Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose nieces and nephews in Ashburn are on their third year of having a long term sub because LCPS couldn't fill a position...well, idiot, of course they do quit. That is why there is a critical shortage of teachers in this country.

What I find confounding is that for all of let the market drive things...teacher wages seem to be the one thing that is uncoupled from that concept.

The other fun thing -- as a LEO -- I get my salary and overtime. But I work in a profession that is primarily male. There is an inherent sexism in education that people refuse to actually address. My DH is a DCPS teacher and his day is way, way more dangerous than mine.

My neighbor's son in 3rd grade has a long term sub this year after having one all of last year in 2nd grade. It really blew my mind! Same letter was received this year... hopeful that a permanent teacher will be found... blah, blah, blah... Ms. ____ is an excellent teacher blah blah blah.

My other neighbor is a teacher at a school in Sterling and she told me that the librarian had to cover a classroom one day because no sub could be found.

This. If we want to make teaching attractive, they have to pay more. Honestly, if they adopted the overtime system that we have as law enforcement officers, it would probably make the job worth it for way, way more people fwiw.

What overtime system are you referring to? The one where LEO’s working on a holiday get OT (as in those holidays when teachers are not working because school is closed)

Or the kind of overtime where a LEO picks up an extra shift and gets OT?

LEO here. We stick to our scheduled hours. If we go over our hours due to work (for example stuck at a scene of an incident) we get time and half. This happens so much that I usually make an additional 50-75K a year on top of my normal salary (which is still a bit higher than my DH's who is a DCPS teacher). If I am asked to do anything outside of contract hours, I get time and half as well.

I also have a much, much more generous pension and I can retire 10 years before DH and be eligible to take advantage of it.

DH is expected to put in time beyond his contract hours to keep his job. He likes teaching, but it's definitely not a fair situation. I remain convinced it's because I work in a field with mostly men who wouldn't put up with this sort of treatment and he's in a field full of women. Pure sexism. You don't see threads about cutting pay for LEOs. There's a reason, people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to the above comments, it’s what they’re trained to do...it’s what they know and are presumably good at. What do you propose they do instead when their degree is in teaching?

That’s fine. But:

Why go to school to become a teacher when it’s common knowledge they are an underpaid profession? And then complain constantly.

If it is such a passion, then don’t complain.

Is this not true? I mean, sure teachers should make more, I agree, but they’ve been complaining about it since I was in school 20 years ago. Nothing has changed so the complaining has been for nothing. Tax payers don’t want to pay more.

So either be a teacher because it’s a passion, fully knowing you’ll be underpaid, or stop complaining.

Speaking for myself, I don't complain about the pay because yes I was well aware of it before I decided to become a teacher. I figured summers off were worth it. What does massively depress me is the amount of hours that this job takes. I didn't bargain for that. And yes, I heard teachers complain about being overworked but truthfully I just assumed they were exaggerating.

ETA, I always find it a little strange when teachers complain about lack of pay, like non-teachers I think to myself "Gee didn't you know it before going into this profession?" What I complain about and believe this is well warranted is the lack of planning time. I think many people who go into teaching do not truly understand what kind of hours teachers have to put in. Yes, we get a lot of time off too, but for the majority of time we're putting in 12 hour days and that's just too much when trying to raise a family and have a life of your own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to the above comments, it’s what they’re trained to do...it’s what they know and are presumably good at. What do you propose they do instead when their degree is in teaching?

That’s fine. But:

Why go to school to become a teacher when it’s common knowledge they are an underpaid profession? And then complain constantly.

If it is such a passion, then don’t complain.

Is this not true? I mean, sure teachers should make more, I agree, but they’ve been complaining about it since I was in school 20 years ago. Nothing has changed so the complaining has been for nothing. Tax payers don’t want to pay more.

So either be a teacher because it’s a passion, fully knowing you’ll be underpaid, or stop complaining.

Speaking for myself, I don't complain about the pay because yes I was well aware of it before I decided to become a teacher. I figured summers off were worth it. What does massively depress me is the amount of hours that this job takes. I didn't bargain for that. And yes, I heard teachers complain about being overworked but truthfully I just assumed they were exaggerating.

Anonymous wrote:If they don't get the respect and income they think they deserve, why stay?

As a teacher, I'll answer this. Because there's nothing else I can do without going back to school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose nieces and nephews in Ashburn are on their third year of having a long term sub because LCPS couldn't fill a position...well, idiot, of course they do quit. That is why there is a critical shortage of teachers in this country.

What I find confounding is that for all of let the market drive things...teacher wages seem to be the one thing that is uncoupled from that concept.

The other fun thing -- as a LEO -- I get my salary and overtime. But I work in a profession that is primarily male. There is an inherent sexism in education that people refuse to actually address. My DH is a DCPS teacher and his day is way, way more dangerous than mine.

My neighbor's son in 3rd grade has a long term sub this year after having one all of last year in 2nd grade. It really blew my mind! Same letter was received this year... hopeful that a permanent teacher will be found... blah, blah, blah... Ms. ____ is an excellent teacher blah blah blah.

My other neighbor is a teacher at a school in Sterling and she told me that the librarian had to cover a classroom one day because no sub could be found.

This. If we want to make teaching attractive, they have to pay more. Honestly, if they adopted the overtime system that we have as law enforcement officers, it would probably make the job worth it for way, way more people fwiw.

What overtime system are you referring to? The one where LEO’s working on a holiday get OT (as in those holidays when teachers are not working because school is closed)

Or the kind of overtime where a LEO picks up an extra shift and gets OT?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many wouldn't have other, better options.

I've posted before about this. I am really appreciative of teachers, but I think the majority graduated at the bottom of their class (bottom 25%). And from my experience ,the vast majority of teachers would have a very, very hard time transitioning into other "normal" work.

Hi. Teacher here. I graduated at the top of my class. And yes, please, go on and tell me how easy my degree was.....I love it when people do that. From my experience, the vast majority of non teachers would have a very, very hard time transitioning into the classroom.

Can you imagine all the people who post here about not being able to handle their own (few) children actually teaching a classroom full of kids? I don't understand how people don't understand that people have different skills in life. Some people have the skills to be a teacher. Some people have the skills to be a salesperson. More often than not, the teacher wouldn't be successful at sales and the salesperson wouldn't be successful at teaching. Different skill sets. One is not better or worse than the other, just different. It's the snobs on here who belittle people who have a different skill set than their own that are the problem. It stems from their own insecurities and makes them feel better about themselves to put others down. And we wonder how kids learn to bully others. I would love to know why if teaching is such a cushy job with adequate pay and an amazing schedule why people aren't quitting their own jobs in droves to become a teacher? Why isn't that happening?

Anonymous wrote:I stay because I have a child to support. Every year, I think about leaving because working in a high poverty school is exhausting. Not too many FT jobs in ESOL in wealthy schools. I love teaching and I love my students but I cannot and do not want to be everything to them. I just want to be their teacher. I am pretty sure that is all that is expected of my friends who teach in wealthy schools. They aren't expected to fill the parental gap.

Are we the same person? I agree word for word. --another ESOL teacher in a high poverty school

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers have the same frustration as so many in the middle class. Wage stagnation, demands for more productivity, pensions being attacked, increasing health insurance costs. I'm in that rut but I only get three weeks of vacation a year, not 12-15.

It's not vacation. It's an unpaid furlough. Teachers have a contract that states how many days per year that they are required to work.

This must be such a shock and surprise to teachers. If only they had known this before they went to college for teaching!

I'm pointing out that the "vacation" days are unpaid. Some people think that teachers get lots of paid vacation time.

NP here and unless I'm misunderstanding something this seems like a meaningless distinction. You have an annual salary that is paid over the course of the school year and, apparently, not paid during the summer. Why does that matter? The salary is still the salary and you're getting some portion of the summer off.

It's not a meaningless distinction. It's the same thing as if you took a half time job, where you were supposed to work 8 - 12 every day, with a salary that matched the position's hours, and other people complained that you worked full time and got paid vacation time every afternoon. Wouldn't you say "actually I'm not full time? I'm not contracted for those hours?" I work 195 days. My salary covers 195 days worth of pay. On other days I am not paid. A typical professional employee like the one above who gets 3 weeks of vacation, and 10 federal holidays is paid for 236 - 237 days.

Anonymous wrote:I hear this argument a LOT re: teacher pay. "But they only work 36 weeks out of the year!!!!! Whine, whine, whine."

Here's my thought. Forget summer camps or summer jobs or summer volunteering to pad that college resume. Kids should be in school 48/52 weeks a year. And then teachers should all get a 20% increase in pay. Time to raise property taxes. I'm a teacher and I'm in.

Yes. With stricter attendance rules. Holidays that take kids out of class would be unexcused absences, and a certain number of those mean expulsion. Make education a serious business.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose nieces and nephews in Ashburn are on their third year of having a long term sub because LCPS couldn't fill a position...well, idiot, of course they do quit. That is why there is a critical shortage of teachers in this country.

What I find confounding is that for all of let the market drive things...teacher wages seem to be the one thing that is uncoupled from that concept.

The other fun thing -- as a LEO -- I get my salary and overtime. But I work in a profession that is primarily male. There is an inherent sexism in education that people refuse to actually address. My DH is a DCPS teacher and his day is way, way more dangerous than mine.

My neighbor's son in 3rd grade has a long term sub this year after having one all of last year in 2nd grade. It really blew my mind! Same letter was received this year... hopeful that a permanent teacher will be found... blah, blah, blah... Ms. ____ is an excellent teacher blah blah blah.

My other neighbor is a teacher at a school in Sterling and she told me that the librarian had to cover a classroom one day because no sub could be found.

This. If we want to make teaching attractive, they have to pay more. Honestly, if they adopted the overtime system that we have as law enforcement officers, it would probably make the job worth it for way, way more people fwiw.

Won’t haopen until teachers are predominately male.

I hear this argument a LOT re: teacher pay. "But they only work 36 weeks out of the year!!!!! Whine, whine, whine."

Here's my thought. Forget summer camps or summer jobs or summer volunteering to pad that college resume. Kids should be in school 48/52 weeks a year. And then teachers should all get a 20% increase in pay. Time to raise property taxes. I'm a teacher and I'm in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many wouldn't have other, better options.

I've posted before about this. I am really appreciative of teachers, but I think the majority graduated at the bottom of their class (bottom 25%). And from my experience ,the vast majority of teachers would have a very, very hard time transitioning into other "normal" work.

Hi. Teacher here. I graduated at the top of my class. And yes, please, go on and tell me how easy my degree was.....I love it when people do that. From my experience, the vast majority of non teachers would have a very, very hard time transitioning into the classroom.

I just saw many teachers at a back-to-school night (high school) and was really impressed by how much they appeared to love their jobs. Even the older teachers had an energy and passion for teaching that I felt even a bit jealous. My husband said, "Imagine loving your job that much?" They deserve accolades and better pay.

I stay because I have a child to support. Every year, I think about leaving because working in a high poverty school is exhausting. Not too many FT jobs in ESOL in wealthy schools. I love teaching and I love my students but I cannot and do not want to be everything to them. I just want to be their teacher. I am pretty sure that is all that is expected of my friends who teach in wealthy schools. They aren't expected to fill the parental gap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone whose nieces and nephews in Ashburn are on their third year of having a long term sub because LCPS couldn't fill a position...well, idiot, of course they do quit. That is why there is a critical shortage of teachers in this country.

What I find confounding is that for all of let the market drive things...teacher wages seem to be the one thing that is uncoupled from that concept.

The other fun thing -- as a LEO -- I get my salary and overtime. But I work in a profession that is primarily male. There is an inherent sexism in education that people refuse to actually address. My DH is a DCPS teacher and his day is way, way more dangerous than mine.

My neighbor's son in 3rd grade has a long term sub this year after having one all of last year in 2nd grade. It really blew my mind! Same letter was received this year... hopeful that a permanent teacher will be found... blah, blah, blah... Ms. ____ is an excellent teacher blah blah blah.

My other neighbor is a teacher at a school in Sterling and she told me that the librarian had to cover a classroom one day because no sub could be found.

This. If we want to make teaching attractive, they have to pay more. Honestly, if they adopted the overtime system that we have as law enforcement officers, it would probably make the job worth it for way, way more people fwiw.