Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).

Are you a vegan? Do you think most people responding are vegans?

Yes, I am, but so what? That has nothing to do with the original argument. Please google "straw man", then try again.

I am not op and wouldn't declaw a cat but those wanting to make op a pariah do lose a lot of credibility if they are moaning abt secretly miserable (yet happy and healthy appearing) cats while munching on a factory farmed burger. I'm glad you are a vegan but most of those responding likely aren't and they are hypocrites.

We don't eat cats. We keep them as pets. Burgers are delicious. Declawing a pet is inhumane. These things are all true.

Anonymous wrote:DP. If I take a cat into my home, provide it with food, shelter, love, and medical care, then in return it will not scratch me or my furniture. Some cats are trainable, some aren't. The ones that aren't, then that's the time for declawing.

So don't get a cat. Cats have claws. Get a pet that doesn't have claws.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

An already skittish cat which has its primary means of defense removed experiences no additional stress? Not sure who taught that class, but that makes no sense. I suppose they told you that surgery doesn't cause pain or stress either.

DP. It makes sense to me. Surgery is a one-time stressor, not a chronic or repeated one. And animals and people adapt to changed physical characteristics. It may take time, but it happens.

The surgery we are discussing is one of multiple amputations. Amputating the first digits of all of a cat's front toes changes the way the cat bears weight on its paws, which leads to health issues and most likely pain. SOME surgery is a one-time stressor, but not multiple amputations. Surely you can see that?

DP. If I take a cat into my home, provide it with food, shelter, love, and medical care, then in return it will not scratch me or my furniture. Some cats are trainable, some aren't. The ones that aren't, then that's the time for declawing.

Anonymous wrote:And more to the point, even if any particular PP is vegan, if they are a responsible cat owner, their cats are not vegan (I say responsible because cats are obligate carnivores and cannot thrive on a vegan diet). The animals that those cats are eating probably either had crap lives and deaths if they were terrestrial (e.g., chicken) or their removal from the ecosystem is unsustainable (e.g., wild-caught fish) or their rearing is unsustainable (e.g., farmed fish). \

But pet owners of all stripes are quite good at suppressing the cognitive dissonance and believing that all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

I don't believe that all animals are equal. So what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).

Are you a vegan? Do you think most people responding are vegans?

Yes, I am, but so what? That has nothing to do with the original argument. Please google "straw man", then try again.

I am not op and wouldn't declaw a cat but those wanting to make op a pariah do lose a lot of credibility if they are moaning abt secretly miserable (yet happy and healthy appearing) cats while munching on a factory farmed burger. I'm glad you are a vegan but most of those responding likely aren't and they are hypocrites.

Again, this has nothing to do with the original argument, which is that declawing cats is inhumane. Whether or not the cat owners are meat-eaters or hypocrites or racists or cannibals, or just general terrible people, does NOT change the validity of the original argument, which is that declawing is cruel to the cat. You are utilizing an ad hominem strategy, as well as various straw man construction attempts, and this is what people do when they find it impossible to defend their original argument: can you craft a defense that ONLY addresses the initial argument? No, which is why you are attempting strategies of diversion.

So what if a cat owner believes their cat to be "above" a cow? That is NOT THE ARGUMENT HERE. Does it make them hypocritical? Yes, possibly, but their hypocrisy does not change the fact that declawing is cruel to cats, and that anyone who cares about CATS will not declaw them. If I say that cutting off your leg is cruel, do you think that the fact that I might be a racist/cannibal/terrible person changes the fact that cutting off your leg is cruel? See how that works?

Some basic rhetorical strategy and study of logical fallacies would strengthen the pro-declawing arguments considerably. Just address the original argument...if you can.

And more to the point, even if any particular PP is vegan, if they are a responsible cat owner, their cats are not vegan (I say responsible because cats are obligate carnivores and cannot thrive on a vegan diet). The animals that those cats are eating probably either had crap lives and deaths if they were terrestrial (e.g., chicken) or their removal from the ecosystem is unsustainable (e.g., wild-caught fish) or their rearing is unsustainable (e.g., farmed fish). \

But pet owners of all stripes are quite good at suppressing the cognitive dissonance and believing that all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).

Are you a vegan? Do you think most people responding are vegans?

Yes, I am, but so what? That has nothing to do with the original argument. Please google "straw man", then try again.

I am not op and wouldn't declaw a cat but those wanting to make op a pariah do lose a lot of credibility if they are moaning abt secretly miserable (yet happy and healthy appearing) cats while munching on a factory farmed burger. I'm glad you are a vegan but most of those responding likely aren't and they are hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).

Are you a vegan? Do you think most people responding are vegans?

Yes, I am, but so what? That has nothing to do with the original argument. Please google "straw man", then try again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

An already skittish cat which has its primary means of defense removed experiences no additional stress? Not sure who taught that class, but that makes no sense. I suppose they told you that surgery doesn't cause pain or stress either.

DP. It makes sense to me. Surgery is a one-time stressor, not a chronic or repeated one. And animals and people adapt to changed physical characteristics. It may take time, but it happens.

Some people and animals adapt better than others, some never really adjust to life with an amputation, it is actually a pretty major ongoing change. It is certianly not less stressful than movinh homes.

What do you know about cats?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).

Are you a vegan? Do you think most people responding are vegans?

It's not an issue of the cat doesn't go outside. Ignore all the idiots in here. It's that or put the cat down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

An already skittish cat which has its primary means of defense removed experiences no additional stress? Not sure who taught that class, but that makes no sense. I suppose they told you that surgery doesn't cause pain or stress either.

DP. It makes sense to me. Surgery is a one-time stressor, not a chronic or repeated one. And animals and people adapt to changed physical characteristics. It may take time, but it happens.

Some people and animals adapt better than others, some never really adjust to life with an amputation, it is actually a pretty major ongoing change. It is certianly not less stressful than movinh homes.

Anonymous wrote:The european cat ladies are out in force on this thread.

So? What's your point? There are many Europeans who are shocked that Americans still declaw. This doesn't make them "cat ladies", but even if you did qualify the term and prove its accuracy here, so what?

Anonymous wrote:I actually had to take some courses in cat behavior, and declawing is way, way, WAY preferable to rehoming or trimming nails, especially for already-skiddish cats. Studies have found it takes cats up to a year to adjust to a new home, so that’s a year of stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc. Taking them in 1-2x a month to get their claws trimmed is also awful and will lead to chronic stress, and will likely make their behavior problems worse. Declawing, however, has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol levels or aggression long-term.

Plus, all that meat you eat? Those animals had it much, much worse than a declawed cat. Doesn’t make sense condemn some animal suffering while endorsing other suffering. Just sayin’.

1. Which "studies", exactly? I don't agree with whichever "experts" told you that declawing "has been shown to cause no increase in cortisol or aggression long-term", and neither do the veterinary authorities in the multiple countries that made declawing illegal.

2. Your "point" about eating meat (as a human) is a logical fallacy. You cannot speak with any degree of authority about the meat-eating practices of every person in your audience, or even assume with any degree of comfort that every person in your audience eats meat at all. Really stupid of you, and shows you know you don't have a real argument. (I, for example, don't eat meat).