Anonymous wrote:In this thread: Women saying of course their husband can have solo drinks with/hang out in hotel rooms with/perform amateur pap smears on other women, he'd NEVER cheat!

In every other thread: Men saying that their wives don't put out enough and they're itching to cheat, if they haven't already.

In other threads here where a woman says "my husband went out for drinks with a female colleague, do you think it's innocent? - they work at the office all day then go out together....". the DCUM. advice is to divorce him already because he's cheating....

Glad to know you all are ok with me dating, dining and drinking with your husband after work. Eases my conscience a lot.

Absolutely not

If it's a "new friend" it's not right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH has quite a few female friends from before I met him when he was in grad school. These are long term friendships that have never been romantic. I have no problem with him going out to drinks and/or dinner with them when they're in town. These are the only women he ever goes out to dinner/drinks with, all his other friends are men. I'm not going to police his behavior, I'm fairly certain he won't cheat and if he does, he knows what the consequences will be.

As a woman with a number of guy friends from college, I want to say: THANK YOU. These relationships are about as platonic as it gets between the opposite genders, and to me the guys are really like brothers. I'm not saying don't bring up something specific if it bothers you, but having had exes who became exes because they suspected my guy friends, I can say acting this way just makes the accuser look ridiculous. Having said all that, we all know each other's spouses and hang out in groups and the spouses are always more than welcome (and for the most part we all get along well).

Eh, you might think they're platonic. It's possible they're only platonic because you that boundary. I say that as someone who thought like you until I realized a guy I was friends with and thought our relationship was "as platonic as it gets" actually wanted more. This is someone I knew for years. It kind of ruined the friendship because, once I realized he wanted more (or was up for more), it changed the way I saw the time I spent with him. My husband trusted me, so that was never an issue. But my husband did tell me that he thinks a lot of women are woefully naive about their "guy friends." The topic came up with some of our friends (guy friends that both my husband and I know), and they all admitted to having female friends (friends they've known for years) who they'd totally sleep with if they thought the opportunity was there or that the friend was open to it. But they all said that they never tried anything or even hinted because they always got the vibe that the female friend wasn't into them in that way.

But I think that exposes one of the issues with platonic relationships. Often they are unbalanced. And while one person may see it as completely platonic, that doesn't mean the other person doesn't have a physical attraction.

None of that is to say that women and men shouldn't be friends and maintain those friendships after getting married. But I think it's helpful to not be naive about the possibilities and the danger zones. That helps to establish boundaries and to understand where and in what circumstances there may be vulnerabilities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works mainly with women (he's a writer) and goes out to lunch with his colleagues one on one and in groups in which he's the only man all the time. I work mainly with men (I'm an attorney) and go out to lunch with male colleagues all the time.

If I decided that I couldn't eat alone with men I would have torpedoed my career as a law student. Such an attitude is unbelievably privileged to me. To have the ability to declare that you will never eat alone with a member of the opposite sex? Wow. I wish I had the luxury of telling my bosses that. I believe the entire Price Waterhouse sex discrimination case (back in the 80's) was about the fact that career contacts are not just made in the office, they are made in social contexts as well.

This is pretty much our situation, albeit with different jobs. I work for a large defense firm. I'm alone with male collegues all the time--and often on business trips. I would be VERY angry if one of them told me he couldn't eat dinner with me because his wife wouldn't allow it. In fact, I think that might be an HR discussion.

Anyway, I generally only socialize in the work sense without my husband and vice versa, but it's definitely a gray area since it sometimes includes dinners, happy hours, charity functions, etc.

Huh? I agree that it's kind of extreme for someone to not participate in work-related events for that reason. But I don't see how HR could compel someone to have dinner with you. There's no obligation for an employee to have a one-on-one meal with another employee.

Refusing to be in your presence alone based on your gender while on work assignmnets? Perhaps it depends on where you work, but at my company you can't just say that, especially if you are the boss--you either eat dinner with everyone or noone. You can't pick and choose.

"Gee, I'm sorry, my xxxxx doesn't want me to have dinner with African-Americans/Men/etc". That doesn't really work.

I said I can see if it's a work-related dinner. But if you are just traveling for work and the dinner itself isn't part of the work event, then, no, HR can't make you have dinner with someone. Example: Susy and Johnny are both sent to a convention. They have some business lunches planned, but they are free to do whatever they want for dinner. If Johnny doesn't want to eat dinner with Susy and have drinks, then that's his own business.

That's what the PP was talking about, being on a business trip and suggesting she'd be irritated if her coworker didn't want to have dinner with her.

Anonymous wrote:I'm OK with it because my DH has to be OK with my dining alone with other men. It's part of business. I often have to have breakfast, lunch or dinner with clients and I can't pick their gender. I have been hit on by potential males clients who instantly become ex-potential clients. Very early in my career (late 80's) I was hit on by a couple of higher ups in the company I worked for (ala Bill O'Reilly) and that was really creepy. Back then there was no HR process to really deal with it so I just politely said thanks but no thanks I'm happily married. I didn't stick around very long! I did ask my DH if he had ever been hit on by a female at dinner and he laughingly said "other than you, sadly, no!" FWIW, we were once co-workers and I did hit on him at lunch one day and we have been together ever since!

I don't have to meet with clients for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but in past jobs, I was heavily hit on by men at work. For a while I wondered if men are just creeps, but I have seen in past jobs how some women indulge it. They may not do anything physical, but they definitely indulge the flirting. Sadly, I've seen how this has helped them professionally. I put up my guard and don't indulge flirting. I am not hostile, but I shut that stuff down really fast. In some ways, I think it has hurt me professionally. The flirting for some women was an entry into the "boys' club" and was really the only entry in for a woman.

In one past job, I went to a professional convention, and it was astonishing how much hooking up went on.

Sadly, I think that stuff happens a lot. But the solution isn't to restrict your spouse from one-on-one meetings with members of the opposite sex.

Anonymous wrote:DH has quite a few female friends from before I met him when he was in grad school. These are long term friendships that have never been romantic. I have no problem with him going out to drinks and/or dinner with them when they're in town. These are the only women he ever goes out to dinner/drinks with, all his other friends are men. I'm not going to police his behavior, I'm fairly certain he won't cheat and if he does, he knows what the consequences will be.

As a woman with a number of guy friends from college, I want to say: THANK YOU. These relationships are about as platonic as it gets between the opposite genders, and to me the guys are really like brothers. I'm not saying don't bring up something specific if it bothers you, but having had exes who became exes because they suspected my guy friends, I can say acting this way just makes the accuser look ridiculous. Having said all that, we all know each other's spouses and hang out in groups and the spouses are always more than welcome (and for the most part we all get along well).

Anonymous wrote:I travel semi-frequently for work doing communications, often with men. We have breakfast and dinner 1:1 and on some occasions we need to use a hotel room to conduct an interview in a quiet space. Nothing untoward has ever happened. People are going to cheat or they are not going to cheat -- meals and proximity of a bed have nothing to do with it. Just see all the stories on here of people having sex in cars and empty stairwells (!) in the office...

Totally ridiculous. I would be at a huge disadvantage in my job if my bosses or I subscribed to this theory.

While I think the Pence rule is extreme and is based on a backwards notion of female sexuality, I also think your statement is naive. There are a lot of people who wouldn't normally cheat but if presented with an opportunity (meaning it's easy to do it and highly unlikely they will ever be found out), there are people who would go along with it. Sad to say, but it's true. I've known men and women like that. They would never look for ways to cheat and think they would never cheat, but if they are in a situation where they can easily have a one-off and then no one ever knows, they don't necessarily have the moral fortitude to say no.

But that has nothing to do with female sexuality or women being "temptresses" (as I suspect Pence's rule is based on). That has more to do with the reality that a lot of people not really have a strong sense of doing the right thing, even when they can easily get away with doing the wrong thing.

This doesn't just relate to infidelity in marriage. There is a sociologist who has conducted studies on this, and it also relates to cheating on tests or even stealing.

It's sad, but true.

I think the key is, though, not about policing your spouse's action but choosing a spouse who puts a really high value on ethical as an in and off itself. So the hints are if your potential spouse is okay with casual lying out of convenience or if your potential spouse ever says "eh, no one will ever know" in response to doing something that might be just a little bit wrong. That kind of attitude is generally a red flag that even if the person doesn't look to cheat, they wouldn't hold up well if an easy opportunity presents itself.

My husband and I talked about this the other night. We had never discussed it before, but we both are relatively conservative when it comes to our marriage. Neither of us said we would want to have dinner w someone of the opposite sex alone, and neither of us would feel comfortable with the other one doing it. I can see how others might think it's fine, we just think it's inappropriate. We trust each other, but it's just not worth it.

I always feel really prude about everything now that we're married, so I'm actually comforted to know that other people have similar feelings.

DH has quite a few female friends from before I met him when he was in grad school. These are long term friendships that have never been romantic. I have no problem with him going out to drinks and/or dinner with them when they're in town. These are the only women he ever goes out to dinner/drinks with, all his other friends are men. I'm not going to police his behavior, I'm fairly certain he won't cheat and if he does, he knows what the consequences will be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine said she had THE best marriage, bar none. Interdependent, respectful, loving, trusting, amazing, room to grow, all the things everyone wants, needs, envies ...

He traveled a lot for his job and actively chased every skirt he saw, was on Ashley Madison, Backpage, Craigslist trolling for p***y. He couldn't get enough. It literally destroyed his wife. And she took all his shit. He also lost his cushy job.

Drinking and dining do not make a cheating heart. But it can lead to things. NOT WORTH IT EVER.

My husband won't go to dinner with people he works with. He also doesn't drink. He says it's bad enough he works with them, he doesn't want to spend his free time with any of them.

Your husband doth protest too much.

Seriously? I know plent of people- male, female, married, single- who don't want to spend their free time w their coworkers.

I'm not especially comfortable with my husband going out "drinking and dining" alone with other women. It would depend on the context- work colleague, do I know the other woman, have they been friends for a long time, are we mutual friends, is there history?

There's trust and then there's being naive-- I think a DH who meets a woman while he is married/committed, decides they are "friends" and he's going drinking and dining with them alone (even a work colleague, if it's not work related)...that right there is a reason to be suspicious.

Don't marry someone you don't trust, and don't stay with someone who doesn't act in ways that promote trust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine said she had THE best marriage, bar none. Interdependent, respectful, loving, trusting, amazing, room to grow, all the things everyone wants, needs, envies ...

He traveled a lot for his job and actively chased every skirt he saw, was on Ashley Madison, Backpage, Craigslist trolling for p***y. He couldn't get enough. It literally destroyed his wife. And she took all his shit. He also lost his cushy job.

Drinking and dining do not make a cheating heart. But it can lead to things. NOT WORTH IT EVER.

My husband won't go to dinner with people he works with. He also doesn't drink. He says it's bad enough he works with them, he doesn't want to spend his free time with any of them.

Your husband doth protest too much.

Many wives on this thread doth protest too much.

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine said she had THE best marriage, bar none. Interdependent, respectful, loving, trusting, amazing, room to grow, all the things everyone wants, needs, envies ...

He traveled a lot for his job and actively chased every skirt he saw, was on Ashley Madison, Backpage, Craigslist trolling for p***y. He couldn't get enough. It literally destroyed his wife. And she took all his shit. He also lost his cushy job.

Drinking and dining do not make a cheating heart. But it can lead to things. NOT WORTH IT EVER.

My husband won't go to dinner with people he works with. He also doesn't drink. He says it's bad enough he works with them, he doesn't want to spend his free time with any of them.

Your husband doth protest too much.

A friend of mine said she had THE best marriage, bar none. Interdependent, respectful, loving, trusting, amazing, room to grow, all the things everyone wants, needs, envies ...

He traveled a lot for his job and actively chased every skirt he saw, was on Ashley Madison, Backpage, Craigslist trolling for p***y. He couldn't get enough. It literally destroyed his wife. And she took all his shit. He also lost his cushy job.

Drinking and dining do not make a cheating heart. But it can lead to things. NOT WORTH IT EVER.

My husband won't go to dinner with people he works with. He also doesn't drink. He says it's bad enough he works with them, he doesn't want to spend his free time with any of them.