Anonymous
02/08/2019 18:25
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Sibling E should forfeit their share of inheritance to pay for 1/3 of cleaning and extra care duties since the other siblings are putting in the actual time and care. Set an hourly rate, multiplied by the time needed to clean windows, prepare meals or whatever. The on-site siblings can do it themselves or hire extra help. Sibling E is off the hook and has contributed his share, (I suspect E is a male and the on site siblings are female).
Anonymous
02/08/2019 17:35
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:This is a great thread. We went through this with More siblings and it was hard. Mother w dementia had to be placed in assisted living. Sibling A (oldest,POA, PITA) was trying to control everyone. It was crazy. We just started doing what we wanted, paying for it, and submitting receipts. I guess we can bean count later!
I read that like a list of degrees: MD, PhD, PITA...
Anonymous
02/08/2019 17:29
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. None of the siblings are that interested in their inheritance (plus the inheritance will be split so many ways because there were a lot of children and grandchildren). Siblings A-E are all doing what they think is best out of love.
I don't believe this for a second.
OP here. Sibling A (the cheapest) is the wealthiest actually. Paying for a cleaning person or yard crew really isn't going to change their inheritance that much.
OP, you are in denial about sibling A's utter selfishness in this situation.
My husband could totally be A. Control-freakiness and cheapness.
Anonymous
02/08/2019 17:27
Subject: Re:When siblings differ on elderly care
Nobody should be forced to donate their time to CLEAN instead of talk to their Mother, when there is enough money to hire someone.
A is unreasonable.
E is not, because despite believing a nursing home is best, they are willing to compromise and pay for more help at home.
I agree with the underlined. It's the best option for now, and facilities specialized in dementia may be needed later. The siblings should do some research about it.
Anonymous
02/08/2019 17:15
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can't let a dementia person live at home without 24/7 supervision. My neighbour had the same arrangement so had people taking turns staying all day. Well guess what, Mom fell down the basement stairs during the night and cracked her skull. You need to pay for somebody to be there around the clock if you want to continue this arrangement.
You are looking at a minimum of 200K to provide around the clock dementia care at home. At one point you're just looking after an empty shell. My neighbour forgot she had been married for 50 years and that her kids were her kids. I don't see the point myself and would go to a home and would have told my kids ahead of time to put me in one. I wouldn't want to put this burden on kids but it seems like plenty of people do.
This is sad. People who haven't dealt with dementia before have no clue how true dementia interferes with the patient's sleep patterns. They end up cat napping and wandering all day and night. Their sleep is not restorative like it is in a healthy person.
Dementia patients suffer from hallucinations, delusions and mood disorders. It is exhausting and overwhelming to deal with this in a home setting because there are so many things that can pose a danger to a dementia patient.
My heart goes out to Op's family.
Not all dementia patients have the above symptoms. Just FYI.
That is literally the definition of dementia.
That’s like saying not all water is wet.
Anonymous
02/08/2019 16:31
Subject: Re:When siblings differ on elderly care
A needs to stop being so controlling or the rest of the siblings need to formally legalize and have someone else stepin .
The mom needs to be formally assessed by a dementia expert for her level of dementia and functionality and recommendations need to be made.
Mom sounds moderately demented, aggressive and paranoid, and will be tough to care for at home, she is running of grandkids
and strangers.
Siblings all waited too long sorry to say. She will not be cooperative with either a nursing home and or in home living but probably
safer ina nursing home at this point.
Siblings need to decided whether it's a nursing home or stay at home. Home care can be as high as 70,000/month.
None of the siblings should be doing yard work or housework, that's ridiculous and none should be paying for this when mom
has 5 million. Power and control, A needs to get a grip. Silbing E should be in charge.
The mom needs to be formally assessed by a dementia expert for her level of dementia and functionality and recommendations need to be made.
Mom sounds moderately demented, aggressive and paranoid, and will be tough to care for at home, she is running of grandkids
and strangers.
Siblings all waited too long sorry to say. She will not be cooperative with either a nursing home and or in home living but probably
safer ina nursing home at this point.
Siblings need to decided whether it's a nursing home or stay at home. Home care can be as high as 70,000/month.
None of the siblings should be doing yard work or housework, that's ridiculous and none should be paying for this when mom
has 5 million. Power and control, A needs to get a grip. Silbing E should be in charge.
Anonymous
12/15/2018 00:25
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Yes to hiring household help/lawn service, etc.
However, I am strongly opposed to (any kind of) nursing home if there are financial resources to support staying in the home. I have watched three great grandparents die in very expensive "assisted living" facilities, and while the facilities were the best money could buy, and we did visit regularly, each elderly person seemed to suffer a marked decline upon leaving the home. In each case, it was heartbreaking to take the elderly person from their home and move them in to the facility. They didn't complain, but it was clearly traumatic, and I understand this.
My surviving parent will go into a home over my dead body. I will do anything possible to keep him in his home when the time comes.
I agree IF people are nearby. I'm the AZ poster above and my parents won't leave their house to move to another they are familiar with. It's closer to family, they can keep their pets, my sister who is burning out now, will have much more family help, etc. We are telling my folks they will have a choice - move back to their home state to be around family OR go into assisted living. End of. If I have to get doctors/lawyers involved I will. Father is willing (has friends he wants to be around), mother is now, I believe failing into dementia, and everyone seems to cater to her emotional tantrums because they 'feel badly'. I don't. I'm angry as hell! Safety is key.
Anonymous
12/15/2018 00:19
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Siblings A-D want their elderly parent cared for at home. That’s what the elderly parent wants. They all put in a lot of work at the parent’s house. The parent has a daytime helper (30 hours) but is often alone at night and they all coordinate visits on weekends. Sibling E wants the parent in a nursing home. E is in the medical profession and sees that the elderly parent has dementia and believes a nursing home would be the best care. E refuses to do the coordinated visits on the weekends (E does visit, but wants it to be a social call, not work). Also wants to hire someone to clean the parent’s house and do yardwork. Siblings A-D weekly clean the parent’s house, mow the grass, rake leaves, etc. Sibling A has power of attorney and control over the checkbook and won’t pay for these items (E refuses to clean because E believes the parent should hire someone). The elderly parent is 90 years old with over 5 million still, so could easily afford help or a nursing home. E would even be okay hiring more round the clock care, but doesn’t want to spend their own retirement cleaning their parent’s house.
Lots of fighting over care, help and sending the parent to a nursing home. Is there any solution? Both sides have points.
How many siblings are there? I got confused. Which one are you? Do you believe that your parent can make decisions? If so, I would go with hiring more help to care for house and parent. I think money can solve most of your problems. Try having this situation but, no money!
OP here. 5 siblings. The parent cannot make their own decisions (thus the power of attorney!). While E is the most vocal about wanting to hire out chores, B-D would be okay hiring more. A is the one who holds the purse strings and won't hire anything out.
The siblings aren't "fighting" exactly, they just all disagree on what should be done and how.
Sibling A is a control freak who is abusing their "Power of Attorney". I would let sibling A go it alone for awhile. Let sibling A do the yard work, the maintenance on the house. The rest of the group can drop by for social visits with grandma and to make sure that SHE is o.k. Sibling A will figure out that the choice is to either 1) Hire the work done 2) move grandma into a nursing home environment. Those are the choices.
I like this. Sibling A likes control? Give it to him/her. Others stop helping and just visit.
Anonymous
12/15/2018 00:16
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. None of the siblings are that interested in their inheritance (plus the inheritance will be split so many ways because there were a lot of children and grandchildren). Siblings A-E are all doing what they think is best out of love.
I don't believe this for a second.
OP here. Sibling A (the cheapest) is the wealthiest actually. Paying for a cleaning person or yard crew really isn't going to change their inheritance that much.
OP, you are in denial about sibling A's utter selfishness in this situation.
Anonymous
12/15/2018 00:13
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Siblings A-D want their elderly parent cared for at home. That’s what the elderly parent wants. They all put in a lot of work at the parent’s house. The parent has a daytime helper (30 hours) but is often alone at night and they all coordinate visits on weekends. Sibling E wants the parent in a nursing home. E is in the medical profession and sees that the elderly parent has dementia and believes a nursing home would be the best care. E refuses to do the coordinated visits on the weekends (E does visit, but wants it to be a social call, not work). Also wants to hire someone to clean the parent’s house and do yardwork. Siblings A-D weekly clean the parent’s house, mow the grass, rake leaves, etc. Sibling A has power of attorney and control over the checkbook and won’t pay for these items (E refuses to clean because E believes the parent should hire someone). The elderly parent is 90 years old with over 5 million still, so could easily afford help or a nursing home. E would even be okay hiring more round the clock care, but doesn’t want to spend their own retirement cleaning their parent’s house.
Lots of fighting over care, help and sending the parent to a nursing home. Is there any solution? Both sides have points.
A 90 yo with dementia has more that $5 million in assets, and one of their adult children won't hire someone to clean the house, do yardwork, or provide more in-home care? That's ridiculous. Person A does not have a point, she's money grubbing to preserve his or her inheritance. I wouldn't spend my retirement cleaning my millionaire mother's house either.
Person A needs to be fired from that job
Anonymous
12/05/2018 16:38
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Is there any way to get POA and the checkbook shared between siblings? Sibling A isn't the oldest if that matters.
The parent can no longer change the POA because of the dementia. Sibling A is unlikely to do it willingly. The only way would be a court fight, and then only the lawyers will get the money.
One sibling needs to file for guardianship - of person and finances. It is not expensive in less siblings contest it. We did it for my MIL - they made us pay for an attorney for MIL but we represented ourselves - MIL attorney should have been paid for by the court but attorney was trying to be slick and refused to say she was medicaid. It was around $1600.
Anonymous
12/05/2018 16:36
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Is there any way to get POA and the checkbook shared between siblings? Sibling A isn't the oldest if that matters.
The parent can no longer change the POA because of the dementia. Sibling A is unlikely to do it willingly. The only way would be a court fight, and then only the lawyers will get the money.
Anonymous
12/02/2018 11:53
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
This is a great thread. We went through this with More siblings and it was hard. Mother w dementia had to be placed in assisted living. Sibling A (oldest,POA, PITA) was trying to control everyone. It was crazy. We just started doing what we wanted, paying for it, and submitting receipts. I guess we can bean count later!
Anonymous
11/15/2018 22:37
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
OP, why would you think there is a way to agree? Agreement is often not possible. Your situation is not unique. Agreement is usually a problem, between siblings, especially with aging parents.
I suggested that - in recognition of someone doing more work than another - that a log be kept and than some hourly rate be applied which eventually affects inheritance. The truth Op is, if your Mother is as wealthy as you indicate, the actual result of any inheritance difference will probably be small and not significant to you. When I suggested this earlier in the thread, everyone jumped all over this suggestion. But ...
What it would do is recognize your sibling's efforts. I am not saying I think they *should* be handling this problem the way they are, caring for her themselves without paying for outside help. However, it is what it is. You are out-numbered and due to that, it is worth it - to the sibling relationship - to do something concrete to acknowledge their efforts.
I suggested that - in recognition of someone doing more work than another - that a log be kept and than some hourly rate be applied which eventually affects inheritance. The truth Op is, if your Mother is as wealthy as you indicate, the actual result of any inheritance difference will probably be small and not significant to you. When I suggested this earlier in the thread, everyone jumped all over this suggestion. But ...
What it would do is recognize your sibling's efforts. I am not saying I think they *should* be handling this problem the way they are, caring for her themselves without paying for outside help. However, it is what it is. You are out-numbered and due to that, it is worth it - to the sibling relationship - to do something concrete to acknowledge their efforts.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 22:25
Subject: When siblings differ on elderly care
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You can't let a dementia person live at home without 24/7 supervision. My neighbour had the same arrangement so had people taking turns staying all day. Well guess what, Mom fell down the basement stairs during the night and cracked her skull. You need to pay for somebody to be there around the clock if you want to continue this arrangement.
You are looking at a minimum of 200K to provide around the clock dementia care at home. At one point you're just looking after an empty shell. My neighbour forgot she had been married for 50 years and that her kids were her kids. I don't see the point myself and would go to a home and would have told my kids ahead of time to put me in one. I wouldn't want to put this burden on kids but it seems like plenty of people do.
This is sad. People who haven't dealt with dementia before have no clue how true dementia interferes with the patient's sleep patterns. They end up cat napping and wandering all day and night. Their sleep is not restorative like it is in a healthy person.
Dementia patients suffer from hallucinations, delusions and mood disorders. It is exhausting and overwhelming to deal with this in a home setting because there are so many things that can pose a danger to a dementia patient.
My heart goes out to Op's family.
Not all dementia patients have the above symptoms. Just FYI.