they are other than your characterization of them as fake. You sound like trump. That is not a compliment.

I consider myself an educated, successful, non religious, politically centrist person who is generally tolerant of what ever people want to do in their own bedroom.

Stop calling people bigots. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to treat everyone else with respect to.

Here's the problem. You think it's fine to say whatever you want and you should be able to do so without being challenged.

But many, perhaps most, of your peers actually don't appreciate being bullshitted. We don't like it when someone takes the rantings of a hate group and presents them as fact.

Instead of complaining about a group that "you don't know who they are", why don't you get off your duff and google them, instead of acting like DCUM is the only way you can get information? If you don't believe me, then instead of whining about being "attacked" then use your brain.

The whole point of this thread isn't that I personally characterize the "whatever group" (American College of Pediatrics) as fake. The Southern Poverty Law Center has listed them as a hate group. Snopes has a page about them because people attribute the ACP's statements about transgender children to the real American Academy of Pediatrics: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/americas-pediatricians-gender-kids/ The internet is literally full of information about this group, explaining that they are NOT the respected group, and they are NOT a legitimate professional organization.

But sure, it's just me characterizing them as fake.

For someone who thinks they're "educated" you sure seem to have a hard time with critical thinking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Not the PP, but I think a simple google search will show you the arguments that support there is no such thing as hate speech. Most results you will find are the prattling of conservative talking heads... There is however some validity to the argument. Hate speech is a meaningless label, created out of the same identity politics machine that force all of us, on both sides of any argument, on to anonymous forums.

There are amazingly good/kind people on both sides of this disagreement. I expect most people on this forum and especially the one I'm about to write about would fall in to this category.

Personally I don't think it is ok to encourage a child to normalize behavior considered mental illness. I discourage my children from accepting the behavior we see from the majority of adults in our very left leaning community. Example, a lady who displayed a small stuffed animal at the SB meeting this week and was excited to share that she had normalized all concepts of gender inconformity so that her pre-schooler had labeled the animal some lengthy title made of nontraditional gender labels. I consider that a form of child abuse, and it makes me very sad.

That said, these are only my opinions on the issue at hand. I'm sure the lady I'm writing about is a loving and kind mother, and would never do anything she thought would hurt her child. The difference is, I think it does hurt her child, and the statistics surrounding child suicide in progressive countries show this clearly.

I'm certain there has been gender dysphoria for as long as people have walked the earth, this isn't a new phenomenon. It is new that adults confuse their children with messages that encourage behavior that has no basis in reality.

I'm not sure where you go from there... Will keep reading and learning.

THAT is a whole lot of hate speech. Thanks for demonstrating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

Not the PP, but I think a simple google search will show you the arguments that support there is no such thing as hate speech. Most results you will find are the prattling of conservative talking heads... There is however some validity to the argument. Hate speech is a meaningless label, created out of the same identity politics machine that force all of us, on both sides of any argument, on to anonymous forums.

There are amazingly good/kind people on both sides of this disagreement. I expect most people on this forum and especially the one I'm about to write about would fall in to this category.

Personally I don't think it is ok to encourage a child to normalize behavior considered mental illness. I discourage my children from accepting the behavior we see from the majority of adults in our very left leaning community. Example, a lady who displayed a small stuffed animal at the SB meeting this week and was excited to share that she had normalized all concepts of gender inconformity so that her pre-schooler had labeled the animal some lengthy title made of nontraditional gender labels. I consider that a form of child abuse, and it makes me very sad.

That said, these are only my opinions on the issue at hand. I'm sure the lady I'm writing about is a loving and kind mother, and would never do anything she thought would hurt her child. The difference is, I think it does hurt her child, and the statistics surrounding child suicide in progressive countries show this clearly.

I'm certain there has been gender dysphoria for as long as people have walked the earth, this isn't a new phenomenon. It is new that adults confuse their children with messages that encourage behavior that has no basis in reality.

I'm not sure where you go from there... Will keep reading and learning.

Anonymous wrote:And this is why I don’t post on aem or speak at a school board meeting. You are attacking people. No one can speak in any transparent manner without being attacked. Heaven forbid one word is taken the wrong way and the attack’s begin. Anyone who questions or disagrees you say they are a bigot and part of this pediatricians what ever group. I don’t know who they are other than your characterization of them as fake. You sound like trump. That is not a compliment.

I consider myself an educated, successful, non religious, politically centrist person who is generally tolerant of what ever people want to do in their own bedroom.

Stop calling people bigots. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to treat everyone else with respect to.

What should we call the bigots if you don’t like that word? Republicans?

And this is why I don’t post on aem or speak at a school board meeting. You are attacking people. No one can speak in any transparent manner without being attacked. Heaven forbid one word is taken the wrong way and the attack’s begin. Anyone who questions or disagrees you say they are a bigot and part of this pediatricians what ever group. I don’t know who they are other than your characterization of them as fake. You sound like trump. That is not a compliment.

I consider myself an educated, successful, non religious, politically centrist person who is generally tolerant of what ever people want to do in their own bedroom.

Stop calling people bigots. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to treat everyone else with respect to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So who do you find to be a “legitimate” voice expressing concerns about transgender policies in schools? Is there anyone speaking out who is acceptable to you? It seems to me that you will label any opposition as phobic or hateful.

I am getting tired of repeating myself.

1) The Arlington Parent Coalition lists on their web site "research" from right-wing political groups and think tanks, and repeatedly references the American College of Pediatricians which has been identified as a hate group, and widely debunked as a fringe organization designed to confuse people with the real American Academy of Pediatrics
2) The APC identifies itself as a "diverse group", e.g. representative of a wide range of parents, yet presents no evidence of membership other than the single individual frequently quoted in articles
3) The APC conducted a "survey" and presents it as evidence of the student body feeling a certain way, yet doesn't provide methodology for the survey, and 90 students is not statistically significant for a population of 28,000 anyway

A "legitimate" voice is

1) A person who speaks for themself, instead of pretending to speak for a lot of people
2) A person who doesn't use fake research to back up their position
3) A person who doesn't conduct fake surveys to back up their position

How hard is this to understand?

well said

Is it time to ask Jeff about sock puppeting on this thread?