Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 10:29     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


Horse feathers! Why did they divorce if he's vso wonderful. He can visit the grave by himself. Something is going on.


Did you actually read the thread? It's a girlfriend from college. They were not married and he's not hung up. Nothing is going on.


You don't know that he's not hung up. You really don't.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 10:29     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


Horse feathers! Why did they divorce if he's vso wonderful. He can visit the grave by himself. Something is going on.


Did you actually read the thread? It's a girlfriend from college. They were not married and he's not hung up. Nothing is going on.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 10:28     Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.

I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.


Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?

I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.


....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.


I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".


I sincerely doubt your credentials. OPs DH is not going through a 'grieving process'. He's stuck in grief. And, his 'grief' is interfering with the relationship he has with his wife - who is also the mother of his living children. At the very least, these feelings should be explored in counseling - which you don't think is necessary. Appalling and shows a stunning lack of knowledge and experience.



Grief is a life long process. The OP doesn't say that her husband dwells on the death of his child every day. She said that once a year, on the day of the child's death, her husband and the child's mom meet at the gravesite for a time to mourn. She doesn't say that it's affecting their relationship other than that she wants to be part of his aspect of his life and is disappointed that he doesn't want her involved in it.

I'm a counselor and I actually think that the DH's ritual with his ex is perfectly fine. I think that the OP would prefer that her husband be a little more open with his feelings about this event with her, which is understandable, but if her husband doesn't want to talk about it with her, that's certainly his right. OP's desire to understand how to present this to their living children is also understandable, and I think that is worth asking him about. Does he want to tell his children that he had a baby who died before he met their mom? At what age is that appropriate? What information will be appropriate to share? If her husband doesn't want to tell the children at all, are there any aspects of the child's death that might be relevant to his living children that should be shared (e.g., died from a genetic issue that those kids may also have or be carriers for)?
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 10:04     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Imagine how long he holds her for on the years when he knows you're not staring at them.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 09:47     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created. [/quot

Horse feathers! Why did they divorce if he's vso wonderful. He can visit the grave by himself. Something is going on.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 08:34     Subject: Excluded from mourning
No one criticizes Vietnam Vets for going to The Wall and that war was 40 years ago. Some stuff you just never get over!
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 07:15     Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
....I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".


+1. I also have worked with hindreds of families grieving lost ones. I agree with PP and would just lime to add — there is no one way to mourn. Some people have rituals - elaborate or simple, daily or yearly. Some people cry. Some people don’t. Some people visit garves. Some people don’t even have graves or bodies. Some people want to remember, others want to forget.

The best, most supportive thing we can do is listen and allow people to do whatever they need to do without judging that they are mourning correctly or incorrectly or in a healthy or unhealthy way.


-1 I've also worked with hundreds of grieving families and I disagree that it is acceptable to stand by and ignore when someone is grieving in an unhealthy way. Where did you people do your training? SMH It is not unreasonable for OP to want to understand more about her DH's grief. It is not unreasonable for her to question his turning away from her and to another woman for comfort - for 17 years! This absolutely call for working with a skilled counselor.


I think there is a big difference between unhealthy grieving and grieving in a way that makes OP uncomfortable. OP's DH and his ex have a ritual that they find comforting, it doesn't appear that they are enmeshed or have an unhealthy relationship, they just have this one moment that they share that works for both of them. If the DH was meeting up once a year with his combat buddies to honor a fallen friend, would OP also find that inappropriate and need to join in? OP should focus on forming a secure attachment with her husband so his mourning about his child doesn't bother her so much.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2018 07:09     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


No one is thinking less of him for his grief.

This thread is about questioning how healthy his manner of grieving is (which he clearly wants to only do with his ex).

I am also a man, and if you can’t tell that he clearly still has feelings for this woman, and that there is probably more to the story than OP knows, then I can’t help you. I would bet you anything that he was in love with her, but the relationship couldn’t survive the loss. Now that “real life” is in full swing, it’s even easier for him to look back on this woman and romanticize what they had. Or maybe he legit thinks he should have ended up with his ex, and would have if circumstances were different.


have you ever lost a child or parent?
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 23:03     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


No one is thinking less of him for his grief.

This thread is about questioning how healthy his manner of grieving is (which he clearly wants to only do with his ex).

I am also a man, and if you can’t tell that he clearly still has feelings for this woman, and that there is probably more to the story than OP knows, then I can’t help you. I would bet you anything that he was in love with her, but the relationship couldn’t survive the loss. Now that “real life” is in full swing, it’s even easier for him to look back on this woman and romanticize what they had. Or maybe he legit thinks he should have ended up with his ex, and would have if circumstances were different.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 22:56     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


Yes. This.


Ditto.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 22:46     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.


Yes. This.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 22:39     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Has anyone not thought, “what a good man?” As a man with two kids, I have a connection with them that started when they were inside their mother. This could tear a couple apart and the fact that he honors the life of this child tells me of his goodness and sense of responsibility for the life he created.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 21:52     Subject: Excluded from mourning
If you were confident enough in your relationship with your husband, you would be more supportive rather than suspicious of this anniversary of mourning.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 21:12     Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:OP, do you think it is possible that their relationship was closer than your DH has let on? With his intense need to grieve WITH her and not you (even after 17 years), I think it is reasonable to wonder if she meant more to him than he's let on.

I think it's possible that he or she or they both have built the relationship into a "one that got away" type thing. Few relationships survive a loss like that. I think it is possible that they were very in love, but too young to navigate such a minefield.

I suspect that he's probably downplayed the relationship and its importance to you.



Geez, what is wrong with you people. I have a super crappy relationship with my DH (verge of divorce) but if god forbid we lost our child I can completely understand wanting to commemorate the memory with him.
Anonymous
Post 09/03/2018 21:05     Subject: Excluded from mourning
OP, do you think it is possible that their relationship was closer than your DH has let on? With his intense need to grieve WITH her and not you (even after 17 years), I think it is reasonable to wonder if she meant more to him than he's let on.

I think it's possible that he or she or they both have built the relationship into a "one that got away" type thing. Few relationships survive a loss like that. I think it is possible that they were very in love, but too young to navigate such a minefield.

I suspect that he's probably downplayed the relationship and its importance to you.