Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Please no Saturday morning quarterbacking. Mason put in the WORK. They put in the time, energy and efforts and left no stone unturned. They looked at every varying factor any armchair researcher could imagine. And if you read the article closely enough, you'll realize that.

It's "interesting" to see people try to scramble for an excuse for racism. After all, YOU're not the one being treated unfairly.

The second there's research about (white) women earning less, no one starts wondering how many of those women work part-time, took off time to have babies, question their educational background and undergraduate major in relation to men, etc.

Give it a rest already and face your racism.

I believe some of you mean well but truly do not know how clueless you are or the depth of your own racism. Just because you don't burn crosses on lawns and have a friendly relationship with "the blacks" on your job doesn't mean you don't harbor deep-seated racism.

Oh so I'm a racist because the conclusions were aggregates and on average? Ok so out of the under 100 jobs open how many AA applicants have applied for Korean, Chinese, Japanese teaching positions?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/black-teacher-applicants-face-discrimination-in-a-wealthy-school-district-study-finds/2017/05/04/ea192b50-2a90-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.73545f6466ee&wpisrc=nl_buzz&wpmm=1

"The study asserts that racial bias in hiring may be contributing to the persistent dearth of black teachers in public education, a problem that has long been pinned on a lack of qualified applicants and interest."

To see evidence of bias each job type-specification - and applicants v hires has to be analyzed. Do you suggest FCPS gets rid of the classroom teachers who are in their 50's and 60's and hire only AA's? FCPS has some old teachers with decades in the system filling choice classroom teacher slots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Please no Saturday morning quarterbacking. Mason put in the WORK. They put in the time, energy and efforts and left no stone unturned. They looked at every varying factor any armchair researcher could imagine. And if you read the article closely enough, you'll realize that.

It's "interesting" to see people try to scramble for an excuse for racism. After all, YOU're not the one being treated unfairly.

The second there's research about (white) women earning less, no one starts wondering how many of those women work part-time, took off time to have babies, question their educational background and undergraduate major in relation to men, etc.

Give it a rest already and face your racism.

I believe some of you mean well but truly do not know how clueless you are or the depth of your own racism. Just because you don't burn crosses on lawns and have a friendly relationship with "the blacks" on your job doesn't mean you don't harbor deep-seated racism.

Eh. According to the article, the study was pretty superficial. It's hard to draw too many conclusions from it. Also, if teachers were overrepresented and black administrators underrepresented, would we draw the same conclusions or different ones?

It's not about over or underrepresentation.

It's about people being denied jobs because of their race. How do we know it's because of race? The better black candidates were denied jobs in favor of white ones.

Who cares about the percentage? Don't deny people jobs based on race! Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Please no Saturday morning quarterbacking. Mason put in the WORK. They put in the time, energy and efforts and left no stone unturned. They looked at every varying factor any armchair researcher could imagine. And if you read the article closely enough, you'll realize that.

It's "interesting" to see people try to scramble for an excuse for racism. After all, YOU're not the one being treated unfairly.

The second there's research about (white) women earning less, no one starts wondering how many of those women work part-time, took off time to have babies, question their educational background and undergraduate major in relation to men, etc.

Give it a rest already and face your racism.

I believe some of you mean well but truly do not know how clueless you are or the depth of your own racism. Just because you don't burn crosses on lawns and have a friendly relationship with "the blacks" on your job doesn't mean you don't harbor deep-seated racism.

Eh. According to the article, the study was pretty superficial. It's hard to draw too many conclusions from it. Also, if teachers were overrepresented and black administrators underrepresented, would we draw the same conclusions or different ones?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Absolutely not enough information to enable the reader to support the idea that there is rampant discrimination.

If the news is going to publish this type of accusation, they should certainly make the data more readily available. This raises far more questions than answers. PP brought up a point I had not considered: the applications for specific jobs. It would be much clearer if we could see the data by specific job. For example: the basic elementary classroom teacher. If we could compare applicants (including qualifications and test scores) it would yield much better information. It could be that the ratio was far more reasonable in the case of elementary classroom teachers--as opposed to foreign language teachers. We don't know because we do not have access to the information.

I would be interested to know if the WAPO reporter actually read the study.

In my graduate work in education, I was taught that you always look at the study itself to make your own conclusions.

Actually, there is enough information. You simply choose to see or believe it.

Many wonder how in the world Trump could've won the election with his racist, sexist, idiotic views and words. This is how. So many are unaware of hidden racism. Trump was smart enough to know this, which is why he ran on the campaign of "Make America Great Again"

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Please no Saturday morning quarterbacking. Mason put in the WORK. They put in the time, energy and efforts and left no stone unturned. They looked at every varying factor any armchair researcher could imagine. And if you read the article closely enough, you'll realize that.

It's "interesting" to see people try to scramble for an excuse for racism. After all, YOU're not the one being treated unfairly.

The second there's research about (white) women earning less, no one starts wondering how many of those women work part-time, took off time to have babies, question their educational background and undergraduate major in relation to men, etc.

Give it a rest already and face your racism.

I believe some of you mean well but truly do not know how clueless you are or the depth of your own racism. Just because you don't burn crosses on lawns and have a friendly relationship with "the blacks" on your job doesn't mean you don't harbor deep-seated racism.

Anonymous wrote:

The point is to hire the BEST person for the job. We can't hire based on the race of the school!!!!! Then you practice race-based hiring, which is WRONG for so many reasons. It's wrong legally, professionally, morally etc.

We live in a very diverse world. And THAT is what should be reflected in our schools--not racial and economic segregation. You can't claim to offer a world class education when your system does not reflect the world.

Not sure what you are saying here. You want the system to reflect the world, but you want the best teacher hired. It may not be the same thing.

And yeah, there are brilliant, awesome, intelligent, beautiful black people in the real world. Many are in the teaching profession. It's too bad a lot of insulated white kids won't grow up knowing that. Then, as adults they'll make ignorant claims like "a black person could not possibly be better. impossible!"

Anonymous wrote:

The point is to hire the BEST person for the job. We can't hire based on the race of the school!!!!! Then you practice race-based hiring, which is WRONG for so many reasons. It's wrong legally, professionally, morally etc.

We live in a very diverse world. And THAT is what should be reflected in our schools--not racial and economic segregation. You can't claim to offer a world class education when your system does not reflect the world.

Not sure what you are saying here. You want the system to reflect the world, but you want the best teacher hired. It may not be the same thing.

According to the research BETTER AA applicants were denied jobs in favor of Whites.

If the research showed that a bunch of loser, mediocre AAs were denied jobs over rockstar whites, there would be no problem.

Again, there's that assumption that a black person could not possibly be the better person for the job over a white person. That's the reason even white schools need black teachers. A lot of whites are sooo sadly clueless and are too ignorant to realize it.

Anonymous wrote:I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

Absolutely not enough information to enable the reader to support the idea that there is rampant discrimination.

If the news is going to publish this type of accusation, they should certainly make the data more readily available. This raises far more questions than answers. PP brought up a point I had not considered: the applications for specific jobs. It would be much clearer if we could see the data by specific job. For example: the basic elementary classroom teacher. If we could compare applicants (including qualifications and test scores) it would yield much better information. It could be that the ratio was far more reasonable in the case of elementary classroom teachers--as opposed to foreign language teachers. We don't know because we do not have access to the information.

I would be interested to know if the WAPO reporter actually read the study.

In my graduate work in education, I was taught that you always look at the study itself to make your own conclusions.

I posted the links to open FCPS jobs. There is no opportunity to read the study. The job openings are for specific subjects and age groups-elementary and secondary.

Here is the most info on the actual study available to the public:
http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-87-number-1/herarticle/where-are-all-the-black-teachers

The newspaper articles give us a total not data per position for applicants. The aggregate is only relevant if per position applications were the same. Now let's get rid of the foreign language teachers which are over 10% of the listings and add AA teachers and lower regular ed class size. How many AA applicants for sped, Italian, German, Korean, Chinese, Japanese?

The point is to hire the BEST person for the job. We can't hire based on the race of the school!!!!! Then you practice race-based hiring, which is WRONG for so many reasons. It's wrong legally, professionally, morally etc.

We live in a very diverse world. And THAT is what should be reflected in our schools--not racial and economic segregation. You can't claim to offer a world class education when your system does not reflect the world.

Not sure what you are saying here. You want the system to reflect the world, but you want the best teacher hired. It may not be the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Black teacher applicants face
discrimination

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/black-teacher-applicants-face-discrimination-in-a-wealthy-school-district-study-finds/2017/05/04/ea192b50-2a90-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.53e91da1fec2&wpisrc=nl_buzz&wpmm=1


DS attend a FCPS graduated in 2012. Beside Gym class he didn't have an AA teacher till Freshman year in High School. Why is FCPS doing this?

You know what? Now that I think of it, there is only one AA teacher at my children's school. ONE! My daughter had her in first grade and she a fantastic (and very well liked) teacher.

What is the percentage of AA students? Does the % line up with the % of AA teachers in the building?

The point is to hire the BEST person for the job. We can't hire based on the race of the school!!!!! Then you practice race-based hiring, which is WRONG for so many reasons. It's wrong legally, professionally, morally etc.

We live in a very diverse world. And THAT is what should be reflected in our schools--not racial and economic segregation. You can't claim to offer a world class education when your system does not reflect the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the article, black teachers are underrepresented and black administrators are overrepresented. Since principals have absolute authority over hiring teachers in their schools, there could be bias at the individual school/principal level. The difference between underrepresentation and normal representation is only a couple percentage points, so it could just be coming down to the applicants to the particular schools, rather than solely due to bias.

Taking hiring authority away from principals may solve that problem but would definitely create others. Interesting study with interesting results.

This has been our experience in McLean where 2 of the four schools my DCs attended had AA Principals ( AP was AA in a third) and the cluster head was AA, but virtually all of the teachers were white and prodominantly female.

And at FCPS schools what is the age of the staff? Any spreadsheets on that per school along with race, sex, length of service? The salary scales have a lower amount at hiring for those with less experience and without masters:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY17-194day-teacher.pdf

Now if you are a parent with a kid [education career pending]in college don't pay the tuition in full- "individuals who teach full-time for five complete, consecutive academic years in certain elementary schools, secondary schools, and educational service agencies that serve low-income families and who meet other qualifications may be eligible for loan forgiveness through the U.S. Education Department’s (USED) Federal Student Aid program. " I know people whose kids are in military [damn should have done ROTC] or teaching and paid tuition and there are no go backs on that money.

Above from jobs listing at https://www.fcps.edu/careers/career-opportunities/instructional The jobs for teachers are less than 100 in this massive school division. Many are foreign language teachers inc MS Italian, Korean Immersion [when did that get funding?], Chinese. Very few elementary classroom teacher openings.

Anonymous wrote:Our FCPS staff (mostly) grew up attending FCPS, went off to UVA or other Va college were they got their teaching degree, and returned to FCPS to teach. Boring. A whole bunch of the same. The fact that, in positions to hire, they would hire the same shouldn't be a surprise. I find the environment very insular but not having anything to do particularly with race.

Well, that's your personal experience, which is to be respected.

But the study is much larger than your individual experience. It reveals a systemic issue with FX. A really, really bad issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Black teacher applicants face
discrimination

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/black-teacher-applicants-face-discrimination-in-a-wealthy-school-district-study-finds/2017/05/04/ea192b50-2a90-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.53e91da1fec2&wpisrc=nl_buzz&wpmm=1


DS attend a FCPS graduated in 2012. Beside Gym class he didn't have an AA teacher till Freshman year in High School. Why is FCPS doing this?

You know what? Now that I think of it, there is only one AA teacher at my children's school. ONE! My daughter had her in first grade and she a fantastic (and very well liked) teacher.

What is the percentage of AA students? Does the % line up with the % of AA teachers in the building?

Our FCPS staff (mostly) grew up attending FCPS, went off to UVA or other Va college were they got their teaching degree, and returned to FCPS to teach. Boring. A whole bunch of the same. The fact that, in positions to hire, they would hire the same shouldn't be a surprise. I find the environment very insular but not having anything to do particularly with race.