Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:42
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This plan mortgages our children's futures. Our infrastructure will crumble, our poor will live harsher lives. The eventual cost will be that our country will simply not be as competitive. Like most of the world, our children will have a lot fewer comforts and advantages than what we have. Like people in other countries, instead of staying home, the most intrepid and accomplished will travel to other countries to work and make a good living. It will take much more extreme tactics to enter and stay in the middle class.
But don't worry, we'll still have rich people around to admire. Because contrary to what some of you seem to believe, all poor countries have rich people who wall themselves off and live well. Those rich people also have businesses and get their tax breaks because, well, no one else can really do much of anything. And we'll still be told that someday all that wealth will trickle down on us from our betters. And we'll still believe it.
But hey, I get a tax break!
And Obama added $8 trillion to the deficit, and with near zero percent interest rates still couldn't get GDP to 3% eight years after the financial crisis.
Why? Because he was too busy worry about all the free stuff he had to give to his unmotivated-to-work voters.
What do you think Obama should have done in the midst of the financial crisis (when most of the deficit spending was created)? Much of that deficit was created bailing out banks, bailing out auto companies, and bailing out homeowners, and an infrastructure package (and tax cut that the GOP wanted). What new "free stuff" did "unmotivated" voters get?
Also, why should we vote for the GOP if they are creating a deficit while the economy is growing? Obviously they are not better at spending.
Someone is lying to you.
1) the vast majority of Obama's debt has little to do with the stimulus package
2) even that package was very poorly designed and executed -- where around you can you see any roads or bridges or airports built as a result of the supposed ready to shove projects or supposed millions new green jobs? It was just about short term handouts, generating debt with little long term ROI
The vast majority of the debt during Obama’s term was the result of the Bush tax cuts and finally putting the wars “on the books” because Bush and the Republicans has been hiding the cost of the war outside the official debt.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:42
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey pal, you seem to be pretty bad at math. Democrat by any chance?
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
Why would you vote to add to the deficit AT ALL???????
Fair question.
Because to compete in the global economy I don't think you can take our economic engine of growth for granted.
I see this as an investment upfront in revitalizing that growth engine.
I may be right or I may be wrong -- let's results speak for themselves. So far Trump has done more economic good than all of his critics combined.
Signed,
Non-Trump voter with a brain and a 401k and a 529 that have gone up 35% since election day
Well if the USA doesn't try to bring back and retain jobs and capital then what? Obamacare raided medicare, comingled entitlements with real insurance, etc. Messed with group insurance. Chip and Medicaid should have been state programs and any fed subsidy done on a headcount with amounts varying only by fed pay grade cola %. The tax code should be about revenue for the feds NOT entitlement programs.
This tax plan does benefit low and lower middle class income groups. I don't know why the govt calls some tax credits refundable since they are NOT refunds of money paid in. No credits should be entitlements. No medicare should be free or subsidized for non-payors.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:40
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey pal, you seem to be pretty bad at math. Democrat by any chance?
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
Why would you vote to add to the deficit AT ALL???????
I guess pp's argument is that the GOP will add LESS to the deficit than democrats.
However, there is no reason to add to the deficit right now. We are in a good place in the economy. Where is the attempt to reduce the deficit on the Republicans' part? This bill is just handouts to the rich. If we add to the deficit when the economy is good, and when the economy is bad, why don't we just vote for the party that gives handouts to the people who actually need them?
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:39
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This plan mortgages our children's futures. Our infrastructure will crumble, our poor will live harsher lives. The eventual cost will be that our country will simply not be as competitive. Like most of the world, our children will have a lot fewer comforts and advantages than what we have. Like people in other countries, instead of staying home, the most intrepid and accomplished will travel to other countries to work and make a good living. It will take much more extreme tactics to enter and stay in the middle class.
But don't worry, we'll still have rich people around to admire. Because contrary to what some of you seem to believe, all poor countries have rich people who wall themselves off and live well. Those rich people also have businesses and get their tax breaks because, well, no one else can really do much of anything. And we'll still be told that someday all that wealth will trickle down on us from our betters. And we'll still believe it.
But hey, I get a tax break!
And Obama added $8 trillion to the deficit, and with near zero percent interest rates still couldn't get GDP to 3% eight years after the financial crisis.
Why? Because he was too busy worry about all the free stuff he had to give to his unmotivated-to-work voters.
What do you think Obama should have done in the midst of the financial crisis (when most of the deficit spending was created)? Much of that deficit was created bailing out banks, bailing out auto companies, and bailing out homeowners, and an infrastructure package (and tax cut that the GOP wanted). What new "free stuff" did "unmotivated" voters get?
Also, why should we vote for the GOP if they are creating a deficit while the economy is growing? Obviously they are not better at spending.
Someone is lying to you.
1) the vast majority of Obama's debt has little to do with the stimulus package
2) even that package was very poorly designed and executed -- where around you can you see any roads or bridges or airports built as a result of the supposed ready to shove projects or supposed millions new green jobs? It was just about short term handouts, generating debt with little long term ROI
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:33
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey pal, you seem to be pretty bad at math. Democrat by any chance?
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
Why would you vote to add to the deficit AT ALL???????
Fair question.
Because to compete in the global economy I don't think you can take our economic engine of growth for granted.
I see this as an investment upfront in revitalizing that growth engine.
I may be right or I may be wrong -- let's results speak for themselves. So far Trump has done more economic good than all of his critics combined.
Signed,
Non-Trump voter with a brain and a 401k and a 529 that have gone up 35% since election day
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:33
Subject: Re:What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
everything will be fine until you need social security or medicare
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:32
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This plan mortgages our children's futures. Our infrastructure will crumble, our poor will live harsher lives. The eventual cost will be that our country will simply not be as competitive. Like most of the world, our children will have a lot fewer comforts and advantages than what we have. Like people in other countries, instead of staying home, the most intrepid and accomplished will travel to other countries to work and make a good living. It will take much more extreme tactics to enter and stay in the middle class.
But don't worry, we'll still have rich people around to admire. Because contrary to what some of you seem to believe, all poor countries have rich people who wall themselves off and live well. Those rich people also have businesses and get their tax breaks because, well, no one else can really do much of anything. And we'll still be told that someday all that wealth will trickle down on us from our betters. And we'll still believe it.
But hey, I get a tax break!
And Obama added $8 trillion to the deficit, and with near zero percent interest rates still couldn't get GDP to 3% eight years after the financial crisis.
Why? Because he was too busy worry about all the free stuff he had to give to his unmotivated-to-work voters.
What do you think Obama should have done in the midst of the financial crisis (when most of the deficit spending was created)? Much of that deficit was created bailing out banks, bailing out auto companies, and bailing out homeowners, and an infrastructure package (and tax cut that the GOP wanted). What new "free stuff" did "unmotivated" voters get?
Also, why should we vote for the GOP if they are creating a deficit while the economy is growing? Obviously they are not better at spending.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:26
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Hey pal, you seem to be pretty bad at math. Democrat by any chance?
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
Why would you vote to add to the deficit AT ALL???????
Anonymous
12/19/2017 08:25
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why everyone says this is a cut for the wealthiest. The highest tax bracket does not see a percentage cut, just the increase in standard deductions that everyone gets. The bracket below is a 1% decrease, which is a smaller percentage than any other income bracket. Unless this donor class is all organized as a business, the individual side is not tailored to give the wealthiest the biggest benefit. (I understand that percentages and dollars are different things and that 1% for some is more than 2% for others, but how else do you structure something like this?)
Because the wealthiest benefit from things like:
--the point at which the AMT kicks in doubles
--the estate tax exemption doubles to $11 million for singles and $22 million for couples, which works out to about 1% of the people who pay it
--raises the standard deduction for pass-through businesses like sole proprietorships, partnerships, LLCs, and S-corporations -- the types of small companies many wealthy people own
--retains the carried interest provision which allows hedge fund investors to pay a much lower rate than 37% or 39% for investment profits -- usually 20%
--lowers corporate income tax rate to 20%, which increases profits (and dividends) for people who invest in the stock market
it's not just the top marginal tax rate
Anonymous
12/19/2017 07:57
Subject: Re:What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
I think I must be in that 5% group that will see a tax increase. We don't make quite enough to get hit by the AMT but benefitting from SALT, and only one kid. The hit from the reduction in SALT benefit and loss of personal exemptions outweighs the benefit of the child tax credit and lower tax brackets to the tune of about $2,000 in increased taxes from what I can tell. However, if the tax plan boosts the stock market further, then we'll more than make up for that.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 07:40
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:This plan mortgages our children's futures. Our infrastructure will crumble, our poor will live harsher lives. The eventual cost will be that our country will simply not be as competitive. Like most of the world, our children will have a lot fewer comforts and advantages than what we have. Like people in other countries, instead of staying home, the most intrepid and accomplished will travel to other countries to work and make a good living. It will take much more extreme tactics to enter and stay in the middle class.
But don't worry, we'll still have rich people around to admire. Because contrary to what some of you seem to believe, all poor countries have rich people who wall themselves off and live well. Those rich people also have businesses and get their tax breaks because, well, no one else can really do much of anything. And we'll still be told that someday all that wealth will trickle down on us from our betters. And we'll still believe it.
But hey, I get a tax break!
And Obama added $8 trillion to the deficit, and with near zero percent interest rates still couldn't get GDP to 3% eight years after the financial crisis.
Why? Because he was too busy worry about all the free stuff he had to give to his unmotivated-to-work voters.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 07:31
Subject: Re:What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
+1
Anonymous
12/19/2017 07:05
Subject: Re:What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's hard to say. I don't exactly trust the press to fairly present the tax plan. You have Fox News on one side and on the other side you have liberal media outlets who can't stand Trump. I suppose time will tell.
Yep.
The media is just pure noise, when not pure nonsense.
Let's see where we are a year from now.
To be fair to them it has been tough to cover what has been a remarkably opaque process given the size of the bill.
I was able to calculate my taxes for 2015 using the details provided in the Washington Post and NYT and I found that for our AGI of $150K, we get $350 next year (assuming the income and itemized deductions from 2015) and pay $1650 more in subsequent years once our son is too old for the child tax credit.
Having a $10K SALT cap and losing three personal exemptions is what does it and the lower tax rates don't help enough
I agree about that, the process has been opaque and fast, making it hard too cover.
But you will agree that many articles in the NYT and WaPo have been misleading and by design, focused on the minority who will see any tax increase vs the vast majority who will see cuts.
Anonymous
12/19/2017 07:01
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Hey pal, you seem to be pretty bad at math. Democrat by any chance?
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
1.5 trillion over 10 years (Trump's tax cost) is lower than 6.7 trillion (the most accurate estimate of the additional debt Obama created).
If you can about your grandkids and debt, you vote GOP. If you want handouts today and f*cking your grandkids, you vote Democrat.
Anonymous
12/18/2017 23:33
Subject: What am I missing? Tax plan seems to really help us.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren will curse you for leaving them trillions of dollars in debt!
Obama!
Pelosi!
Democrats!
God you Republicans are stupid, selfish, ignorant and racist. But hey you'll get your tax cut without any commensurate reduction in discretionary spending!
http://www.businessinsider.com/who-increased-the-debt-2012-9
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/gop-presidents-have-been-the-worst-contributors-to-the-federal-debt/264193/
https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296
Do you need me to post some links about how much this latest tax cut is increasing the deficit?