Agreeing with what an earlier pp mentioned earlier - this is especially important for female and minority scholars who are frequently not addressed by their title even while their white male colleagues are. I (female professor) experienced this a few years ago when an email to myself and a colleague was addressed as Dr. XXX and Mrs. XXX (the student had no reason to know whether I was married or not).

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, now you see the downside of you teaching your children to call your adult friends and neighbors by their first names, with no "Ms." or "Mr." or anything.

Sorry! But actually, from your continued attitude, I'm glad. You and your rude daughter will not get the extra-mile opportunities and second chances and thoughtfulness that comes from a relationship with a faculty member based on respect. My children will be reaping those rewards.

I just asked my 10 year old to pretend she’s 20 and in college. I said your professor is a woman, Mary Smith. You’ve heard someone call her Mary. You have to speak to her for the first time what do you say? (I’m commenting here because she calls most neighbors/family friends by their first names) she said I think I’d call her Ms Smith unless college teachers are called something besides Ms.

So yeah OP you and your daughter are in the wrong

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter claims basically all of her professors and faculty prefer first name basis. And that same majority are casual about emails, i.e. just say what you have to say, no need for the formal business format each email "Dear Dr. so and so, ... blah blah ... Best, kiddo."

But she casually called one professor by their first name and was sort of pulled to the side and chastised face to face. She did the same in an email response to an advisor and the advisor literally told her to meet her in the office later in the week. At the office she told her she needs to conduct herself with more professionalism. Calm down, Ms. Advisor.

Are the two outliers just obnoxious jerks or do they have a point?

In most R1 schools in America professors do not insist on Dr and first names are ok.
(This is different in Europe, and in medical schools, where the fancy titles are de riguer.)

A few stuffed shirts will want to be called Dr. You can start off that way and generally most will say “call me Steve”. Yes the two are outliers.

If a professor insists on the title, use it, and then avoid that professor in future.

Respect is earned and based on intellect and ideas, not titles.

Not true across the board. I got my PhD from an R1 and taught at 2 R1s. Depending on the school, undergrads addresses faculty as “Dr” or “Prof”. Grad students are a different thing especially when talking to your advisor. But no harm in always starting off with a formal title.

How are kids supposed to address professors? Dr., Professor, first name? ...

Students should refer to their professors in college as - Professor Last Name or Dr. Last Name (if Dr. is in their suffix). I hope you find this helpful.

Anonymous wrote:Daughter claims basically all of her professors and faculty prefer first name basis. And that same majority are casual about emails, i.e. just say what you have to say, no need for the formal business format each email "Dear Dr. so and so, ... blah blah ... Best, kiddo."

But she casually called one professor by their first name and was sort of pulled to the side and chastised face to face. She did the same in an email response to an advisor and the advisor literally told her to meet her in the office later in the week. At the office she told her she needs to conduct herself with more professionalism. Calm down, Ms. Advisor.

Are the two outliers just obnoxious jerks or do they have a point?

In most R1 schools in America professors do not insist on Dr and first names are ok.
(This is different in Europe, and in medical schools, where the fancy titles are de riguer.)

A few stuffed shirts will want to be called Dr. You can start off that way and generally most will say “call me Steve”. Yes the two are outliers.

If a professor insists on the title, use it, and then avoid that professor in future.

Respect is earned and based on intellect and ideas, not titles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know there have been a number of past DCUM threads in which great scorn was heaped upon PhDs who wanted to be called "Doctor" in the workplace. "Ha, only an insecure uptight aszhole wants to be called doctor just because they have a PhD!"

But now, apparently, it's all about the Respect and Professionalism...

And before everyone says academia is not the same as the workplace, in fact, adults in the workplace should show more respect and professionalism to other adults with credentials than students at university should show to their professors, not less. Presuming, at least, that adults in the workplace are more mature than college students.

Those threads were mostly talking about social situations, or a workplace in terms of colleagues referencing each other. OP's kid is not a colleague, and it's not a social situation. She is a student. Someone who, by definition, is much lower on the totem pole and is there to learn from those above her.

I have a PhD and would never expect (or want) to be referred to as Dr in a social situation. I don't even select that as my title when filling out forms at medical practices. I also don't expect the office staff or tech staff at the universities to call me anything other than my first name. However, if a student just waltzed in and started talking to a room full of academics as if she's meeting them in a bar then that doesn't give a good impression.

The professor is a well-paid employee, the student is the paying customer. Why does the student have to act like a servile throne sniffer?

this is why I quit teaching...students who think they're "customers" because they "pay tuition"
my profession is to train your brain, not mix your latte
ffs

Anonymous wrote:I went to a college where many, but not all, professors asked to be called by their first names. Still, I always started with “Professors lastname” until they made clear they wanted to be called by their first name.

This. This is what your daughter should do. Use their formal title unless/until the faculty member suggests otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter is now in the world of academia. This is how academia works: You err on the side of respect until you are invited into a more informal relationship.

Don't like it? You don't have to stay in academia.

I have a master's degree and have worked as an administrative staff member at four universities and a law school. This is how academia is. Now you know, too.

What exactly is disrespectful about using someone's first name?

If they are your professor, and haven't invited you to, it just is.

+1 Do your kids call their grandparents by their first names? Do they call you by your first name? Do they call their doctors or teachers by their first names?

So why would you presume that their university professors are somehow less worthy of respect, or that your child is somehow the peer of a university professor?

I want to know where OP went to college that this is all coming as a surprise to her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely a troll.

You haven’t been around very many college-age kids lately, have you?

Oh I have no doubt that it could have happened to the kid. It's OP's attitude. Of course OP knows what is appropriate. He or she wrote this to rile you all up.

And it worked like a charm. Nice one, OP.

OP, did you go to college yourself?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely a troll.

You haven’t been around very many college-age kids lately, have you?

Oh I have no doubt that it could have happened to the kid. It's OP's attitude. Of course OP knows what is appropriate. He or she wrote this to rile you all up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your daughter is very rude and gauche. She needs to understand that she can't treat her college professors the way she treated her high school teachers because 1. her college profs do not care about her helicopter mommy's wrath, 2. your daughter is not, in fact, as special as (you insisted) everyone allowed her to believe in high school, and 3. she is making a fool of herself and will continue to do so into the workplace if she doesn't learn this now.

I was a TA in grad school. I asked students to call me by my first name because I was not a professor. However, professors were addressed as Dr. or Professor. Even as a grad student, the default method of addressing a prof was Dr. or Professor: presuming familiarity by defaulting to first name is breathtakingly rude.

A helicopter parent would make sure their child addressed people properly.

Unfortunately this isn't the case. I teach high school. Most of my students are lovely, but I have a handful who speak (and email) with a kind of condescending familiarity that comes from parents who teach them educators are to be commanded and scorned ("We're paying customers!"). I often wonder about how this works out for them when they go to college. Now, from this thread, I know.

I also get a lot of one sentence emails from high school seniors who really should know better. Advisors and teachers have tried to talk to them about this, but it changes nothing. Will they email their college professors like this?

"Hey I'm going to be skiing with my family next week so can you send me your lesson plans for what I miss?"

"My mom said she emailed u about my grade but u didn't change it and i work relly hard on my writting so i don't know why u gave me a C"

"I think its unfair to make us read a book when theres nothing on spark notes for it. Can I read something else instead?"

Last week a student told one of my colleagues that "My parents pay your salary." This was an 18 year old. I'm sure that attitude will follow him into college.

But I actually think college must have changed a lot in 10 years. I don't think the college experience our children are having is much like our own. I feel sorry for longtime professors; some of my favorites will still be teaching, and it makes me so sad to think of students speaking to them the way they speak to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter is now in the world of academia. This is how academia works: You err on the side of respect until you are invited into a more informal relationship.

Don't like it? You don't have to stay in academia.

I have a master's degree and have worked as an administrative staff member at four universities and a law school. This is how academia is. Now you know, too.

What exactly is disrespectful about using someone's first name?

If they are your professor, and haven't invited you to, it just is.

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely a troll.

You haven’t been around very many college-age kids lately, have you?

I think professors should make it clear on day 1, and students should follow their lead.

In grad school (as an adult, older than some faculty) it was hard to keep track of who was Prof vs Ms or Dr, and one Dr snapped at me when I used Ms, because I really had no idea of her title.

On graduation day several of them said "oh you can call me Larla now!" It's so silly