Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:59     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:I have an 11yr old 6th grader, first year of middle school. First quarter included a FACS class (formerly known as Home Ec, or at least it was for me). Early in the year it was clear he and his teacher were not clicking (he pretty quickly believed she hated him). He has ADHD and can definitely be annoying (drums fingers on things, taps or clicks his pen, fidgets in his seat) and was overly chatty the first week or so with friends he hadn't seen all year. By week two she was keeping him after class and asking him how he can pay better attention in class and threatened him with detention for talking with classmates (equally talkative classmates were not threatened with detention). At my recommendation he ended up talking to the guidance counselor about how he could better communicate with the teacher and improve the situation.

A week or so later was teacher conferences and we met with her. She was VERY effusive about how she would NEVER want a student to feel singled out and that everything is just fine and they're good now. All was not well; she continued to chastise him regularly and appeared to be downgrading him on any assignment that didn't require objective grading. Written tests with clear correct/incorrect answers? A. Labs, presentations? Anywhere from B- to D+. After the final test of the year, he had an A- based on test scores, which pulled up the grades she was giving him on everything else.

Final day of class (it ends at the end the quarter), she has a surprise cooking lab. When final grades are posted for the quarter, he gets an F on the lab. The notation says "lab behavior". I grill my kid extensively. He is baffled. He is hurt. He says he was telling funny stories with his group during lab but he wasn't doing anything "wrong". (He has plenty of experience reflecting upon and admitting to poor behavior). I ask him if she asked him to stop. No. I asked him if he was disruptive. No. I asked him if he completed the lab steps and did the work. Yes. I ask him to seriously think about it and what might have resulted in an F. He is devastated because he really believes he was doing nothing different from others, finished all the work, cleaned his materials, etc.

Why does this feel like a big deal to him? He has As in every other class and was SO proud of himself. He has worked really hard and is hugely disappointed that he won't be on the A honor roll because of the final F in this class. It brought his grade down just enough. And it feels so...intentional.

How do I handle this? So far I'm telling him that he can have a conversation with the teacher and ask her to help him understand why. He keeps hoping she will have a change of heart and change the grade. I don't want to wade into this because it feels too helicopter-y over a pretty meaningless grade in a class that doesn't "matter" (apologies to all FACS teachers out there). But I also don't want to say nothing to or about a teacher that has seemingly been arbitrary and punishing an unliked kid by docking grades.

Okay, that was LONG, but advice welcome!



OP, your story is very odd. What was your child's grade before the lab? It would be very, very, very difficult, if not statistically impossible, for the grade for a one-day lab to pull down a grade so much that it went from passing to failing.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:44     Subject: Re:How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a teacher, I am having trouble with the idea that he was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and somehow also telling funny stories. Which was it?

I also have trouble with the idea that a middle schooler on the last day of school needs a reminder about behavior expectations before a consequence.


It seems to me that most home ec classes would have periods where talking and conversation would be acceptable. It wasnt exactly Russian Literature


Conversation and telling funny stories to get a reaction from peers are two totally different things.

-- teacher again.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:42     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I know several posters think my kid must be far worse than described. He's actually pretty good at reflecting on his own behavior (after the fact, not necessarily in the moment), so when he tells me he did the work and wasn't out of control I believe that his reporting is not TOO far from accurate. We've had years of experience getting to the real story and now he's pretty efficient at cutting to the chase and being honest about what didn't go well. Also, in my original post I wanted to make clear that he wasn't perfect and listed everything I could think of (no hiding the ball).

I am inclined to ask the teacher to help me understand the grading rubric for the lab and how she arrived at the grade. It was a 25 point lab. She gave him 7 points. So somewhere along the line 18 points were not earned (or were docked, however she thinks of it), and I will request she detail the behavior. Once I receive her response I will go over it with my son and see what makes sense for next steps.

My goal is to help HIM learn when to speak up and ask when something doesn't make sense. But he's not willing (today, anyway) to go back and talk to her because he feels like she hates him and he thinks anything he says will backfire and get him in more trouble.


Good plan. Sometimes adults aren't fair. Teachers do get frustrated with the kids in their class that aren't the 'easy' kids and it can be hard to stay impartial. It could be your kid was great for most of it but at a moment when the teacher was already tired/frustrated/annoyed, she turned to see your kid goofing off and all of her negative emotion was directed at him through the mark.

Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:37     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I know several posters think my kid must be far worse than described. He's actually pretty good at reflecting on his own behavior (after the fact, not necessarily in the moment), so when he tells me he did the work and wasn't out of control I believe that his reporting is not TOO far from accurate. We've had years of experience getting to the real story and now he's pretty efficient at cutting to the chase and being honest about what didn't go well. Also, in my original post I wanted to make clear that he wasn't perfect and listed everything I could think of (no hiding the ball).

I am inclined to ask the teacher to help me understand the grading rubric for the lab and how she arrived at the grade. It was a 25 point lab. She gave him 7 points. So somewhere along the line 18 points were not earned (or were docked, however she thinks of it), and I will request she detail the behavior. Once I receive her response I will go over it with my son and see what makes sense for next steps.

My goal is to help HIM learn when to speak up and ask when something doesn't make sense. But he's not willing (today, anyway) to go back and talk to her because he feels like she hates him and he thinks anything he says will backfire and get him in more trouble.


Good plan OP. But I would be prepared to get higher ups involved if it doesnt make any sense.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:27     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Trusting a 5th grader...esp. one with adhd... I mean, come on.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 14:21     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I know several posters think my kid must be far worse than described. He's actually pretty good at reflecting on his own behavior (after the fact, not necessarily in the moment), so when he tells me he did the work and wasn't out of control I believe that his reporting is not TOO far from accurate. We've had years of experience getting to the real story and now he's pretty efficient at cutting to the chase and being honest about what didn't go well. Also, in my original post I wanted to make clear that he wasn't perfect and listed everything I could think of (no hiding the ball).

I am inclined to ask the teacher to help me understand the grading rubric for the lab and how she arrived at the grade. It was a 25 point lab. She gave him 7 points. So somewhere along the line 18 points were not earned (or were docked, however she thinks of it), and I will request she detail the behavior. Once I receive her response I will go over it with my son and see what makes sense for next steps.

My goal is to help HIM learn when to speak up and ask when something doesn't make sense. But he's not willing (today, anyway) to go back and talk to her because he feels like she hates him and he thinks anything he says will backfire and get him in more trouble.


Or he is not willing to talk to her because he knows he misbehaved and isn't telling you the whole truth. There is probably another family who is mad their kid's grade was lowered because they had to be in the same group as a kid who told funny stories and pissed off the teacher. You still dont seem to understand goofing around in a cooking class is different than goofing around in history or PE. Kids are using knives and hot surfaces.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 13:19     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
OP here. I know several posters think my kid must be far worse than described. He's actually pretty good at reflecting on his own behavior (after the fact, not necessarily in the moment), so when he tells me he did the work and wasn't out of control I believe that his reporting is not TOO far from accurate. We've had years of experience getting to the real story and now he's pretty efficient at cutting to the chase and being honest about what didn't go well. Also, in my original post I wanted to make clear that he wasn't perfect and listed everything I could think of (no hiding the ball).

I am inclined to ask the teacher to help me understand the grading rubric for the lab and how she arrived at the grade. It was a 25 point lab. She gave him 7 points. So somewhere along the line 18 points were not earned (or were docked, however she thinks of it), and I will request she detail the behavior. Once I receive her response I will go over it with my son and see what makes sense for next steps.

My goal is to help HIM learn when to speak up and ask when something doesn't make sense. But he's not willing (today, anyway) to go back and talk to her because he feels like she hates him and he thinks anything he says will backfire and get him in more trouble.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 13:17     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:Why are you leaving all of the communication to him? I agree with your approach for high schoolers, but not for 6th graders. I would absolutely email the teacher and counselor and ask for a conference to discuss the lab grade.


I completely disagree with you. OP needs to call the teacher and ask her how she as a parent can help her DS be less disruptive and a better student. Here is how a similar situation went down for me, some 30 years ago, in Eastern Europe. I got an F on an exam, I was a straight A student. I plain told my teacher that I was not ready for it, and that I know nothing. My mom was coming back from work, and I told her before she came into the house that, ha, ha I got a bad grade. She smacked the crap out of me, without asking any questions. She had me apologize to my teacher, not for not knowing the material, but for being disrespectful. She didn't ask if teacher was mean, had a thing against me...She didn't ask me for a single detail, apart from my first telling. Now, I do not beat my kids, nor am I suggesting that physical punishment is the way to raise kids. Absolutely not. But, you can bet I was never rude to a teacher, ever again in any class. And I bet you around the world, even today, what happened to me, is happening to millions of kids in different countries around the world. No wonder education system in the U.S. is failing to educated many kids, parents like OP are to blame.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 13:09     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I doubt very much that the teacher did this lightly. Your kid must've been very, very disruptive and is sadly not telling you the truth. The version you are getting is most likely wrong. Just re-read what you wrote, he was telling funny stories and yet he thinks he was doing the same as others? Probably not. ADHD kids version of what happened is often not the real picture. I do have teen DD with hyper ADHD, and this would sound like something she would tell me, but I've had the opportunity to see that she perceives things differently and her idea of her behavior is not the reality. Also, pause and think about why you are upset about this, his story doesn't add up.


You sound like a bad mom.


What a ridiculous statement, based on what? I am a great mom who knows her kids, and I don't live in alternate reality.


You sound very mocking and distrustful of her. Almost like gaslighting.


Not at all. I want to trust her and believe her, and on most things I do. But, I also know her really well. You have teens or not?


Apparently not.


Clearly not on all things. I have very good reasons for not believing everything she tells me. I wonder why are there so many delusional parents here who think their kids are saints who would never fib? Rare is a teen/tween who tells his parents the exact truth and never lies even a little bit. And if they don't plain lie, they certainly don't tell your everything. If you had teens, you would know this or you choose to live in some fantasy world. Some pps here are just begging to be let down by their kids. Sad reality is that if you think your kid is a perfect angel as a teen, you are deceiving yourself.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 12:58     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Why are you leaving all of the communication to him? I agree with your approach for high schoolers, but not for 6th graders. I would absolutely email the teacher and counselor and ask for a conference to discuss the lab grade.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 12:56     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I doubt very much that the teacher did this lightly. Your kid must've been very, very disruptive and is sadly not telling you the truth. The version you are getting is most likely wrong. Just re-read what you wrote, he was telling funny stories and yet he thinks he was doing the same as others? Probably not. ADHD kids version of what happened is often not the real picture. I do have teen DD with hyper ADHD, and this would sound like something she would tell me, but I've had the opportunity to see that she perceives things differently and her idea of her behavior is not the reality. Also, pause and think about why you are upset about this, his story doesn't add up.


You sound like a bad mom.


What a ridiculous statement, based on what? I am a great mom who knows her kids, and I don't live in alternate reality.


You sound very mocking and distrustful of her. Almost like gaslighting.


Not at all. I want to trust her and believe her, and on most things I do. But, I also know her really well. You have teens or not?


Apparently not.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 12:54     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
I guarantee your kid is pathologically lying to you.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 11:43     Subject: Re:How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
This is tough. I agree that you don't have enough information about this and should contact the teacher and the special ed chair/case manager to discuss. If your DS's behaviors are impacting his grades then he's either not receiving sufficient accommodations in the classroom or he needs an IEP goal related to classroom behaviors. I would keep emotions out of it and look at it as an opportunity to help your DS more objectively evaluate his behaviors and then take action - either to take steps to curb his behavior or self-advocate with the teacher/case manager. This will also be a valuable life lesson he'll need for the workplace.

I wouldn't worry about being viewed as 'helicopterish'. This isn't about what grade your DS gets, it's about learning life lessons. This will not be the last time he finds himself in a position where he's not meeting expectations (whether these expectations are reasonable or not). He needs to figure out what to do when he's in that situation. You should definitely model the behavior you want him to learn. Show him how to problem solve and self-advocate. Some kinds can learn this on there own, many kid (ADHD or not) need more direct instruction and support.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 10:51     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:I doubt very much that the teacher did this lightly. Your kid must've been very, very disruptive and is sadly not telling you the truth. The version you are getting is most likely wrong. Just re-read what you wrote, he was telling funny stories and yet he thinks he was doing the same as others? Probably not. ADHD kids version of what happened is often not the real picture. I do have teen DD with hyper ADHD, and this would sound like something she would tell me, but I've had the opportunity to see that she perceives things differently and her idea of her behavior is not the reality. Also, pause and think about why you are upset about this, his story doesn't add up.


Yup. She gave a grade that will cause her trouble. A C would have been enough to piss you and your kid off without complication.

The honor roll comment is what leads me to believe there is more going on.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2017 10:46     Subject: How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I doubt very much that the teacher did this lightly. Your kid must've been very, very disruptive and is sadly not telling you the truth. The version you are getting is most likely wrong. Just re-read what you wrote, he was telling funny stories and yet he thinks he was doing the same as others? Probably not. ADHD kids version of what happened is often not the real picture. I do have teen DD with hyper ADHD, and this would sound like something she would tell me, but I've had the opportunity to see that she perceives things differently and her idea of her behavior is not the reality. Also, pause and think about why you are upset about this, his story doesn't add up.


You sound like a bad mom.


What a ridiculous statement, based on what? I am a great mom who knows her kids, and I don't live in alternate reality.


You sound very mocking and distrustful of her. Almost like gaslighting.


Not at all. I want to trust her and believe her, and on most things I do. But, I also know her really well. You have teens or not?