Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who knew there were so many bitter, starving PhD's out there! Maybe one of you should start an NGO for yourselves

You are an idiot. It is not bitter, it is reality. Here is a bedside reading for you from the ivory tower itself ---

https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Great-Shame-of-Our/239148

This article is only looking at one aspect of the PhD job market. If you only consider the career path from a PhD is an academic position, then yes, 80% will be a waste. But, if you dig past the tenure track position, and start focusing on humanities degrees who are looking beyond, you find that the degrees have value. For example, business who are expanding into a new market benefit from understanding the culture. And, if your dissertation is on anything relating to an adversary (e.g., china, mid-east countries, Russia, etc.), working as an Intelligence Analyst is a career choice that would utilize your expertise. I have met multiple Seniors in the IC that have PhD's in fields like history or English.

Similarly, STEM PhD's from the US, there is a huge shortage in supporting DOD and the IC.

The problem is, often the advisors are completely unaware of those opportunities. My advisor had no idea that there is an entire classified branch of our field of study.

Anonymous wrote:Who knew there were so many bitter, starving PhD's out there! Maybe one of you should start an NGO for yourselves

You are an idiot. It is not bitter, it is reality. Here is a bedside reading for you from the ivory tower itself ---

https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Great-Shame-of-Our/239148

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that only a fraction of phds work in academia.

That varies widely by field. Gender Studies vs Computer Science for example.

I am pretty sure most PhD's do not work in academia. Even gender studies...There are some organizations (e.g., gov't) that essentially value all PhD's the same. Sure, Microsoft will be more interested in someone with a PhD is CS than GS, but the Dept of Labor might not care.

In addition, many companies will look at the PhD as an indication that you can work through difficulties, and an indication that you have a good work ethic. (Both of which are extremely helpful in finishing a doctorate).

The PhD is hard work. I know. And it is emotionally draining. In essence, I had to define the problem, identify the appropriate methodology to determine an answer, conduct the research, write it up and defend it. This is true in Gender Studies and Physics. And you often have to deal with difficult people (academics are often not the best adjusted people in the world).

When applying to grad school I was interested in a PhD in history and my parents, thankfully. Suggested a PhD in a professional field with a much better career potential. My training is very different from what it would have been in history but I still get to address the same basic research topics in my interests. And job prospects were much better.

So consider whether you could address topics of interest within a discipline that has higher starting salaries.

In my field (in academia) we hire tenure track faculty regularly and pay well. But will ONLY consider candidates from about the top 20-30 programs worldwide. If someone getting a PhD at a lower ranked school applied, we probably wouldn’t even consider them. So make sure you are at a top school in your field and ask directly about their recent placement record.

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that only a fraction of phds work in academia.

That varies widely by field. Gender Studies vs Computer Science for example.

Keep in mind that only a fraction of phds work in academia.

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that the stats cited include all Ph.D's currently employed, which include many full professors in their 70s and some in their 80s. I know of at least a half dozen in this category who are earning big $$$ but they got tenure long before the current trend of hiring adjuncts to teach all undergraduate courses.
Look at data for PhD's in their 30s and 40s for a realistic view.

Not only that, it's across all PhDs, not just social sciences. Sure, if you get a PhD in engineering or computer science, you're going to have a big salary -- you'll get a job working at Google or some place like that.

I say look at it this way -- show me any social science PhD-granting department in the country. I guarantee you they are graduating more PhDs every year than they are advertising job openings for PhDs in the same department. It's a massive over-supply of PhDs, while not creating the demand for them.

Keep in mind that the stats cited include all Ph.D's currently employed, which include many full professors in their 70s and some in their 80s. I know of at least a half dozen in this category who are earning big $$$ but they got tenure long before the current trend of hiring adjuncts to teach all undergraduate courses.
Look at data for PhD's in their 30s and 40s for a realistic view.

I have also advised my son not to pursue a PhD in humanities. Unless you are a rock star in your field it's a bad bet.

Anonymous wrote:What is interesting is to look at BLS statistics (https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm)

People with the highest degrees have the lowest unemployment rate and highest salaries (ok, prof. degrees are higher than doctoral degrees in salary).
But, PhD's have a 1.5% unemployment rate, and $1743*52=90636 median salary.

You might not be able to directly work in your field but the analytical approaches you learn will have broad applications.

These statistics are usually based on some pretty old data. The current trend shows a lot of underpaid, overeducated PhD's taking work as adjuncts, basically working part time with no benefits and no hope of ever getting an actual faculty appointment (adjuncts aren't even considered). Only those who bring in big research grants get onto tenure track these days. There's not a ton of research $ for gender studies. I think the parents have a point.

As an aside, I was law school-bound when a prof whom I asked for a rec promised one on the condition that I apply to PhD programs as well. His argument: “They’ll pay you to go to school and if you don’t like it, you can always quit. At which point you could still go to law school. No one looks back on their life and says ‘Damn, I wish I’d spent more of my 20s practicing law!’” Substitute “engineering” for “law” and you’re probably in a similar place (except I probably found law more appealing than you find engineering).

In addition to the already-given advice re not self-funding a PhD and making sure your program/advisor can place people, I’d add that when you make a self-indulgent (vs a practical) choice, you should remember that — and feel free to change course if/when you cease to feel indulged. Don’t look on walking away as failure or giving up or a sign you’ve wasted your time. See it as taking what you need/want/value from the experience and then moving on to take on some new project/adventure. One tenured prof I know is now a chef, another’s in veterinary school (both took early retirement). A couple others are artists. My dissertation advisor had a side career as a novelist. Basically academia attracts and to some extent enables lifelong learners and you may end up somewhere different than you anticipated.

Yah, it is a joy ride to be female in the U S:

"3 American women are murdered every day by their husband or boyfriend."


"Rape prevalence among women in the U.S. (the percentage of women who experienced rape at least once in their lifetime so far) is in the range of 15–20% according to different studies"


"On an average day, 22 percent of men reported doing housework—such as cleaning or doing laundry—compared with 50 percent of women. Forty-three percent of men did food preparation or cleanup activities versus 70 percent of women. (Data are from the 2015 survey)."


"An estimated 24.7 million children (33%) live absent their biological father." Source: U.S. Census Bureau