Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 19:47     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.


One persons hero is another persons sucker.

Really change cheating to addiction or hitting.


So women that are abused are suckers. Wow- you are beyond an a-hole.


No. People who buy Esther Perel’s BS are suckers.

Take her philosophy change the word to hit or addiction and you will see his bat sh!t crazy she is.


As a betrayed spouse, I am no fan of Esther. She’s an affair apologist.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 19:35     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.


One persons hero is another persons sucker.

Really change cheating to addiction or hitting.


So women that are abused are suckers. Wow- you are beyond an a-hole.


No. People who buy Esther Perel’s BS are suckers.

Take her philosophy change the word to hit or addiction and you will see his bat sh!t crazy she is.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 18:57     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do realize sex is more than a physical act. It is a means of connection with your partner, communication. If you aren't doing that for whatever reason and sex is important to your partner you are pushing them away. Own that.


If it was just a physical act, people would probably still be willing to do it even if they had zero libido. In fact people probably wouldn’t lose their desire to have sex in the first place if it was just a physical act.

But the thing is, losing your libido is not acting out against your spouse. It’s not intentional. It’s not something anybody wants. It sucks. And then to suggest that you deserve the trauma that comes with being cheated on because you’re dealing with libido loss? Thats a bit of a punch to the gut. (Open marriage man doesn’t need to chime in here, I’m not talking about that).


Losing libido sucks but the solution can't be asking your partner for celibacy. And I think a lot of people are lazy when it comes to blaming loss if libido. It takes work as we get older but if you love your spouse and want to remain monogamous you work on it
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 18:29     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.


One persons hero is another persons sucker.

Really change cheating to addiction or hitting.


So women that are abused are suckers. Wow- you are beyond an a-hole.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 17:57     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:You do realize sex is more than a physical act. It is a means of connection with your partner, communication. If you aren't doing that for whatever reason and sex is important to your partner you are pushing them away. Own that.


If it was just a physical act, people would probably still be willing to do it even if they had zero libido. In fact people probably wouldn’t lose their desire to have sex in the first place if it was just a physical act.

But the thing is, losing your libido is not acting out against your spouse. It’s not intentional. It’s not something anybody wants. It sucks. And then to suggest that you deserve the trauma that comes with being cheated on because you’re dealing with libido loss? Thats a bit of a punch to the gut. (Open marriage man doesn’t need to chime in here, I’m not talking about that).
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:35     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:I absolutely agree. My dad cheated on my mom and her inability to see her major contributions to the affair - years of toxic behavior that hurt our whole family - prevented them from moving forward and fixing their relationship. They’re still together and not very happy and I really hate it.


You really need therapy
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:30     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
I absolutely agree. My dad cheated on my mom and her inability to see her major contributions to the affair - years of toxic behavior that hurt our whole family - prevented them from moving forward and fixing their relationship. They’re still together and not very happy and I really hate it.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:18     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:You do realize sex is more than a physical act. It is a means of connection with your partner, communication. If you aren't doing that for whatever reason and sex is important to your partner you are pushing them away. Own that.


Great/frequent sex life. Spouse cheated. Go figure. It's not the reason many men cheat.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:13     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
You do realize sex is more than a physical act. It is a means of connection with your partner, communication. If you aren't doing that for whatever reason and sex is important to your partner you are pushing them away. Own that.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:10     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.


The one thing she does say which can be so true is that sometimes the affair has absolutely nothing to do with the marriage, the spouse, the sex life, etc. Sometimes, it is 100% due to the individual trying to run away from themselves. They are not happy with themselves and use the affair as a way to escape. This is very common with men in midlife affairs. They often are cheating with someone a big step down from their own spouse. They find it safer since they have zero plans to be found out or leave the marriage. They think they will never get caught and compartmentalize the actions, don't bring it home. Box it up and put it on a shelf as soon as they leave the hotel room. Once the process that childhood trauma and learn new coping skills, how to feel empathy and guilt and SIT with their feelings they can become whole again. It takes a lot of committed individual therapy...and if the wife has found out she is now traumatized and would need to want to even reconcile and then she needs individual and couples therapy. It can be done and they can end up in a much better place, but it is monumental work.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:09     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.


One persons hero is another persons sucker.

Really change cheating to addiction or hitting.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 16:04     Subject: "the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
I don’t love Esther perel, but in fairness, her work centers around having a good marriage after infidelity if it’s possible. She isn’t trying to justify cheating at all, or blaming the party who didn’t cheat.

It is fair to point out that if, say, one spouse stops showing interest in the other spouse, that might be a factor in why the other would cheat. I think that Perel’s take is that in order for the marriage to get to a good place, the partner who didn’t cheat needs, eventually, to start showing interest in their spouse again.

I find the whole idea repulsive though. Perel says that people who are still willing to work on their marriage after their partner cheats are heroes. Good for them, I could never be that hero.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 15:41     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
I don’t consider myself to have cheated. My STBX was long ago checked out. I stayed for the children. Once they were adults, I was out. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.MEMBER.OF.MY.FAMILY nor any of my friends judged me. They all knew the hell I suffered for 22 years. What any one tells me on DCUM doesn’t matter to me at all. My life! I’ll live it my way. You can only take so long of living with someone who dies nothing but take from you gives nothing in return.


Hahahaha. You sound like Bill Clinton. The definition of cheating is objective, not malleable. By definition, you cheated by admittedly entering into a new relationship while you were still married. Maybe no one blames you, but you still cheated. Sounds like you should have divorced 22 years earlier instead of trashing your own integrity.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 15:36     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
My affair was my fault.

My affair is not want ended our marriage.

What ended our marriage was both of our faults.


It’s amazing the mental gymnastics cheaters go through to rationalize their shi!!y behavior. Is this what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night? Because no one else would buy it.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 15:28     Subject: Re:"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.


There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.


I don’t consider myself to have cheated. My STBX was long ago checked out. I stayed for the children. Once they were adults, I was out. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.MEMBER.OF.MY.FAMILY nor any of my friends judged me. They all knew the hell I suffered for 22 years. What any one tells me on DCUM doesn’t matter to me at all. My life! I’ll live it my way. You can only take so long of living with someone who dies nothing but take from you gives nothing in return.


You need more therapy. Your anger issues are toxic.


Seriously. And did she ever bother to divorce or just get crazier over the years and more disgruntled? Stayed for the $ most likely while banging others.