Anonymous
Post 08/25/2018 05:00     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
^^^This worked out well at our school that year FWIW. They didn't have an extra section for math but they did do pull outs once a week for enrichment and for remedial help so all the kids got a little extra attention. I liked the variety in teachers and I think DD benefited from the different teaching styles.
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2018 04:56     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:The MCPS Board rejected a request from the principal of my child's ES for additional staffing for the 18-19 school year. So, given current enrollment numbers, there are going to be 30-31 students in my child's fourth grade class, as well as in a few other grades, which exceeds MCPS's own guidelines. And typically we get a few additional students in the class during the school year, so that number will get even higher. Do other MCPS ES classrooms have 30+ students?


This is disturbing and new. It's been pretty unusual to go into the school year already exceeding the recommendations which I think is 29 for 4th grade. It's not uncommon for them to end the year at those numbers due to more children moving in during the school year. Have you talked to the principal about whether she has thought about mixed-grade level classes? Sometimes if the year above or below, in this case 3rd or 5th, has smaller classes they have some room to rearrange things. Adding a "class" for key subjects could also help. One year when our DD ended up with the max they ended up pulling 5 kids from each class to make an extra section for writing and reading. In terms of staffing this should be doable as even an administrator or a sub could teach this for 1-1.5 hours a day.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 22:15     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:I have never seen a class that size at our ES. I thought there was a cap of 27 students per class, but maybe i’m mistaken.


The cap is whatever they say it is.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 22:11     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One advantage of DCPS over MCPS for ES is class size. My kids are at an upper NW ES and have around 21-23 kids, Lower grades have an aide too.


And there are often two adults since PTAs can fund aides. MoCo prohibits this based on notions of equity and not wanting to worsen the achievement gap, although this measure only stunts the achievement of better performing schools and doesn't actually help anyone in schools that are struggling.


MCPS prohibits this on the basis of equity, full stop. And rightfully so.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 22:02     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:One advantage of DCPS over MCPS for ES is class size. My kids are at an upper NW ES and have around 21-23 kids, Lower grades have an aide too.


All DCPS ESs, or just the DCPS ESs in upper NW?


I can only speak from my personal experience. I believe DCPS pays for the aid/partner teacher for PK and maybe K.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 22:00     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:One advantage of DCPS over MCPS for ES is class size. My kids are at an upper NW ES and have around 21-23 kids, Lower grades have an aide too.


And there are often two adults since PTAs can fund aides. MoCo prohibits this based on notions of equity and not wanting to worsen the achievement gap, although this measure only stunts the achievement of better performing schools and doesn't actually help anyone in schools that are struggling.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 21:48     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:One advantage of DCPS over MCPS for ES is class size. My kids are at an upper NW ES and have around 21-23 kids, Lower grades have an aide too.


All DCPS ESs, or just the DCPS ESs in upper NW?
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 21:44     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
One advantage of DCPS over MCPS for ES is class size. My kids are at an upper NW ES and have around 21-23 kids, Lower grades have an aide too.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 21:34     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We moved to the Bethesda area a month ago and were shocked to hear from the principal that classes had 28-29 kids, one class had 30 kids. This is not what appears on the website and what we were told. We moved from an area in the Midwest with decent public schools and never more than 22-23 kids in elementary. I was an educator in my "first career" and there are reams of research on why this is bad for many reasons. No advanced nation with good schools has classes this big since it is well-known that small class sizes are much better for kids.

Is it worth talking to the Principal about this? Or the PTA?

Could anyone help point me in the right direction of who I should email?


OP, I agree with you and I'm sorry you've had this surprise. Your best bet would be the Board of Ed and your local elected officials, or those up for election. CC the State Superintendent of Education. You're preaching to the choir with the PTA and Principal - these decisions are made way above their heads.


Principals have no power in MCPS--they're just middle managers. I don't say that in a mean way, it's just the way the system operates now. A few are connected to people at the top and have a bit more sway, but those tend to be the ones who've cycled in and out of central. When I first started working in the county, there were principals who everyone knew broke rules left and right and got away with it. Not many like that, but at least a few. I don't see any principals doing that these days. Administrator morale is way down, too. I think it's become too clubby with the favored few at the top, then just kind of broken as you go down.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 21:00     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:We moved to the Bethesda area a month ago and were shocked to hear from the principal that classes had 28-29 kids, one class had 30 kids. This is not what appears on the website and what we were told. We moved from an area in the Midwest with decent public schools and never more than 22-23 kids in elementary. I was an educator in my "first career" and there are reams of research on why this is bad for many reasons. No advanced nation with good schools has classes this big since it is well-known that small class sizes are much better for kids.

Is it worth talking to the Principal about this? Or the PTA?

Could anyone help point me in the right direction of who I should email?


OP, I agree with you and I'm sorry you've had this surprise. Your best bet would be the Board of Ed and your local elected officials, or those up for election. CC the State Superintendent of Education. You're preaching to the choir with the PTA and Principal - these decisions are made way above their heads.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 20:53     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:We moved to the Bethesda area a month ago and were shocked to hear from the principal that classes had 28-29 kids, one class had 30 kids. This is not what appears on the website and what we were told. We moved from an area in the Midwest with decent public schools and never more than 22-23 kids in elementary. I was an educator in my "first career" and there are reams of research on why this is bad for many reasons. No advanced nation with good schools has classes this big since it is well-known that small class sizes are much better for kids.

Is it worth talking to the Principal about this? Or the PTA?

Could anyone help point me in the right direction of who I should email?


I don't think there is much the principal can do. Or the PTA. MCPS doesn't allow the PTAs to fund extra staff.

It's just the way it is, unfortunately.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 20:00     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
You see more and more.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 19:52     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:We moved to the Bethesda area a month ago and were shocked to hear from the principal that classes had 28-29 kids, one class had 30 kids. This is not what appears on the website and what we were told. We moved from an area in the Midwest with decent public schools and never more than 22-23 kids in elementary. I was an educator in my "first career" and there are reams of research on why this is bad for many reasons. No advanced nation with good schools has classes this big since it is well-known that small class sizes are much better for kids.

Is it worth talking to the Principal about this? Or the PTA?

Could anyone help point me in the right direction of who I should email?


I sympathize and agree with you, but nothing is going to change. It’s honestly pointless to try.
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 19:50     Subject: Re:Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
We moved to the Bethesda area a month ago and were shocked to hear from the principal that classes had 28-29 kids, one class had 30 kids. This is not what appears on the website and what we were told. We moved from an area in the Midwest with decent public schools and never more than 22-23 kids in elementary. I was an educator in my "first career" and there are reams of research on why this is bad for many reasons. No advanced nation with good schools has classes this big since it is well-known that small class sizes are much better for kids.

Is it worth talking to the Principal about this? Or the PTA?

Could anyone help point me in the right direction of who I should email?
Anonymous
Post 08/24/2018 19:44     Subject: Is it common to have 30+ kids in class in MCPS ES?
Anonymous wrote:Yes, you can, and the good ones do (lived through it). Get a teacher for a grade rather than a reading initiative teacher. But really, it's all a numbers game. If they are above 30 by March, nbd. No school should start the year with those kids of numbers. I would be on the phone with Board of Ed member and writing to Dr Smith and Dr Zuckerman with every Board member copied about how the large class size is unacceptable.

UNLESS your school is already overcapacity, there are no available additional classrooms, and there is no room on the site for additional portables. That would be the ONLY excuse acceptable, and MCPS had better have a plan in place to address it by the next year, or I would make myself the biggest PITA they've ever seen.

Agree with OP who said they are disappointed they moved here for the schools that are supposed to be so good only to find out they are not. Overcrowding, disastrous curriculum, abuse, lack of discipline, etc., etc.


NP here. Our oversubscribed school did this last year and is doing this again. Instead of getting another teacher, they get a reading initiative teacher. It's not the same. Why do they do this? How can we fight this?