Update from OP because I value every one's input and my son read it all, too.

In the end, per couselor/teacher recommendation, the assistant principal did not approve withdrawal from A2 because he was not failing and final grade (75) will remain on transcript. He also will not allow a better grade next year to replace this year's grade. DS was ok with the decision and decided that he would repeat A2 next year, hopefully get a better grade which will be reported on transcript as an additional A2 grade (not an average of two). He decided to take the A2 regents last week and try again in August if he failed it.

Fast forward...he took 5 regents exams last week. Geometry and A2 were on the same day, he was surprisingly chill. He's been checking his results. Found out yesterday that he passed geometry regents, hard test, good score (yay). An hour ago, I hear him laughing/crying and couldn't make out which it was. He passed the A2 regents with a decent score (not stellar).

Now what does he do? Carry on with pre-calc? His counselor emailed him and told him that he worked incredibly hard in double math and congrats but offered no guidance as to next year's class. She's leaving it up to him. He's in summer hype mode and told me, I dunno, not deciding today. For those that didn't read the thread, he has handled it all. I did not pressure teacher, counselor and did not contact assistant principal about his decision. There is no grade inflation in his NY public. Glaringly obvious by his final grade! I'm probably the only parent who is so proud of a kid who doubled up in math, stuck it out and worked so hard, ultimately passed 2 pretty hard regents exams with a final A2 GPA of 75.

Happy summer all!

You know, I just finished reading the posts in this thread. The problem with remIning anonymous is that there is a lack of emotional boundaries. I highly doubt that some of these women on here would be so blunt and condescending if they were making these comments in person. Have some class

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe counselors are telling kids to retake classes they got a C in. What the heck? I can’t believe they allowed two maths too. I would have a lot of choice words with the principal/dean for this.

High school is to learn. Not to make some fake college resume that looks perfect.

Many kids get one or even a few C’s. It shows more character. Some things you had to work for a bit harder than others. Not everyone gets A’s. Taking two years of a math you didn’t fail, is a scam. Schools should be embarrassed. This isn’t his true transcript.

New poster here and I think the issue is the sequencing and level. If you get a C in regular World History in 10th grade, it won’t make an impact on taking regular US History in 11th grade. But the school might say you can’t take AP US History in 11th unless you had a B or better in history the prior year. Obviously you wouldn’t retake World History just to take AP US the next year. The science/math link is different. OP’s son wants to take an AP Physics class that builds heavily on Algebra II and will also be taking a Pre-Calc that assumes Algebra II skills are solid. He wants to major in a field where a strong Algebra foundation is typical.

OP, I feel for the situation. My child didn’t place into geometry Freshman year despite taking Algebra I in middle school and having an A. My DS had to get a high A in 9th grade Algebra I and take a placement test to get invited to take Geometry over the summer. It was a harder path versus making sure he was prepared for the incoming student placement test but in the end it may just work out. I know the math foundation is strong and DS was more motivated and confident in math.

So OP, I’d advise that you have your son find out what is the pathway to getting into a CS program given the math/science pathway he is on with withdrawing from Algebra II. I’m sure there is one, but it may take some digging to find it. And have him keep up with the practical programming/computer experience. I always tell my kids the path may be harder but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. There is a great story on College Confidential from someone that didn’t get into UMCP on his first try and not on appeal either. The person had to make a decision to go elsewhere without the field of study he wanted or community college and try to transfer. I think a year later he had amazing grades, activities etc at Community college, knew what he needed to do, did it, and was accepted as a transfer into UMCP.

Anonymous wrote:

80% in this grade inflation era is basically failing but the teachers are being nice to keep parents off their backs. I guarantee that "B" is pumped way up with meaningless homework and other busy work. We just went through this with our youngest. DD had barely a "B" overall but was essentially failing every test, i.e. real measurement of material.

Not the OP, but my DS has not had homework count towards his grade in any math class in high school. You can get a little credit for it if you do it, but not much, and there is no penalty for not doing it. DS has basically not done any math homework over the last four years. I think they do make the students turn in a review packet right before a test. His grades have been based on tests and quizzes and there are no "retakes." I do think he would have benefited from required homework, but his grade is not inflated in any way.

I'm not sure what school your kids go to, but it is very possible to get a grade lower than an 80. I certainly hope that parents aren't harassing teachers about their student's grades in high school!

It's OP - there are no retakes at DS's public HS. Corrections are a homework assignment (in every class) and not applied to increase test scores. He has homework in every class and it counts minimally to overall grade. Participation and classwork/projects count towards overall grade. I've read on DCUM that most publics are guilty of grade inflation. Not at his school! Just does not happen. I don't know what other parents do, but we do not harass teachers about grades or their rules. DS is laid back and likes all of his teachers. If he has an issue, he communicates directly with them. Yesterday he found an error on a science exam. Teacher graded it out of 100 not 24. All kids in 5 different periods got a a grade increase. I wouldn't have known about it unless his teacher sent an updated report to all parents to disregard a previous weekly progress report that credited DS for the correction.

IMO privates are influenced more than publics, not just about grades but all aspects paid for by tuition.

Anonymous wrote:How does this not show up that he had to take it twice on his record? That does not seem fair for kids that take it once and get an A.

It's OP - he took Alg 2 as an elective and met all of his other requirements including an additional required math. As an elective, there's more flexibility to withdraw. This is about an individual kids choice of elective vs another who may have elected a study hall.

In the end, it may seem unfair that my kid gets a retake, but he also has to retake a class that he worked very hard on for a full year. This is not a win for him. It means he won't reach the his intended goal by doubling up on math this year. It's negligible to the kid who got an A. Compare it to kids who fail a class and attend summer school to pass and move on. DS wishes that he could fill in the gaps in summer school, but his school doesn't offer it as part of the summer curriculum.

80% in this grade inflation era is basically failing but the teachers are being nice to keep parents off their backs. I guarantee that "B" is pumped way up with meaningless homework and other busy work. We just went through this with our youngest. DD had barely a "B" overall but was essentially failing every test, i.e. real measurement of material.

Not the OP, but my DS has not had homework count towards his grade in any math class in high school. You can get a little credit for it if you do it, but not much, and there is no penalty for not doing it. DS has basically not done any math homework over the last four years. I think they do make the students turn in a review packet right before a test. His grades have been based on tests and quizzes and there are no "retakes." I do think he would have benefited from required homework, but his grade is not inflated in any way.

I'm not sure what school your kids go to, but it is very possible to get a grade lower than an 80. I certainly hope that parents aren't harassing teachers about their student's grades in high school!

How does this not show up that he had to take it twice on his record? That does not seem fair for kids that take it once and get an A.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's OP- hope everyone had a Happy Mother's Day! To the PP above re showing work...agree! DS is a math in his head kid since 4th grade, Core Curriculum enforced the show work mentality and resistance was futile. DS is ok showing work, but this is where he makes many simple mistakes.

DS decided that he'll withdraw. I think because he's just so fed up that this entire year has hinged on this class and teacher. She wasn't fully on board with double math and she just kept bringing it up. He was the one who insisted on staying the course. Like I said up thread, teacher and counselor got into his head. Teacher less supportive in a passive way (IMO) and I think he became really anxious, running out of time on tests.

That being said, this weekend was interesting. A family member is an admissions director at a private NE high school. She just finished the piles of acceptances/rejections. Her husband is a math/CS guy. DS talked at length with them. Both advised that he withdraw. Reasons from admission director, "every app is a great kid, we don't accept great kids, we accept the great kids with great GPA's".

Her husband agreed, "why wouldn't you retake for a better grade, GPA is most important". He told DS that it was smart for him to double up in math and take the Alg 2 as an elective because that's why he can drop it with no trace. He's a Tufts undergrad / grad alum. He switched careers to a software design startup and told him which part of Calc is used and it's not much. More for an engineering degree. Told him that his ability to build a system, test it and parlay it into a side biz is a pretty big deal.

DH and I are on the fence, but agree that DS should make the decision.

Good you're allowing him to make the decision. His teacher is saying he lacks foundation and should retake, and people involved with college admissions are saying retake. Yet, you are on the fence.

Yes I am and I know it seems crazy, but I know my kid. He's very strong in math. His teacher gave a quiz and test, every week, this entire year. At first I thought this was great, working in smaller chunks. But he has 5 other classes that all test/quiz every week. One of them being an additional math. Just the luck of the draw for him with teachers this year. I think focusing only on Alg 2 this summer and only pre calc junior year will be less intense. But, like I said, his decision.

Top PP again. I completely understand your perspective. I posted above about my DC and showing work. His skills have really picked up over the last year (of pre-calc). Although I don't think his teacher would finger him as a superstar, I'm confident he's well on his way to solid understanding. I know you're in a different area, but I do think the curriculum re-writes have been part of the issue. Like I said he's just now coming around to the importance of written math, and I think how did it take so many years?, then I realize he's basically at the same point I would have been at, at the same age. I took algebra in 9th, but it was highly formal. He took a class called algebra in 7th but hasn't been forced into formalism until pre-calc, three years later. Pre-calc covers many more topics than my algebra 1, but there are topics I learned in algebra 1 that he only saw for the first time in pre-calc, e.g. properties of logs and exponents. I know the idea is to introduce concepts earlier, and in a way that is a more natural transition to formal math, but it can also leave kids flailing around aimlessly for too long. Teachers talk foundational skills, but these have actually become more wishy washy under the current framework. To exaggerate a little it's like saying, this student has yet to re-invent math independently, there must be something wrong. Good luck! There's no wrong answer, your DC's motivated, he'll take all the courses at some point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's OP- hope everyone had a Happy Mother's Day! To the PP above re showing work...agree! DS is a math in his head kid since 4th grade, Core Curriculum enforced the show work mentality and resistance was futile. DS is ok showing work, but this is where he makes many simple mistakes.

DS decided that he'll withdraw. I think because he's just so fed up that this entire year has hinged on this class and teacher. She wasn't fully on board with double math and she just kept bringing it up. He was the one who insisted on staying the course. Like I said up thread, teacher and counselor got into his head. Teacher less supportive in a passive way (IMO) and I think he became really anxious, running out of time on tests.

That being said, this weekend was interesting. A family member is an admissions director at a private NE high school. She just finished the piles of acceptances/rejections. Her husband is a math/CS guy. DS talked at length with them. Both advised that he withdraw. Reasons from admission director, "every app is a great kid, we don't accept great kids, we accept the great kids with great GPA's".

Her husband agreed, "why wouldn't you retake for a better grade, GPA is most important". He told DS that it was smart for him to double up in math and take the Alg 2 as an elective because that's why he can drop it with no trace. He's a Tufts undergrad / grad alum. He switched careers to a software design startup and told him which part of Calc is used and it's not much. More for an engineering degree. Told him that his ability to build a system, test it and parlay it into a side biz is a pretty big deal.

DH and I are on the fence, but agree that DS should make the decision.

Good you're allowing him to make the decision. His teacher is saying he lacks foundation and should retake, and people involved with college admissions are saying retake. Yet, you are on the fence.

Yes I am and I know it seems crazy, but I know my kid. He's very strong in math. His teacher gave a quiz and test, every week, this entire year. At first I thought this was great, working in smaller chunks. But he has 5 other classes that all test/quiz every week. One of them being an additional math. Just the luck of the draw for him with teachers this year. I think focusing only on Alg 2 this summer and only pre calc junior year will be less intense. But, like I said, his decision.

Anonymous wrote:It's OP- hope everyone had a Happy Mother's Day! To the PP above re showing work...agree! DS is a math in his head kid since 4th grade, Core Curriculum enforced the show work mentality and resistance was futile. DS is ok showing work, but this is where he makes many simple mistakes.

DS decided that he'll withdraw. I think because he's just so fed up that this entire year has hinged on this class and teacher. She wasn't fully on board with double math and she just kept bringing it up. He was the one who insisted on staying the course. Like I said up thread, teacher and counselor got into his head. Teacher less supportive in a passive way (IMO) and I think he became really anxious, running out of time on tests.

That being said, this weekend was interesting. A family member is an admissions director at a private NE high school. She just finished the piles of acceptances/rejections. Her husband is a math/CS guy. DS talked at length with them. Both advised that he withdraw. Reasons from admission director, "every app is a great kid, we don't accept great kids, we accept the great kids with great GPA's".

Her husband agreed, "why wouldn't you retake for a better grade, GPA is most important". He told DS that it was smart for him to double up in math and take the Alg 2 as an elective because that's why he can drop it with no trace. He's a Tufts undergrad / grad alum. He switched careers to a software design startup and told him which part of Calc is used and it's not much. More for an engineering degree. Told him that his ability to build a system, test it and parlay it into a side biz is a pretty big deal.

DH and I are on the fence, but agree that DS should make the decision.

Good you're allowing him to make the decision. His teacher is saying he lacks foundation and should retake, and people involved with college admissions are saying retake. Yet, you are on the fence.

It's OP- hope everyone had a Happy Mother's Day! To the PP above re showing work...agree! DS is a math in his head kid since 4th grade, Core Curriculum enforced the show work mentality and resistance was futile. DS is ok showing work, but this is where he makes many simple mistakes.

DS decided that he'll withdraw. I think because he's just so fed up that this entire year has hinged on this class and teacher. She wasn't fully on board with double math and she just kept bringing it up. He was the one who insisted on staying the course. Like I said up thread, teacher and counselor got into his head. Teacher less supportive in a passive way (IMO) and I think he became really anxious, running out of time on tests.

That being said, this weekend was interesting. A family member is an admissions director at a private NE high school. She just finished the piles of acceptances/rejections. Her husband is a math/CS guy. DS talked at length with them. Both advised that he withdraw. Reasons from admission director, "every app is a great kid, we don't accept great kids, we accept the great kids with great GPA's".

Her husband agreed, "why wouldn't you retake for a better grade, GPA is most important". He told DS that it was smart for him to double up in math and take the Alg 2 as an elective because that's why he can drop it with no trace. He's a Tufts undergrad / grad alum. He switched careers to a software design startup and told him which part of Calc is used and it's not much. More for an engineering degree. Told him that his ability to build a system, test it and parlay it into a side biz is a pretty big deal.

DH and I are on the fence, but agree that DS should make the decision.

I'd guess OP's already made the decision, but I'm always suspicious of gatekeeping in math. Due diligence from the school will be based on the generic student, and neglect DS's motivation. If DS feels the teacher is wrong about foundational knowledge, I'd trust that. It's pretty common for a student who is getting the material, to loose points because they haven't developed good habits for communicating math--showing work. Clearly, your DS is getting wrong answers but, if he isn't pedantic about showing work, he looses the opportunity for partial credit, and the chance to catch himself in the mistake. If he turns in a test with inexplicable work, the teacher will make assumptions about his understanding. This is just a wild guess, but I say this because my DS is in pre-calc this year, and I feel like it's the first time he's come around to the importance of the work and not just the solution. It sounds simple, but kids really resist doing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not believe counselors are telling kids to retake classes they got a C in. What the heck? I can’t believe they allowed two maths too. I would have a lot of choice words with the principal/dean for this.

High school is to learn. Not to make some fake college resume that looks perfect.

Many kids get one or even a few C’s. It shows more character. Some things you had to work for a bit harder than others. Not everyone gets A’s. Taking two years of a math you didn’t fail, is a scam. Schools should be embarrassed. This isn’t his true transcript.

Seriously. Is this what we've come to?
Take a step back and think about how ridiculous this is all is.

No wonder everyone in MCPS has an A average.

Exactly. It isn’t bad enough they get rid of finals, pump up grades, give a whole point higher for a basic honors course and curve all their grades. Now we drop classes we get C’s in? I am sorry, but withdrawing from a class should not be allowed.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t consider an 80 “tanking” I think your perception of his “failure” his running off on him and putting unnecessary pressure.

80% in this grade inflation era is basically failing but the teachers are being nice to keep parents off their backs. I guarantee that "B" is pumped way up with meaningless homework and other busy work. We just went through this with our youngest. DD had barely a "B" overall but was essentially failing every test, i.e. real measurement of material.

We got a private tutor and had DD retake the course over the summer--there were serious foundation issues that went undiscovered because of previous inflation. The private tutor and retake over the summer really helped DD's confidence moving forward.

I didn't read the entire thread but what was the reason for doubling up on math this year?