Personally I would take awful pics if her everyday and post them just to piss her off.

Anonymous wrote:Double standards, OP. You are angry with her yet you don't see that she has a right to be angry with you? Gaslighting much? You carry on like this if you want to, but don't complain in the future when you are completely estranged from your daughter. Actions have consequences, and YOU started it, not her, not your wife.
No means no. That doesn't apply only to rape cases.

OP here.

She has a right to be angry with whoever or whatever she chooses. I have always told her that open and honest emotion will always be welcome in our home. The price for that is that you MUST talk it over that day, no exceptions. So you can come in, call me a "fucking piece of shit asshole", slam the door, and throw things in your room. But in order to have that right, you must be willing to tell me WHY you feel that way in a clear and reasonable conversation when you have calmed down, and allow me to respond and understand so we might be able to sort it out.

I am kind of surprised how much response this thread has gotten. It's been quite eye opening and informative. I truly appreciate everyone's input and point of view.

But I must say, and you guys don't know me or the whole situation (which is impossible even in the best of forums), if this kind of incident causes us to be estranged in life, I will be heartbroken and hopefully get over it. But I will never apologize for the type of father that I am, and continue to be. Not for one second.

Stubborn? Maybe. Knowing with absolute certainty that I am a good dad who has never been unkind to or raged at my child and am doing my best (which is providing her a pretty nice life)? Absolutely.

Guys, the buck has to stop somewhere and all I'm saying is that any household where a 14yo has any control over a 50yo is flawed in many ways.

Flame away...

^^Parent Effectiveness Training. Really good book.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you'd probably get different answers if you were talking about a son instead of a daughter. Our society is currently turning out girls who are out of control in an attempt to "empower" them. They're being empowered, but the emphasis is not being placed on the right things. They're becoming insufferable.

+100

And btw, men are not the only ones who feel this way. I am a woman and a mother to daughters and I find this thread to be crazy. I guess I missed the memo where my teenagers start dictating how things go around here.

I'm the mom of boys. I wouldn't post pics of them online if they didn't want me to. Just like I would expect them (or anyone) not to post pictures of me online if I didn't want them to.

My eldest is 19, a straight-A student in a top college, working an internship, an intelligent and delightful young man who respects his parents and helps around the house (when he is here). We have a great relationship. You know how we got here? By my walking the walk, not just talking the talk. I treat my family with kindness and respect, and I expect them to treat me and others that way as well.

My younger son is 14, just like OP's DD. He too gets treated as if his opinions matter. Does that mean he gets his way all the time? Of course not. But I don't need to overrule him at every turn to satisfy my own silly pride or trivial desires or to show him who's boss. He knows who is boss. And just like any good boss, I give him the space he needs to do his thing; I listen to his opinions and ideas and encourage his autonomy; I allow him to find success on his own as much as possible; I provide advice and expertise when asked or when it looks like it is needed; and I step in and take charge if it looks like things are about to go off the rails.

My kids are turning out pretty well, and I have a good relationship with them. Can OP say the same?

Obnoxious. Give me a break. Count your lucky stars, lady. Sure, you did your part in helping your kids to become successful. But you're kidding yourself if you think your kids' natural inclinations and personalities didn't have a huge impact on how they got to where they are.

All I hear in your post is self-congratulation and sanctimony. Go kick rocks.

Actually, my oldest had plenty of behavior problems as a younger kid. I am quite sure that the way to handle them was not to behave as badly as he was, LOL. I've never been sorry for modeling good behavior for my kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Your level of anger about this suggests that in your heart, you are confusing your daughter with your ex-wife.

My dad did this. Even slipped a few times and called me Marla. I'm 50. Still not over those years of vitriol. My mom deserves her share the blame for what happened in their marriage, but none of the blame for how he chose to treat me.

Stop projecting your own issues onto the OP. If you're not over your issues then seek therapy.

My point was that the daughter won't ever forgive him for treating her with all this venom whe she is a kid. If she is a teen, and he doesn't know that our relationships with our kids are not contests, he is done for.

I am all for respecting everyone's rights and wishes, but it has to go both ways. Based on this, I will be calmly and gently pointing out all the times she spied on me and sent texts, pics, and recordings to her mother, who then handed them to her lawyers (those guys could make Mother Theresa look like a horrible person) to use against me, and posted some of them on FB with some pretty vitriolic text. I don't think D14 is aware that mom posted her pix on FB during the divorce. I will also be reminding her of the time she accused me of being sexually inappropriate (baseless) around her and a friend and ran to mom with that one… you can guess how fast the lawyers were involved in that one.

I'm the PP who wrote about resenting my divorced dad's "I'm the parent" rulemaking.

When I read your original post, I noticed you included a lot about your ex-wife and things that happened during the divorce. You may think they were just minor details to put your anger in context, but that allows you to miss the fact that your feelings about your daughter are in the context of your divorce. I wondered why you needed to post the pictures on FB, and if that need is also in the context of your divorce. You may have blocked your ex-wife, but you're still sending very public messages to her and about her.

I could be wrong about all that, and I'm certainly in no position to tell you what you're feeling or what you should feel. But I just want to point out how easy it is to miss what our actions can convey - right or wrong - about our feelings. My dad never said a bad word about my mother - ever. But at 14, I was acutely aware of how he felt about her. I was aware of it at age 8. I'll never know for certain because he never talked about it with me, but I felt very often that he was vectoring his feelings about it onto me. I also felt that he was playing out the things he'd wish done (take control, express what he would and would not have, nip it in the bud) and trying to mold me into the person he wanted my mother to be - which is to say, making sure I knew he was the boss and that I showed appreciation for the good person he was, or at least that he was trying to be.

This had the opposite effect that he wanted. Because what I felt was that I couldn't trust him with MY feelings. It was his feelings that mattered more to him, his feelings that he paid more attention to, his feelings that dictated outcomes in all matters. It didn't help that he tried so hard to mask his feelings and couch them in "good parenting" because it made me feel he was dishonest and lacked judgment. Yeah, I came to that conclusion about his judgment around age 10.

I don't agree with a previous poster that you and your ex-W are making your daughter into a manipulative person. No one makes a person do anything. Feelings drive action. Anger, Fear, Surprise - these are all fast-acting agents designed to suppress thought and spur immediate action. One of the most important lessons a parent can teach is that it's safer to recognize the feeling and the impulse to act AND THEN figure out how to proceed. Critical to the lesson is 1) demonstrating that you can do it, and 2) acknowledging their feelings in a situation so they can develop a habit of doing that for themselves before they move on to decision-making. The hardest part is allowing them to do this without judgment about them, or their feelings, or their decision-making. Childhood and young adulthood is the only time in their lives where most mistakes are not high stakes. And making mistakes is how you learn to avoid them. Don't tie a mistake they make to how you feel about them as the person they are. (psst. Every teenager's got drama.)

I found a lot of help in the book Parent Effective Training in re-forming how I approach my kid and avoiding the mistakes my dad made. It works well on relationships with adults, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Thanks for all the replies. I must say, it was an interesting read and definitely gave me some perspective. A lot of it caused me to rethink my position and see things more clearly from her point, and a lot of it felt like a rush to judgment without considering a bigger picture. Fair enough. A few felt pretty harsh (I really don't think of myself as a "bad dad", because I'm not).

FWIW; What I recall of the day the pic was taken was I that as dropped her off for her event, I said something like "Can we take a FB selfie? You can even take it." She said "sure, after I change". She did and then even fixed her hair in a mirror. I handed her my phone and she took a few shots of us smiling. She got out of the car and we said "I love you" and off she went. She was then at her mother's house for the week.

My point being that I truly recall saying it was for FB and allowing her to take it and see it as she did. If that was somehow miscommunicated, I will apologize profusely to her and hope that is enough. If it's not, then I will let it go and hope that time heals things.

I cannot offer more love, support, encouragement, and presence than I have. I have bent over backwards to be a better parent after the awful divorce. But if my best isn’t good enough, then so be it.

I am all for respecting everyone's rights and wishes, but it has to go both ways. Based on this, I will be calmly and gently pointing out all the times she spied on me and sent texts, pics, and recordings to her mother, who then handed them to her lawyers (those guys could make Mother Theresa look like a horrible person) to use against me, and posted some of them on FB with some pretty vitriolic text. I don't think D14 is aware that mom posted her pix on FB during the divorce. I will also be reminding her of the time she accused me of being sexually inappropriate (baseless) around her and a friend and ran to mom with that one… you can guess how fast the lawyers were involved in that one.

So to wrap it all up, I will apologize for whatever mistake I have made. But I will also clearly tell her that she has done just as many things to break my trust and it was my mistake to allow those to continue. The first time she texted pics and reports to mom, I should have taken her phone for good.

I will also change every single one of the almost 400 pwds I have over the coming weeks.

Have you sat her down and explained to her what her mother has done, and what you have done? You can even make it into two columns and show it to her.
This is a difficult time for your child, and at 14 she can't work it all out. She needs to be shown so that you two see what can change for the better. During this exercise, you will see what you need to do, and she will see what she needs to do. It has to be done honestly, without any finger-pointing, since the mere facts are damning enough. The reality is that you did something wrong (post pics when she's not comfortable with it), she did something wrong and her mother did something wrong. When you lay it all out on paper, it's really easy to see who is being way, way, worse than the others.

Please don't try to get your DD to take sides against her mother. She will not thank you for this, OP. If you are the reasonable one and XW is really crazy, trust that this will become clear to DD in time. Be the steady, reliable one that she can count on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the suggestion "don't drink and type" is in order here.

OP here.

I didn't.

In any event, if this is the impression you make, it is time to step away from the keys.

OP, please think about your issues with your ex separately from your DD, and in relation to your DD. Maybe your DD doesn't really care if you post things on FB. Maybe it's your ex who objects and she whips DD into a frenzy.

I get that you can't live your life if you are always walking on eggshells not to trip over XW's crazy. But there are things to take a stand on/worth standing up for, and there are things just not worth the cost to you and your DD. Is posting something on FB really worth all this?

I can see that this is just a small piece of a much larger problem, but I wonder if you can try to approach the problem from the perspective of "what is best for DD here?" you might have an easier time navigating all this.

Your XW has shown a continued willingness to invade and attack. Stop giving her so much ammunition. Don't post things on FB that she will see. I assume you aren't friends with your XW, but maybe you should unfriend your DD as well.

Don't blame your DD for what are really your XW's issues. DD doesn't have a lot of power here. She's even more at her mom's mercy than you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Your level of anger about this suggests that in your heart, you are confusing your daughter with your ex-wife.

My dad did this. Even slipped a few times and called me Marla. I'm 50. Still not over those years of vitriol. My mom deserves her share the blame for what happened in their marriage, but none of the blame for how he chose to treat me.

Stop projecting your own issues onto the OP. If you're not over your issues then seek therapy.

OP, I'm hearing that you have a lot of anger over behavior your DD exhibited during your divorce. Blaming your DD, who was stuck in the middle of a nasty divorce and impossible situation, for behavior that it seems like your ex manipulated her into, is not fair to your kid. You have no idea the kind of poison she was being told about what would happen to her if she didn't bring her mom material to use in the divorce. She was probably scared that she would lose her relationship with her mother is she didn't comply with her (ridiculous) demands. You need to separate out your feelings about that behavior from your feelings about your DD.

The Facebook issue needs to be separate from the divorce stuff. Did you explicitly ask your DD if you could post the picture and get an affirmative reply? It may also be that she was fine with it until your ex saw it and made your DD feel guilty about it. Could you sit down and have a calm honest conversation with you DD and say "I'm sorry I posted that photo to FB when you did it want me to. I thought because I said xyz and you said abc you were okay with it, did I misinterpret the situation? Is it ever ok for me to post a photo of you/us, and should we come up with a system for you to 'vet' those pictures?". Listen more than you talk and hear what your kid has to say without judging or bringing up past issues.

I think it's important to respect her wishes re: posting online about her. It's different than bragging IRL to a friend, or showing them a picture on your phone or that you have framed at your desk---it exists forever now, despite your FB privacy settings. Allowing kids to set boundaries about how their image is used is part of teaching them bodily autonomy. We tell kids from an early age that they are in charge of their body and no one has the right to touch them w/o permission etc but than act like it's ridiculous when kids internalize that and ask to have control over the images of theirselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Double standards, OP. You are angry with her yet you don't see that she has a right to be angry with you? Gaslighting much? You carry on like this if you want to, but don't complain in the future when you are completely estranged from your daughter. Actions have consequences, and YOU started it, not her, not your wife.
No means no. That doesn't apply only to rape cases.

Ridiculous

Anonymous wrote:
I think the suggestion "don't drink and type" is in order here.

OP here.

I didn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

I don't post stuff my kids don't want me to post and...get this... I have all their passwords so they don't post things I don't want them to post.

Good checks and balances.

Why all the secrets? What are you doing that she records?

OP, don't post pictures of her. I stopped posting pics of my 17 year old years ago because he doesent want me to. My 12 year old is still OK with it.