Anonymous
08/05/2023 18:03
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Some countries in the Middle East have very diverse populations where some could be considered white, while others non-white. For example, in Turkey and Iran, there are populations of African descent and they are obviously not white. In Afghanistan, Hazaras descend from a mixture of Mongolians and Iranian tribes that are indigenous to Afghanistan, and they often have an East Asian appearance. They wouldn't be seen as or treated as white. Pashtuns and Tajiks from Afghanistan are Caucasians of Eastern Iranian descent and have very high levels of european steppe ancestry, and they can often have pale skin/light hair/light eyes.
I volunteer to help many Afghan refugees and many many many look “asian” to me- not just south Asian but Asian. Some could pass as Eastern European, but etc. l was actually wondering how all this will affect their future chances.
Race is a social construct— all made up and yet so powerful— like money. No inherent value except for the value we all collectively give to it.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 17:16
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslim Middle Easterners are Muslim and white. They do not fall into the “brown” category because of their religion.
Jews are also subject to harassment/discrimination but are not ‘brown’ because of it. They are still considered white.
No, it's not this simple. Many Muslim and Jewish Middle Easterners ARE brown. And even if they have white skin, they are often "othered". I'm a light-skinned Jew and trust me, I was never considered white until about twenty years ago, and even now, I am only considered white by certain people. I am not "brown" obviously, but I do not identify as white. I identify as a Jew (which has nothing to do with religious belief, as I am an atheist).
If you are Jewish, with white skin, you are white. Just stop. Jews in America are as white as they come.
They’re only considered white now that white is bad. No one thought Jews were white last century.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 17:07
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought they were considered to be Asian.
+1
For diversity tracking they are considered to be white - which makes NO SENSE!
Anonymous
08/05/2023 16:59
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslim Middle Easterners are Muslim and white. They do not fall into the “brown” category because of their religion.
Jews are also subject to harassment/discrimination but are not ‘brown’ because of it. They are still considered white.
No, it's not this simple. Many Muslim and Jewish Middle Easterners ARE brown. And even if they have white skin, they are often "othered". I'm a light-skinned Jew and trust me, I was never considered white until about twenty years ago, and even now, I am only considered white by certain people. I am not "brown" obviously, but I do not identify as white. I identify as a Jew (which has nothing to do with religious belief, as I am an atheist).
If you are Jewish, with white skin, you are white. Just stop. Jews in America are as white as they come.
They may be white, but they aren't European. All genetic studies have shown that Ashkenazi Jews are a Middle Eastern population that is admixed with about 40-45% European ancestry from Northern Italy.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 16:57
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Some countries in the Middle East have very diverse populations where some could be considered white, while others non-white. For example, in Turkey and Iran, there are populations of African descent and they are obviously not white. In Afghanistan, Hazaras descend from a mixture of Mongolians and Iranian tribes that are indigenous to Afghanistan, and they often have an East Asian appearance. They wouldn't be seen as or treated as white. Pashtuns and Tajiks from Afghanistan are Caucasians of Eastern Iranian descent and have very high levels of european steppe ancestry, and they can often have pale skin/light hair/light eyes.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 15:17
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslim Middle Easterners are Muslim and white. They do not fall into the “brown” category because of their religion.
Jews are also subject to harassment/discrimination but are not ‘brown’ because of it. They are still considered white.
No, it's not this simple. Many Muslim and Jewish Middle Easterners ARE brown. And even if they have white skin, they are often "othered". I'm a light-skinned Jew and trust me, I was never considered white until about twenty years ago, and even now, I am only considered white by certain people. I am not "brown" obviously, but I do not identify as white. I identify as a Jew (which has nothing to do with religious belief, as I am an atheist).
If you are Jewish, with white skin, you are white. Just stop. Jews in America are as white as they come.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 15:13
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Muslim Middle Easterners are Muslim and white. They do not fall into the “brown” category because of their religion.
Jews are also subject to harassment/discrimination but are not ‘brown’ because of it. They are still considered white.
No, it's not this simple. Many Muslim and Jewish Middle Easterners ARE brown. And even if they have white skin, they are often "othered". I'm a light-skinned Jew and trust me, I was never considered white until about twenty years ago, and even now, I am only considered white by certain people. I am not "brown" obviously, but I do not identify as white. I identify as a Jew (which has nothing to do with religious belief, as I am an atheist).
Anonymous
08/05/2023 15:03
Subject: Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:I have a Polish-American coworker (Gen Z, born here) who insists that she is not white. She's as white as they come.
I asked her who exactly she considers white and it boiled down to Caucasian people in America who only speak English because "they don't have a culture." If you're born here but speak another language you count as "diverse". Under that criteria I'm the only white person in the workplace ...though my skin is darker than hers due to some Middle Eastern ancestry!
lol reminds me of a French-Canadian woman I know who says she's Latina because French is a Latin language.
People just really really don't want to have to identify as white anymore.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 15:00
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
I personally do not tick off "white/Caucasian" on forms, but some might.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 13:15
Subject: Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:I live in So Cal where there is a huge Persian population. I don’t believe my Persian friends consider themselves white - culturally it’s a bridge too big. But technically, on documents, school forms that is the correct “category.” They absolutely talk about white people as “other” - and not something they identify as. Interesting discussions!
I think that's cultural vs race.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 13:15
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought they were considered to be Asian.
+1
Why would you think that? They don't look Asian at all.
Because Asia is a continent and their countries are in Asia.
The ME sits in between the continents of Asia, Europe and Africa. Because of that, their people are a mix, and many are actually white. Some are lighter than some southern Europeans.
A white person could be born in Asia, but their race is still white.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 13:09
Subject: Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are white and caucasian the same?
Are people from the Middle East, like Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc considered to be 'white' by the general world population?
Nope
US govt disagrees with you. They are considered white.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 12:58
Subject: Re:Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Depends on their religion. If Muslim, no. If Christian, yes (unless Palestinian). If Jewish, yes except by white supremacists.
-Christian Middle Easterner who is always read as white
this is bullshit. It doesn't go by religion.
Iranians for example are Muslim but are considered white.
I think it depends on whether you're asking how they are considered on official paperwork (e.g. what box they are supposed to check) or whether they experience white privilege. I think the PP is correct that Muslims experience a similar level of discrimination as BIPOC people, and that Jews are targeted by some of the same people who would discriminate against someone who is Muslim, but are accepted by others.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 12:54
Subject: Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
Registrar here. Always self designate as Caucasian.
Anonymous
08/05/2023 12:51
Subject: Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?
I live in So Cal where there is a huge Persian population. I don’t believe my Persian friends consider themselves white - culturally it’s a bridge too big. But technically, on documents, school forms that is the correct “category.” They absolutely talk about white people as “other” - and not something they identify as. Interesting discussions!