Anonymous
Post 05/27/2019 08:51     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.


Texas has bad income, wealth and opportunity inequality, but it has some of the best high schools in the country. A regular public high school with 20
National Merit semifinalists in a class of 550 is a strong high school.


Aren't National Merit Scholarships given out per state?
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 21:30     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one is owed Harvard. Do you understand that you are competing globally for 2000 or so spots? Tell me when you looked at the acceptance rate did you think of another outcome ? I’m trying to understand why you are so surprisEd.


It’s not 2000 spots. More like 1650 or so.


It is neither. If you are male/female, there are only plus/minis 1000 spots as most colleges strive for 50/50 male/female

If you are Asian M/F, then only around 23% of those spots = 230

If you are an American Asian kid, then you need to deduct the % that goes to the oversea Chinese

If you are an Asian kid who does not play a musical instrument that they need in their orchestra, you need to deduct another 10%-15% depending on how many members of the orchestra are graduating

If you are an Asian kid and is not first gen, then deduct another 10% of spots

And so on

If you then get a spot on Harvard, you should really try to refrain from buying a lottery ticket for the rest of your life as the probability of winning 2 lotteries in your lifetime is pretty slim!
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 21:11     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not sure why people think that the post was racist. I am giving objective detailed data on the students accepted because otherwise stats mean very little. Also, these kids are not "academic drones". Many are accomplished kids with good EC's and participate in many real community service projects.


I am just saying that none of that seems to have helped them get into a top 20 school. Use the information as you will.

And btw, many universities like Brown have actually said they are trying to recruit more kids from Texas. I guess they are looking for a "different profile" than these kids. v



Of course. You don't think anyone really wants your typical UMC white kids, do you? This is known.


there is another thread on this board about 2019 Whitman admits - 5% of the class is going to Ivy and even higher to top 25 schools. Whitman is 67% white and less than 10% black or Hispanic. UMC white kids are getting in.

Now if you argue they're athletes and legacies, then you should complain about that.

If you don't believe they are athletes and legacies, then UMC whites should admit that they problem is with their kid not the system (and little bit themselves since they're not legacies).

Nothing more irritating that UMC white people complaining they suffer from discrimination. Get a life.



I think an important consideration here is that the University of Texas is much stronger than the University of Maryland.

Great Maryland kids probably work harder on applying to private schools, and Harvard knows it will get most of the Maryland kids it admits, even if the parents have to take out huge loans or loot their IRAs.

Harvard probably knows it will have to fight harder to get Virginia kids to come, and a lot harder to reel in Texas kids.



Really? Because every ranking site would say otherwise. Show one list where UT is higher than UMD.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 21:10     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:^^ Plus who is unimpressed by Whitman? BTW, how do I find college acceptance lists for other MCPS HSs?


Why don't you read the other thread -- see for yourself.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 19:22     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one is owed Harvard. Do you understand that you are competing globally for 2000 or so spots? Tell me when you looked at the acceptance rate did you think of another outcome ? I’m trying to understand why you are so surprisEd.


It’s not 2000 spots. More like 1650 or so.


They accepted 1940 this year. So 2000 is more accurate. Yield is not 100%.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 18:56     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:No one is owed Harvard. Do you understand that you are competing globally for 2000 or so spots? Tell me when you looked at the acceptance rate did you think of another outcome ? I’m trying to understand why you are so surprisEd.


It’s not 2000 spots. More like 1650 or so.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 18:39     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.


Texas has bad income, wealth and opportunity inequality, but it has some of the best high schools in the country. A regular public high school with 20
National Merit semifinalists in a class of 550 is a strong high school.


The urban institute compares states by NAEP scores that are normalized by student demographics. By that measure Florida has the best performing high schools in the US followed by Texas. Don't mistake predominately white and Asian schools with educated parents for "good" schools. Schools with those demographics perform well even with poor teaching.

http://apps.urban.org/features/naep/
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 18:32     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.

Texas' schools are second best in the country when you compare apples to apples.
Anonymous
Post 05/26/2019 18:23     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Meaning, children of the true elite. Not the UMC or unknown rich but children of parents who have big names in tech, finance, celebrity, and politics.



The average HHI of Harvard students is 168k......hardly that of your stupid fantasy world portrayal.


I went to a T30ish school (Wash. U.) that supposedly has richer kids than Harvard.

I think that Harvard and Princeton have to be gaming the HHI counting system. I just don’t believe the students at Wash. U. come from families with a higher average HHI than the students at Harvard, unless that’s because many Harvard and Princeton students are the children of parents with trust funds set up to minimize taxable income, and the Wash. U. students are the children of high salaried worker bees.

And I know that Harvard claims to be need blind, but wanting students to have national awards is just a way to select for rich students without admitting you’re doing that. Most of the time, having national awards in anything other than basketball means you’re from a high-income household.


Yes. When the facts don’t support your baseless belief just say they’re gaming the facts. That way you can continue living in your bubble.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 14:29     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.


Texas has bad income, wealth and opportunity inequality, but it has some of the best high schools in the country. A regular public high school with 20
National Merit semifinalists in a class of 550 is a strong high school.


NMS cutoff scores are set on a state-by-state basis, so how one Texas high school does is relevant only to other Texas schools. But now I’m curious to know what school OP is talking about, because looking at the latest list, it looks like the only school with exactly 20 is a private school.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 14:02     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not sure why people think that the post was racist. I am giving objective detailed data on the students accepted because otherwise stats mean very little. Also, these kids are not "academic drones". Many are accomplished kids with good EC's and participate in many real community service projects.


I am just saying that none of that seems to have helped them get into a top 20 school. Use the information as you will.

And btw, many universities like Brown have actually said they are trying to recruit more kids from Texas. I guess they are looking for a "different profile" than these kids. v



Of course. You don't think anyone really wants your typical UMC white kids, do you? This is known.


there is another thread on this board about 2019 Whitman admits - 5% of the class is going to Ivy and even higher to top 25 schools. Whitman is 67% white and less than 10% black or Hispanic. UMC white kids are getting in.

Now if you argue they're athletes and legacies, then you should complain about that.

If you don't believe they are athletes and legacies, then UMC whites should admit that they problem is with their kid not the system (and little bit themselves since they're not legacies).

Nothing more irritating that UMC white people complaining they suffer from discrimination. Get a life.



I think an important consideration here is that the University of Texas is much stronger than the University of Maryland.

Great Maryland kids probably work harder on applying to private schools, and Harvard knows it will get most of the Maryland kids it admits, even if the parents have to take out huge loans or loot their IRAs.

Harvard probably knows it will have to fight harder to get Virginia kids to come, and a lot harder to reel in Texas kids.

Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 13:53     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.


Texas has bad income, wealth and opportunity inequality, but it has some of the best high schools in the country. A regular public high school with 20
National Merit semifinalists in a class of 550 is a strong high school.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 13:47     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Meaning, children of the true elite. Not the UMC or unknown rich but children of parents who have big names in tech, finance, celebrity, and politics.



The average HHI of Harvard students is 168k......hardly that of your stupid fantasy world portrayal.


I went to a T30ish school (Wash. U.) that supposedly has richer kids than Harvard.

I think that Harvard and Princeton have to be gaming the HHI counting system. I just don’t believe the students at Wash. U. come from families with a higher average HHI than the students at Harvard, unless that’s because many Harvard and Princeton students are the children of parents with trust funds set up to minimize taxable income, and the Wash. U. students are the children of high salaried worker bees.

And I know that Harvard claims to be need blind, but wanting students to have national awards is just a way to select for rich students without admitting you’re doing that. Most of the time, having national awards in anything other than basketball means you’re from a high-income household.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 13:32     Subject: Re:This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Texas consistently ranks in the bottom half of states on education, so I wouldn’t say that a school that’s in the top quarter of a bunch of mediocre schools is going to be a stronger contender for top college/university admissions.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2019 13:31     Subject: This should tell you how elite college admissions really are
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I stopped reading after the OP mentioned the race and ethnicity of the students going to top 10 colleges.



Why? That’s probably the most pertinent fact in college admissions these days


You know this is not true.


DP. You’re kidding yourself if you think this isn’t true. The amount of effort and money the elites pour into scouring the country for black and Latino applicants that are even remotely qualified is staggering. And that’s just the beginning because they pour an equal amount of resources into ensuring they graduate at a rate that is somewhat comparable to the median. The entire admissions and retention effort is social justice kabuki and nobody has any idea if it makes a difference at all.


Racist much?


Such an idiotic comment.....those are facts not opinions. And yes, it’s the exact same thing for athletes.


But I’ll add that the handicap for athletes, while significant, isn’t close to that for URMs.......and that’s before this adversity nonsense factors in.


What facts do you have?

"amount of effort and money the elites pour into scouring the country for black and Latino applicants that are even remotely qualified is staggering" - how much?

"they pour an equal amount of resources into ensuring they graduate at a rate that is somewhat comparable to the median." - how much?

"the handicap for athletes, while significant, isn’t close to that for URMs." - how much?

just because you assert conclusions as facts, doesn't make them facts. you have no support.

Some actual facts:

Recruited athletes are admitted to Harvard roughly 80 percent of the time.

Recruited athletes with an academic rating of 4 on Harvard's 1-6 scale are admitted at a rate of 70.46%. Non athletes with the same rating are admitted at .076 percent. More than a thousand times less.

Ivy League athletes are 65% white

50 to 60 students in each admissions cycle are admitted on Harvard's z-list.

Harvard admitted that z-list admits have pre-college academic records more comparable to rejected students are perform far worse than other admitted students.

Z list admits for Harvard classes 2014-2019 are 70% white.

Are you a racist? who knows? but pulling out one hook and presenting it as the 'most pertinent' factor when you have others that are, at the very least, equally pertinent, but are markedly in favor of white applicants, is well, telling.

My opinion: I'd much rather be a white athlete, white rich kid or white legacy than a URM when applying.

BTW - the 1995-2013 admit rates by race at Harvard are

13.2% African American
11.1% white
10.6% Hispanic
8.1% Asian

Who's really getting screwed here?


Hey genius, you do realize that Harvard only recruits athletes that have a high probability of gaining admission. The coach knows all of the candidates credentials before supporting their candidacy and will direct them to apply ED so obviously they’re going to have a high admit rate.


Well, just to be clear Harvard doesn't do ED. that aside, I think you're missing the point. All you're doing is explaining why the 80% figure I cited is what it is. To be clear, coaches aren't always recruiting athletes who are otherwise qualified. Harvard, as the stats show, recruits athletes who would not get in otherwise. The 70.46% acceptance rate for marginally qualified academics compared to 0.076% should have told you that.

the issue being argued is whether race is the most pertinent factor. I think the evidence is that it is not.

Think of it this way. If I gave you applicant X and said I would give you $100K if you told me whether they had been accepted at Harvard this year. You could buy the answers to three yes or no questions for $25K each to improve your chances.

What would be the first question you asked? I think it would be whether they are a recruited athlete. If the answer is 'yes', then you have an 80% chance of being right. The next question should be whether they are a legacy. If the answer is 'yes', then you have a 33% chance of being right. Only then might you ask if they were black. but even if the answer is yes, you only have a 12.6% chance of being right. The single most pertinent factor in college admissions is whether the applicant is a recruited athlete. Then it's whether they are a legacy. Neither of which, I would add, has any relationship to being the 'best or brightest'. Ivy League athletes, as a general rule, are not the best athletes in their sport.

Bitter, white nationalists rail against URMs as the paramount example of all that is unfair in college admissions. They should be upset with recruited athletes and legacies, both of which are substantially white. (well, they should really be upset with the Z list kids who comprise 2.5% of admitted students and are largely dumb as rocks). The fact that you are not upset with these categories (or less upset) raises the legitimate question of why you are more upset with URMs. Which leads, invariably, to the racism question.