Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:57     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the General Counsel at a small-ish govt contracts business-17 years out of law school and I only make 200k. You can't compare in house/govt salaries to big law. I would pay a junior attorney with just 4-5 years experience like you around 100k.


At that point I might as well hang a shingle and settle car accidents.


I’m in house at a large, but not F500, company in a major city (not East Coast). There are 15 lawyers in our dept and with bonuses, our starting pay is close to $200k. Our GC makes seven figures. We have an AGC that can hit seven figures on a really good year and several senior attorneys who earn around $300k.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:54     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the General Counsel at a small-ish govt contracts business-17 years out of law school and I only make 200k. You can't compare in house/govt salaries to big law. I would pay a junior attorney with just 4-5 years experience like you around 100k.


At that point I might as well hang a shingle and settle car accidents.


Sure, because there's nothing worse than making 100k with 4-5 years actual work experience.


That says more about your view of solos settling PI cases.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:53     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the General Counsel at a small-ish govt contracts business-17 years out of law school and I only make 200k. You can't compare in house/govt salaries to big law. I would pay a junior attorney with just 4-5 years experience like you around 100k.


At that point I might as well hang a shingle and settle car accidents.


Sure, because there's nothing worse than making 100k with 4-5 years actual work experience.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:50     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Thanks-so OPs only offer from a small firm was 1/3rd of around 250k? 80k-ish.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:48     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity what does a biglaw associate in the 4-5 year range make?
-not a lawyer


235-260k
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:48     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity what does a biglaw associate in the 4-5 year range make?
-not a lawyer

$260k as a 5th year (so 4 years and some change experience)
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:46     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Out of curiosity what does a biglaw associate in the 4-5 year range make?
-not a lawyer
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:44     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Gotta score a lot of car accidents in a year to clear anything close to 100k; an attorney with only 5 years experience will need to be cheap to compete with more experienced shops.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:41     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:I'm the General Counsel at a small-ish govt contracts business-17 years out of law school and I only make 200k. You can't compare in house/govt salaries to big law. I would pay a junior attorney with just 4-5 years experience like you around 100k.


At that point I might as well hang a shingle and settle car accidents.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:33     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
I'm the General Counsel at a small-ish govt contracts business-17 years out of law school and I only make 200k. You can't compare in house/govt salaries to big law. I would pay a junior attorney with just 4-5 years experience like you around 100k.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:31     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am in house and have gotten headhunter calls for jobs in MCOL and even LCOL areas that supress salaries in DC. I think the prevalence of the government payscale in DC does suppress lawyer salaries, plus it's a plain old supply/demand issue.


Sorry--SURPASS the salaries in DC, which are suppressed by the government payscales.



While I think you're right, I interviewed in a bunch of growing "hot" cities, and the salaries still weren't keeping pace with COL. Places people want to live, both big and midsize cities, expect you to give up a premium. Whereas undesirable places with cheap COL (think landlocked southeastern states) have to pay better to entice applicants.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:27     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:I’m loving all these “just go be a fed” words of advice lol. Take it from someone doing hiring as an an attorney for a federal agency, nobody wants to hire some entitled, no experience, I command 200k salary noob. If you wanted public service then you better show you’ve been dedicated to public service.


That's not generally true. Lots of people transition from Biglaw to the feds. The biggest issue right now is that the feds are largely not hiring and, even before the current quasi-freeze, fed jobs were incredibly competitive.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:23     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:I am in house and have gotten headhunter calls for jobs in MCOL and even LCOL areas that supress salaries in DC. I think the prevalence of the government payscale in DC does suppress lawyer salaries, plus it's a plain old supply/demand issue.


Sorry--SURPASS the salaries in DC, which are suppressed by the government payscales.

Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:21     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
I am in house and have gotten headhunter calls for jobs in MCOL and even LCOL areas that supress salaries in DC. I think the prevalence of the government payscale in DC does suppress lawyer salaries, plus it's a plain old supply/demand issue.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2018 15:13     Subject: 5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I've been applying to smaller firms where I think I'd be happier but haven't gotten an offer in the range of what I could accept. I'm deeply dreading going back tomorrow. I hate my firm, it's a terrible fit. I didn't come close to hours last year, so I am sure the dissatisfaction is mutual. Also, I'm pregnant, so it's not a great time for job hunting. Would really appreciate some words of wisdom.


OP I'm a 9th year, also a general litigator, and about to leave big law because I'm not going to make partner. When I started looking for jobs, the salary ranges were SHOCKING compared to biglaw. Seriously. Govt is $164k for a GS 15-10 and in-house has been in the $135-145k range. Prepare yourself for a major pay cut. Initially I said I wouldn't accept anything under $200k but the reality is that you'd be lucky to leave a large law firm and still make that much, especially in the D.C. area. What salary range are you looking for?

If I were you, I would aggressively look for a job with the goal of making a move after your maternity leave. Take advantage of the maternity leave at your current job, for sure.


I was in the same situation as you about 2 yrs ago and landed at a gov't agency -- non GS, making 1st yr associate money (w/o the bonus). You must have realized that the biglaw pay scales have gotten way way out of whack and no other part of the industry is going to move their scale the same way bc biglaw did? I started way back in the day at 125k, within 1 yr the scale had shifted up to make 145k as first yrs, then 2 yrs later 160k; then the crash comes and a few yrs later 180k. Did you not find that crazy? Esp. given the fact that MOST (not all) firms are just not that busy -- not like they were in 2005-2007 pre-recession -- they just haven't gotten back to that level of work and probably never will, but they are driving up their rate, trying hard to hold onto clients -- sometimes successfully, sometimes not -- but feeling pressured to pay more bc Cravath has had no struggle finding work and raising its rates and can pay more, so Akin and Orrick think they must. Now I'm at a point though where every once in a while I'll have a discussion re in-house and I have to think twice bc in some cases, it would be a pay cut from my gov't salary.


Maybe this is just my small sample size but a few in house interviews I've had -- I've found that in house outside of DC appears to pay more than in DC. Kind of expected that from NYC finance driven companies esp given the higher NYC COL, but that was even true at a place I considered in Richmond and a friend had the same experience when leaving NYC biglaw to go in house in Memphis Tenn. I wonder if it's just a supply/demand issue -- all jobs were at HQ of major companies and all were positions open to former biglaw litigators.


This would not surprise me. One thing I've learned from DCUM is that the DMV has a glut of lawyers like OP, who feel stuck here, but no longer want to do BigLaw for family reasons. So, Memphis has to pay more to lure her to move, while DC can bet on her spouse's job and the feeling of being in the center of the world to make her take less.


Yet NYC is the center of the world and they don't expect you to take less? Though I wonder if at their COL they realize that if they underpay, people including those with DHs salary will walk bc it takes 2 larger salaries for a certain standard of living there.


1. That's NY. COL is a lot higher.
2. It would not surprise me to find out that there are MORE lawyers per available position in DC than in NY. The federal gov't is here.
3. My friend, who got out of BigLaw in NYC, lives like the academics I know, except that she owns her two-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn rather than rents. She is clearly not making NYC-lawyer bank.
4. I would guess that the stratosphere of law money in NYC is higher than it is here in DC, thus making high, but normal, salaries seem more reasonable.

What's it like in SF? Similar COL to NY, but not in lawyer central, despite Boalt and Standford.


This. I think overall the government depresses the salary scale in DC to where it is considered "normal" to leave biglaw after 4-8 yrs and end up in a 120-140k gov't job with eventual aspirations to get to 160k. Sure there are some agencies that are the exception, but I don't think the large majority of lawyer jobs are in those few financial agencies. I think other employers realize this and they know that if your other option is going to the gov't for 130k, they can pay you 140k in house and still get credentialed candidates. In NYC a lot of the financial services employers pay near 200k or a bit higher for in house, so other employers realize that if they are posting jobs for 115k, that's fine but they aren't going to get or keep top law school/v25 kind of attorneys bc they either won't accept the job to start with or will accept and jump ship the moment they can land an 180k in house job in financial services; the exception to this seems to be the universities in NYC as well as non profit -- but I think it's bc the people who want to work there, want to work there and they will sacrifice money for it.