Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

Most public schools are stretched for special education resources. If your school is asking to be allowed to give your child some portion of their already very limited resources, that means they see a serious issue. Private schools aren’t going to do that for your child. If your child gets into one and these issues continue, expect to be counseled out after a year or two.

Separate from that, does your son have friends at school? Does he get invited for play dates by his peers? Does he get invited to birthday parties that aren’t all-class parties? If so, that’s a good sign. If not, that can be an indicator that his behavioral issues are interfering with his ability to connect socially with peers, in which case it’s important for his emotional health that you figure out what’s going on and get him help.

I have seen this movie before. The school's likely next move will be to start making office referrals and suspending your son for "persistent disruption" in order to (pick any one of the following) punish your son, get your attention, inconvenience you until you listen to what they're saying, or give his teachers/classmates a break. And time spent out of the classroom in gen ed disciplinary proceedings DOES affect his education. Without the protection of an IEP, they have to treat him like every other student. Somehow I suspect you want him treated academically and socially like every other student but when it comes to the behavior, you won't like it when they crack down.

Special Ed written all over this and private school will not accomodate. Let them evaluate and tease out what’s going on. Teachers know these things. Special Ed is not just what you think. It’s a protection for your child and it doesn’t go away with age either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

Why is having something wrong with your brain that causes delays in speaking or reading a disability but having something wrong with your brain that affects behavior not?

OP. Once more, the teacher would not be asking for help if the problem is only "immaturity." I taught first grade and K. I recognize that some children are slower to mature than others. But, "immaturity" alone does not disrupt a class.

You keep acknowledging that your child is disruptive, but is not dangerous. The fact that he does not hurt others is great, but if he is constantly disrupting the class, then no one is benefiting.

I'd love for you to share what the problem is. Tantrums? Defiance? Crying? What is it? Any of those can be quite time consuming and disruptive. If he is just sitting there and daydreaming (which some immature kids do), I think it is unlikely that the teacher considers him disruptive.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

Why is having something wrong with your brain that causes delays in speaking or reading a disability but having something wrong with your brain that affects behavior not?

[quote=Anonymous]OP here. We have worked a lot with DC and there has been much improvement since kinder. But this is FIRST grade and immaturity should not come as a surprise. There have been other children recently being pushed into special ed as part of what seems like a wave at the school. But my intention was to ask a much broader question. Allow me to rephrase:

[b]Do you think a school should be able to use special education as a tool to segregate the well behaved from the ill behaved if there is no danger of physical harm? [/b] Yes I understand the argument of affecting others. But special education was never intended as a tool to "help others". Perhaps something else should be in place for that like a BMP? Thanks.[/quote]

Yes. Yes, I do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so the OP doesn't want to get that her child's behavior disruption is significant enough that the teachers want to get him/her help and also that it's clearly disrupting her child and the whole class's education.... and that there are ways to help with it. And she's living in some stone age where she's upset about feeling someone labeling her child as 'disabled' (ie. flawed, stupid, etc)

Or else she's concerned that the school is pathologizing normal child behavior.

That's not what she wrote. All she disclosed about the actual behavior is that it is disruptive but "non-violent." Does not sound like normal behavior.

OP did not provide enough detail to know either way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so the OP doesn't want to get that her child's behavior disruption is significant enough that the teachers want to get him/her help and also that it's clearly disrupting her child and the whole class's education.... and that there are ways to help with it. And she's living in some stone age where she's upset about feeling someone labeling her child as 'disabled' (ie. flawed, stupid, etc)

Or else she's concerned that the school is pathologizing normal child behavior.

That's not what she wrote. All she disclosed about the actual behavior is that it is disruptive but "non-violent." Does not sound like normal behavior.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

OP, my child is in the Asperger's program in MCPS. Academically--he has no issues. He is above grade level in reading comprehension, his ability to infer meaning, predict outcomes, and can summarize a story very well. He's in 3rd grade. Math---consistently above grade level and scored in the 99th percentile on the MAP test last year. He loves social studies and can make the connections between historical events and current events. Science is fascinating to him---balls and motion, the solar system, he loves it and understands it. If all school was was academics, then you're right, he should not have support services.

But---he is easily overwhelmed and can meltdown at the drop of a hat. Academics come easy to him IF you can get him to engage. If you can't, well, then he's just disruptive. He will hide under his desk. He will refuse to do his work. He will not line up for specials and follow the class. He will just sit down in the hall and not move. There is no way that a teacher in a mainstream classroom could handle him and the rest of the class. His needs are not academic but behavioral. He has a low tolerance for frustration, is impulsive, and gets stuck. Once he's stuck, the only way for him to get unstuck is to go through the meltdown.

He doesn't hit others. He doesn't throw things. But if he just decides to sit down in the middle of the line moving from classroom to lunch, that is disruptive to the other students. The teacher cannot take the other students onto lunch and leave him sitting in the hall. Mainstream public school is not 1:1 teaching. It is educating the masses and everyone participating has to do their part.

In the self contained classroom, there is a higher ratio of teachers to students and my sons teacher works closely with his therapeutic team. They all use the same language with him. Do you think a mainstream classroom teacher has the time to learn the words that need to be used a child in order to get them unstuck? She learns the language for each child in her classroom since they all have different therapists and use different words and strategies. A mainstream private school would not be any better. An SN private school would be a consideration but the MCPS program (if you can get in) is amazing and since I'm already paying for multiple therapies, any place I can save money is worth it.

As kids get older, children who do not behave according to classroom norms, become the outlier children. No matter how inclusive our society becomes, children are still learning and for the most part, they don't choose to be friends with the kid who still has a temper tantrum and acts like a 3yr old in 3rd grade. This become a self esteem issue for the SN child. My child doesn't want to behave like that and he intellectually knows what he is doing is inappropriate. But he doesn't have the skills yet to stop. But in his self contained classroom, he is "normal". Everyone has similar issues---they may not manifest the same, but everyone in class has issues. He's just one of the gang.

I am grateful that my child is in the SN program and gets the amazing behavioral support that he needs. He will grow and develop at a pace that is right for him. School is about academics but it's also about learning to deal in the world around you. Right now, academics are the least of my concerns for my child. He's got that covered. But if he can't learn to handle the world around him, intelligent or not, he is going to have a very hard life.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

OP, I think the thing that you don't understand is that there are plenty of children who struggle academically because of disabilities that present as behavior problems. It's like you think that special education services are only for kids with cognitive delays or intellectual disabilities and not for children whose disabilities make it difficult for them to access the curriculum and/or are disrupting other students' access to the curriculum. A child with ADHD that causes the child difficulty in focusing on his or her work may present with behavior problems only, and while you may think that the child doesn't have any trouble accessing the curriculum, that is likely not the case. It is not a question of whether the child has the capacity to understand the material, which is what you seem to think.

I was a school social worker who was responsible for recommending behavioral support components of many IEPs. In my experience, it is usually difficult to get an IEP for a student who would benefit from IEP accommodations and services if that student presents with behavioral problems and no academic ones. That is what the teachers and SPED parents on this thread are telling you. The likelihood that your son's issues are more severe than you believe is a lot higher than the likelihood that the school is tracking him into SPED in order to avoid dealing with his behavior problems.

That said, I worked with a first grade boy who had an IEP and an autism spectrum diagnosis, and there was definitely a meaningful difference in his ability to access the curriculum between teachers. One of his teachers was able to work very productively with him and the other one became easily frustrated and was not able to get him to focus. So it's possible that your son's teacher just sucks. If that is the case, your son will likely benefit from working with a SPED teacher as they are usually much more experienced in managing behavior problems in general.

Anonymous wrote:so the OP doesn't want to get that her child's behavior disruption is significant enough that the teachers want to get him/her help and also that it's clearly disrupting her child and the whole class's education.... and that there are ways to help with it. And she's living in some stone age where she's upset about feeling someone labeling her child as 'disabled' (ie. flawed, stupid, etc)

Or else she's concerned that the school is pathologizing normal child behavior.

so the OP doesn't want to get that her child's behavior disruption is significant enough that the teachers want to get him/her help and also that it's clearly disrupting her child and the whole class's education.... and that there are ways to help with it. And she's living in some stone age where she's upset about feeling someone labeling her child as 'disabled' (ie. flawed, stupid, etc)

OP,

A child who is disrupting other children is disrupting his own education. ALL teachers use some type of behavior modification program to ensure that the class runs smoothly and NO teacher would begin the tedious and time consuming procedure to refer and get help for the child unless it is needed.

What is the harm? Why the reluctance?

Anonymous wrote:OP what are they offering?
Supports in the general ed classroom? Take it.
Or are they pushing you out to a special day class or just out of the school, claiming they can’t provide the support you need?

I don't think OP even knows. She's just freaking out that they've suggested an assessment for her kid and doesn't even have any concept of what the supports might be, because she's ignorant and prejudiced against kids with disabilities.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses (mostly). I did not intend to seem like I was asking advice for my personal situation. I was trying to ask a more general question based on trends I see in my child's school and in many other schools as well. But it seems regardless many of you think a special education designation should be applied for mere behavior problems to minimize disruptions to others and maybe help the offending child too.

But at least a few see things as I do-that special education should be reserved for children who struggle academically due to disability. After all, if school standards are being raised, extra support and behavior management techniques should be standard for the general education classroom to deal with all the variations of normal. Children shouldnt be suddenly classified as "disabled" just because Kinder is the new first grade.

As for my personal situation, we will continue working on the issues at home and waiting for maturity to kick in. If there is not enough improvement by 2nd grade, private school might be our best option.

Food for thought:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kars4kids.org/blog/when-to-keep-your-child-out-of-special-education/amp/

Again, thanks for the different pespectives.

I .... think you still aren't getting it. Despite NUMEROUS posts pointing this out, getting an IEP does not mean being placed in a separate classroom. Behaviors that seriously disrupt a child's ability to access the curriculum are almost by definition worthy of an IEP and additional support. An IEP is THE WAY to get the additional support for serious behavioral problems. Now, I think it's true that classroom management and other external factors can CAUSE or exacerbate bad behavior, and that schools should have behavioral management supports on tap and not wait for the IEP process. But, a kid who's severely disruptive almost certainly has an underlying issue, not just "immaturity."

Also, on what planet do you think you're going to get into a private school with a history of disruptive behavior on the part of your child AND your own failure to cooperate with teachers/admins? You realize that private schools require recommendations from current teachers, and that includes factors relating to the parent and child's behaviors? You might get into a special needs school or a Catholic school. But just "going private" is not a snap of the fingers for kids with learning/behavioral issues at the level of seriousness your child apparently has.

And to answer your question: if a school were aggressively and quickly pursuing special education supports for every child with serious behavioral issues, I'd say GOOD FOR THAT SCHOOL. Again, that does not mean they're putting all kids into self-contained classroom, but rather getting support in general ed.