Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record, Harvard Law is about $64,000 in tuition this year. The other $32K or so is what they figure it would take someone to live (and eat) in Cambridge for the year. Still exorbitant, of course, but not truly $100k.

$95,800, which includes room and board in the dorm. https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/financial-aid-policy-overview/student-financial-aid-budget/. Add in a few flights home or to interview = $100K.

What kind of buffoon lives in a dorm/is on a meal plan in law school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD got in to Northwestern and she is over the moon.

If we continue to save $1K a month, we should only be $35K short for the 4 years of tuition.

Still it's SO MUCH $! Am I the only one that feels this way? My DD has brought it up more than once to me. I tend to be okay about money issues. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

TIA

Dear OP - I think the costs are going to be higher than you may think based upon your post. Costs of attendance at NW (I have no affiliation or position on Northwestern) are now $76,000 a year, as is common among many of the private colleges and universities.

No, it's not $76K before incidentals. It's no bargain but let's not keep inflating the number. I do have a freshman at NU (never NW, by the way) and I just got done paying her bill for the Winter quarter so I can tell you what it costs down to the penny. The quarterly breakdown: tuition $18,040; room (double) $2,974; meal plan $2,176 = $23,190 x 3 (quarters) = $69,570. Add in a few hundred per quarter for books etc, plus relatively cheap airfare to Chicago several times a year, plus a budget for other random stuff, and the total package price should be somewhere around $72K. So, again, not arguing that it's a bargain, but just giving the real numbers for the sake of accuracy. Also, on-campus jobs are plentiful and DD got one at the student center for around 10 hours a week that covers her incidentals.

Yes, it is - $75,576 to live on campus. Maybe this is for next year, but it's right here. https://undergradaid.northwestern.edu/aid-basics-eligibility/cost-of-attendance.html

Do you know how to read a chart?

From the link:
Direct costs are tuition (54,120), fee (447), on campus room and board (16,626).

It is only when you add in the indirect costs (“THESE EXPENSES WILL NOT APPEAR ON YOUR INVOICE FROM NORTHWESTERN”) do you get the $75K number.

Anonymous wrote:For the record, Harvard Law is about $64,000 in tuition this year. The other $32K or so is what they figure it would take someone to live (and eat) in Cambridge for the year. Still exorbitant, of course, but not truly $100k.

$95,800, which includes room and board in the dorm. https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/financial-aid-policy-overview/student-financial-aid-budget/. Add in a few flights home or to interview = $100K.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD got in to Northwestern and she is over the moon.

If we continue to save $1K a month, we should only be $35K short for the 4 years of tuition.

Still it's SO MUCH $! Am I the only one that feels this way? My DD has brought it up more than once to me. I tend to be okay about money issues. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

TIA

Dear OP - I think the costs are going to be higher than you may think based upon your post. Costs of attendance at NW (I have no affiliation or position on Northwestern) are now $76,000 a year, as is common among many of the private colleges and universities.

No, it's not $76K before incidentals. It's no bargain but let's not keep inflating the number. I do have a freshman at NU (never NW, by the way) and I just got done paying her bill for the Winter quarter so I can tell you what it costs down to the penny. The quarterly breakdown: tuition $18,040; room (double) $2,974; meal plan $2,176 = $23,190 x 3 (quarters) = $69,570. Add in a few hundred per quarter for books etc, plus relatively cheap airfare to Chicago several times a year, plus a budget for other random stuff, and the total package price should be somewhere around $72K. So, again, not arguing that it's a bargain, but just giving the real numbers for the sake of accuracy. Also, on-campus jobs are plentiful and DD got one at the student center for around 10 hours a week that covers her incidentals.

Yes, it is - $75,576 to live on campus. Maybe this is for next year, but it's right here. https://undergradaid.northwestern.edu/aid-basics-eligibility/cost-of-attendance.html

For the record, Harvard Law is about $64,000 in tuition this year. The other $32K or so is what they figure it would take someone to live (and eat) in Cambridge for the year. Still exorbitant, of course, but not truly $100k.

Anonymous wrote:Used cars for us last 10 years. It’s a bummer you just pray it’s all worth it and the kids appreciate the sacrifices. We also had some generous help from grandparents.

Buying a used car is a sacrifice? What a privileged and jaded society we live in.

Used cars for us last 10 years. It’s a bummer you just pray it’s all worth it and the kids appreciate the sacrifices. We also had some generous help from grandparents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD got in to Northwestern and she is over the moon.

If we continue to save $1K a month, we should only be $35K short for the 4 years of tuition.

Still it's SO MUCH $! Am I the only one that feels this way? My DD has brought it up more than once to me. I tend to be okay about money issues. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

TIA

Dear OP - I think the costs are going to be higher than you may think based upon your post. Costs of attendance at NW (I have no affiliation or position on Northwestern) are now $76,000 a year, as is common among many of the private colleges and universities.

No, it's not $76K before incidentals. It's no bargain but let's not keep inflating the number. I do have a freshman at NU (never NW, by the way) and I just got done paying her bill for the Winter quarter so I can tell you what it costs down to the penny. The quarterly breakdown: tuition $18,040; room (double) $2,974; meal plan $2,176 = $23,190 x 3 (quarters) = $69,570. Add in a few hundred per quarter for books etc, plus relatively cheap airfare to Chicago several times a year, plus a budget for other random stuff, and the total package price should be somewhere around $72K. So, again, not arguing that it's a bargain, but just giving the real numbers for the sake of accuracy. Also, on-campus jobs are plentiful and DD got one at the student center for around 10 hours a week that covers her incidentals.

Room & Board is one area where you can often shave the costs a bit as you become an upper classmen and move off-campus. Certainly not everywhere for housing, of course. It obviously depends on the market. If you're at NYU or GWU, you're probably not going to find better at an off-campus apartment. But in many college towns you can save a lot. That was our experience with one kid in Gainesville, FL, and a niece in Madison, WI. I don't know what the housing costs are like in Evanston, probably relatively high I would guess. But as for meals, any kid with some modest cooking skills can save a fortune off the meal plan, and eat more healthily too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD got in to Northwestern and she is over the moon.

If we continue to save $1K a month, we should only be $35K short for the 4 years of tuition.

Still it's SO MUCH $! Am I the only one that feels this way? My DD has brought it up more than once to me. I tend to be okay about money issues. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

TIA

Dear OP - I think the costs are going to be higher than you may think based upon your post. Costs of attendance at NW (I have no affiliation or position on Northwestern) are now $76,000 a year, as is common among many of the private colleges and universities.

No, it's not $76K before incidentals. It's no bargain but let's not keep inflating the number. I do have a freshman at NU (never NW, by the way) and I just got done paying her bill for the Winter quarter so I can tell you what it costs down to the penny. The quarterly breakdown: tuition $18,040; room (double) $2,974; meal plan $2,176 = $23,190 x 3 (quarters) = $69,570. Add in a few hundred per quarter for books etc, plus relatively cheap airfare to Chicago several times a year, plus a budget for other random stuff, and the total package price should be somewhere around $72K. So, again, not arguing that it's a bargain, but just giving the real numbers for the sake of accuracy. Also, on-campus jobs are plentiful and DD got one at the student center for around 10 hours a week that covers her incidentals.

Anonymous wrote:My son goes to a school that cost $280K. Our HHI is $250k, but has not always been that high.

We have not saved very much (about $50k) due to a few medical issues.

We have a normal house, no summer home, modest vacations, no fancy cars and inexpensive clothes.

We have 10k in loans, 21 in grants, and pay the other 40 out of pocket.

It's a choice that works for him. If it doesn't work for your family then it doesn't.

How did you grants. We. Have similar HHI and don’t expect anything. We will have twins and then one more behind them and all overlapping for two years.

Anonymous wrote:This is the problem with price shopping for everything to the exclusion of everything else. We have done this to our k-12 education also. We want to get a great education for our kids but pay teachers pittance in salary. Teachers have to take jobs as waitresses in summer to make ends meet. Maintaining and running a world class University with professors who can actually afford to live off their salary is expensive!! If the State doesn't subsidize it somebody has to pay the bills! What value do you put on smaller classes, easier time getting into required classes and other benefits at private colleges? And who should pay for it.

Imagine what would happen to tight state budgets and already overcrowded state schools if we had no private colleges? The reason state schools appear cheap is because somebody is massively subsidizing them. But that may not last to long. Look at Wisconsin, IL, CA and many other states. The state is pulling back and the schools in these states are now facing a lot of budget problems

What some parents really want is for somebody else to subsidize their kids education. They want tax payers or private donors to be suckers. They don't really want to pay the true price for a good education. They want massive subsidies but don't want any obligations for accepting those subsidies.

Some of your points are valid but you're missing several big issues:

Many of the oldest and most prestigious universiities have endowments in the billions. They no longer need the tuition dollars yet they are the very same institutions that keep setting the standard for cost of attendance, and hiking it year after year - because they can. Simply put, many many of these private institutions do not cost the price of admission. They charge what they do (undergrad now approaching $85K at some institutions; law schools at $100K) simply because they can and then those paying full freight offset the gap for those who need merit and financial aid. For example, it does not take $100K for Harvard Law to teach your first year student. There are 100+ students in one section being taught by one professor. A first-year section has only four or five professors at one time. Because Harvard is Harvard, and Yale is Yale, etc., they can charge whatever they want and some family will pay for it (plus buildings). The SLACs and other universities then follow suit. My lousy LAC is not Harvard but charges the same amount. A Mercedes is not a Chevy but because market forces are what they are, the fees jump across the board for all institutions every year. Decades ago, Harvard and Yale got caught in price fixing. Now they just announce what the next year's fees will be and every other institution follows suit, down to the pretty little LAC down the street. It's impossible for all these institutions to cost the same amount of money. But so long as parents are willing to pay these obscene amounts of money, and so long as the INTERNATIONAL students are willing to pay this amount of money, the prices will continue to rise across the board. This is why most private institutions have priced themselves out of existence for donut hole, MC and UMC families. We make too much to qualify for financial aid; merit aid is not available at the most prestigious institutions but we are the ones left paying $75 to $85K a year, often to subsidize the poorer students.

As to the state institutions, I think it only fair that families who have lived in the state and have pumped tax dollars into the state should take advantage of their in-state options. A multi-year requirement should be imposed however, so people can't game the system by moving into California and Virginia the year before applications are due to apply for in-state status. You're also missing the argument that some state publics like UVA are almost self-sufficient, operating off a large endowment. For the other state institutions, they go back to their legislatures and ask for more cash. The state (like California) turns around and taxes the MC and UMC to the point where they move out of the state.

Meanwhile California and Texas have decided to limit the number of seats available to OOS students to 20% (or top 10% of high school class) because residents are sick of paying big tax dollars and then finding out their kids cannot get into the institutions they have been paying for years.

Smart parents are trying to get their children into the best in-state schools possible (and OOS where fees are significantly lower than privates) and saving for grad school. Private institutions are rapidly becoming bastions for the ultra rich, the rich, the internationals and those on financial aid with no MC and UMC students.

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Anonymous wrote:More like $300K, going up 5% per year.

Can’t do this forever.

I've been thinking about the same thing. Even after DC graduate from college, I am going to keeping paying $8k/year into the 529 account. When I have grand kids, the account should help them a bit.

That's a really generous thought however, what if they don't have kids or they fall into bad times and need another type of help? I would save separately. You can always do a lump sum 5 year contribution later...currently that's $70k or $140k joint.

What if? None of us can predict the future. It’s great to plan for the future you expect. You can make adjustments as needed when the time comes.

After my children use the money in their 529s, I’m also going to continue to save for my future grandchildren’s education. I’m speaking it into existence!

I’m all for optimism, but this is a little messed up. Your kids are their own sentient beings, but just vehicles for your ego.

What in the world are you talking about? On what planet is this “messed up”?!? I’m sure my children won’t think it’s messed up when I contribute tens of thousands of dollars (tax free) to their children’s education. Educational attainment is a part of our family’s legacy. Clearly you’re unfamiliar with the concept.

Generous thought poster - You should talk to our advisor or CPA. The rules of 529s will lock you into tax penalties so adjustments as needed are not without a heavy financial price. You do you but be informed.

No, you just sound bitter that you can’t provide the same generous support for your future grandchildren.

Let's see if I can make this clearer. I am trying to say to you that saving with that goal is admirable. But do it outside of a 529. If all you can save is $8,000/year, you probably can't afford the penalties if your kids need the money for something else like health issues. Put it in a regular investent account or better yet a ROTH if you're eligible. Talk to your financial advisor.

You are misunderstanding my point. Both of my elementary school children have 529s with over $100K. My oldest child is 10 years old and her 529 has nearly $200K. By the time they reach college, they should have around $300K each. After my children have graduated from college (and hopefully graduate school), I will continue to contribute $8,000 per year to their 529s for my future grandchildren (and the DC tax deduction). We can afford to contribute much more, but we don’t want to do so. We will make it clear to our children that our 529 contributions are supplemental to their own—we don’t intend to fully fund our grandchildren’s education because that is their parent’s responsibility. They should regard our contribution as a generous scholarship. We won’t even tell them about our contribution until their children are a few years old.

There are max 529 contribution limits per beneficiary in te $300-30k range From the fgures you quote, dependig on where you live, the limits will be exhausted with your own children. The IRS imposes these conditions so that people can't take advantage of the tax beaks for phanton people.

In DC proper (where I reside), the lifetime contribution limit is $500K PER BENEFICIARY. I won’t reach that contribution limit for either child. After the grandchildren are born, I will officially change the beneficiary, and that resets the contribution amount.

What if you never have any grandchildren?

I’ll cross that bridge IF I get to it. There are many ways to liquidate the money if things don’t go as planned. However, I choose to plan for the future that I want. As I said before, I’m speaking (and planning) my wishes into existence (as well as my children’s stated dreams of spouses and children). It’s been working very well so far.

Your children are in elementary school. I hope that you have no occasion to regret that 10% penalty.
Still it will be many years and legislatures later until saving for your phantom granchildren will start. Who knows what the tax laws regarding deductions and withdrawals will be.

Who knows what the future holds, Little Miss Sunshine? My plans and my children’s plans do not affect you at all. If there are tax penalties, you won’t pay them. You should worry about yourself.

This is the problem with price shopping for everything to the exclusion of everything else. We have done this to our k-12 education also. We want to get a great education for our kids but pay teachers pittance in salary. Teachers have to take jobs as waitresses in summer to make ends meet. Maintaining and running a world class University with professors who can actually afford to live off their salary is expensive!! If the State doesn't subsidize it somebody has to pay the bills! What value do you put on smaller classes, easier time getting into required classes and other benefits at private colleges? And who should pay for it.

Imagine what would happen to tight state budgets and already overcrowded state schools if we had no private colleges? The reason state schools appear cheap is because somebody is massively subsidizing them. But that may not last to long. Look at Wisconsin, IL, CA and many other states. The state is pulling back and the schools in these states are now facing a lot of budget problems

What some parents really want is for somebody else to subsidize their kids education. They want tax payers or private donors to be suckers. They don't really want to pay the true price for a good education. They want massive subsidies but don't want any obligations for accepting those subsidies.

^^ forgot to mention that FAFSA and the schools applied to did not offer any merit or financial aid with the exception of the minimum $5500 unsubsidized student loan. Those are the donut holes families: we make too much to qualify for aid but we don't have a few million lying about to send several children to private institutions so in-state it is. That's why you see such fervor on these pages about students getting into UCLA and Berkeley or other schools in the California system or the Virginia schools if Virginia in-state resident. If you are blessed with an in-state option, go for it and if you have any residual dollars (first prepare for your own retirement), sock that away for grad school. One of my kids in college is talking law school. Harvard is now $100K a year. Med schools are often the same.

Anonymous wrote:DD got in to Northwestern and she is over the moon.

If we continue to save $1K a month, we should only be $35K short for the 4 years of tuition.

Still it's SO MUCH $! Am I the only one that feels this way? My DD has brought it up more than once to me. I tend to be okay about money issues. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

TIA

Dear OP - I think the costs are going to be higher than you may think based upon your post. Costs of attendance at NW (I have no affiliation or position on Northwestern) are now $76,000 a year, as is common among many of the private colleges and universities. That means a commitment of $300,000 for four years assuming you did not or will not receive any form of financial aid. Then, as a PP pointed out, there are the incidental fees which really do add up (I have two students in college right now). Those include travel fees, airline costs, shipping stuff, buying dorm stuff, clothes, greek memberships if you are into that, costs for eating out with friends or partying . . . the list goes on and on even if your child is frugal as ours are and make wise choices. Then there are study abroad in addition to tuition should your child do that. Then please understand that more than 65% of our nation's students are not finishing their degrees in four years, especially in the larger universities where they can't get the classes they need. One of our children will take six years to finish. So now you are talking about the possibility of spending to at least half a million in tuition, room and board, and ancillary fees. Finally, if you don't have much money stashed away for this, as most of us donut hole families do not because we are taking care of still-living parents and trying to put money away for retirement and have suffered financial setbacks along the way, the money you make to pay for tuition and costs is taxed first before you pay the school. That means you may have to make $750 - $900K in order to pay the half a million (we're in the top bracket). This is why both of our children are in in-state schools. It sounds like you have some savings so that's a good start, but do some real number crunching if this is an EA decision, not ED. Look hard at applying RD to your in-state schools wherever you may be and remember that you are paying those fees in after-tax dollars. Talk also with your child. Undoubtedly they will want to move off campus at some point - that was not financially viable in the case of one of our children and they had to stay in the dorms. Neither had a car with them on campus (more costs). A wise friend (widow) took her daughter in with her to talk to their family financial advisor who ran over the numbers in front of the daughter between an in-state school and a private school and demonstrated that with the money left after the father had died unexpectedly, the private was not a viable option. Best of luck to you!